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lehighline posted:

Unfortunately, zinc pest is a lot more common than most people think. The problem is related to specific batches of zinc alloy that get contaminated with lead. Most US and European white metal casters figured this out back in the 1930s. By 1950, much of the problem had disappeared. It returned when manufacturing went overseas. At this point, I think the small mom and pop Chinese foundries are the most likely source of the problem, as they scrounge whatever they can find and throw it in the pot. There is no QC on the melt, so who knows what is in it. Too much lead, and the time bomb starts ticking. It's not a matter of if, but when. And the issue is not specific to a particular brand. MTH, Lionel, Weaver, Atlas, K-Line, they all have it to some degree or another. Until the brands get together and tell the foundries they need to produce quality melt, and show proof that they are in fact producing quality melt, the problem will continue. Unfortunately, the "proof" part costs money and requires expertise which may be unavailable to the foundries.

 

Chris

LVHR

"using 99.99% pure zinc metal to avoid the problem, and articles made after 1960 are usually considered free of the risk of zinc pest since the use of purer materials and more controlled manufacturing conditions make zinc pest degradation unlikely."

Chris is absolutely correct here, this disappeared in the 1960s only to reappear in an unregulated manufacturing environment overseas.

 steve

Ron H posted:

It doesn't really matter as there will be little interest in trains from the youngsters.

Same thing on muscle cars of the 60s and 70s. Even the Shelbys are leveling out.

80's and 90's cars are going up in value, especially exotics. Game systems and toys from the same time period are as well. "Younger" people are interested in things from when they were young. It's the same for every generation. In 20 years I'll be able to buy 60's muscle cars on the cheap, which will be great for me.

Never worry about the future value of hobby items. Enjoy them for the value they bring to you, and nothing more.

Bill T posted:
Dennis Rempel posted:

I'd be just as concerned that current trends is that a $1,200 engine is going for $300 in 10 years on eBay.

Most 10 year old cars take a pretty good hit also.

   Bill T.

I certainly agree with this one and I'd also say 'pretty good hit' is an understatement! I've been looking at new cars again...I do this every couple of years. My 11 year old Ford looks much better after each outing or internet pricing. 

Last edited by rtr12
Choo Choo Charlie posted:

If the zinc pest is indeed caused by the lead being out of specification or they do not have the proper specification, the problem is the manufacturer.  Apple and Google sell $600- $1000 smart phones with much tighter specifications that are made in the same foreign countries without these kinds of problems with quality, so the train manufactures can make quality trains too.  They just do not care to make the effort to buy zinc that meets a tight lead specification and to test each batch as to whether it meets specification because we keep buying them.

I would not buy trains from these poor quality manufacturers.  We need to develop a list of the trains models and their manufacturers and start a Bad Quality Trains post on this forum.  It is ridicules to put up with poor quality $600 plus engines and other trains (or any train gear regardless of cost).  We need to call attention to the problem and force them make model trains that meet their quality specifications.

Charlie

With respect, this is a very simplistic view.  For anyone who manufactures overseas, especially in China, there's a whol lot more to it.  I worked for the premier power generation equipment company for many years. Despite setting up factories in China with work processes, manufacturing protocols, work instructions, and hand-picked supervisors and directors, daily calls, and so on, the only time things were made correctly and shipped on time was when we sent our domestic folks over to the factories to implement and oversee everything.  Boots on the ground for extended periods. And the cost that goes with that, including salary enhancements, bonuses, living expenses, monthly return trips to visit family, and most everything else, including meals, hotels, cars, etc all going on expense reports.  For a relatively tiny company like Lionel or any other tiny toy train manufacturer, I couldn't imagine this type of expenditure.  Presumably, they've figured out a better model for their needs.  

Dennis Holler posted:

Its any consumer good. They are all junk. 2005 bought a 55” hitachi plasma tv, like $4200 then  beautiful tv loved he picture . It lasted about 5 years. Board failure...

So to me it’s all junk. If a high volume  everyday item like a tv can’t last 5 years why on earth would you think a train would? No offense, but seriously?

 

ps, I love prewR and postwar and I agree they are indestructable!

Dennis,

  All good points. Here is your solution...All you need to do is find a Prewar TV somewhere!  

Tom 

Ray Lombardo posted:

The amount of whining on this forum is ridiculous.  Some of you guys should just try eating prunes regularly.  

 I hope that some of you that are constantly unhappy can find a way to rediscover enjoyment in this hobby, or in another hobby.  Life is too short to constantly complain about such trivial things.  

 

 

Great post. I totally agree. But it's a fair point to expect a $1000 - $2000 toy to be very well made.  

MNCW posted:
Dennis Holler posted:

Its any consumer good. They are all junk. 2005 bought a 55” hitachi plasma tv, like $4200 then  beautiful tv loved he picture . It lasted about 5 years. Board failure...

So to me it’s all junk. If a high volume  everyday item like a tv can’t last 5 years why on earth would you think a train would? No offense, but seriously?

 

ps, I love prewR and postwar and I agree they are indestructable!

Dennis,

  All good points. Here is your solution...All you need to do is find a Prewar TV somewhere!  

Tom 

Apparently there were about 7000 TV set manufactured in the US before WWII.  I am sure there are a few out there somewhere that are operating.  As to 21st. Century toy locomotives heavily laden with electronics operating 50 years from now, that remains to be seen.  My 671 from 1952, absolutely.

Bill DeBrooke posted:
MNCW posted:
Dennis Holler posted:

Its any consumer good. They are all junk. 2005 bought a 55” hitachi plasma tv, like $4200 then  beautiful tv loved he picture . It lasted about 5 years. Board failure...

So to me it’s all junk. If a high volume  everyday item like a tv can’t last 5 years why on earth would you think a train would? No offense, but seriously?

 

ps, I love prewR and postwar and I agree they are indestructable!

Dennis,

  All good points. Here is your solution...All you need to do is find a Prewar TV somewhere!  

Tom 

Apparently there were about 7000 TV set manufactured in the US before WWII.  I am sure there are a few out there somewhere that are operating.  As to 21st. Century toy locomotives heavily laden with electronics operating 50 years from now, that remains to be seen.  My 671 from 1952, absolutely.

As is my 262 with 262T from 1931/32 still doing well.

I'd rather be ice fishing posted:

My Allegheny was built in the 1990s and lionel had no replacement parts for me nor did they seem overly concerned with my plight.  I ended up moneying my way out of it by buying a whole tender shell with good doors from a helpful dealers NOS and I got the impression that was the last one on earth.  It was not cheap either..Lionel made no effort to help me with some doors from their newer Alleghenies stating the ones they had were being saved for warrantees.  So no love from lionel to me..

Bryan,  

In reading your orginal post on the topic a few months

ago,https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/help-my-allegheny-doors-are-broken

you stated you bought a used Lionel 6-38081 C&O 2-6-6-6 Alleghenny Steam engine. It looks like it was catalogued in 2006, so you are right it is about 12 or so years old.   I would think your issue is more with the person that sold you the engine, especially if this was some type of well know or documented issue.  The engine is long out of warranty, so putting this all on Lionel is not right, since one of the posters noted that they were albe to get replacement parts earlier this year.  For an engine that was 12 years old, that not too bad. 

Hatches

 I can't tell from your post if this was a just a cosmetic issue or an operational issue that makes it impossible to run.  

Lastly, you have done a great service to identify this issue, since I suspect that there could be a lot of these engines that were run a few times and then put back in the box and not looked at in a decade, so the owners don't know they have this problem, also anyone considering buying one should take notice and make sure that the issue is factored into the final purchase price.

I hope you consider changing the title of your post to reflect the fact that this is not just a Lionel issue,  I had an issues with some MTH trucks a few years ago and never with a Lionel product.  

Brewman1973 posted:
I'd rather be ice fishing posted:

My Allegheny was built in the 1990s and lionel had no replacement parts for me nor did they seem overly concerned with my plight.  I ended up moneying my way out of it by buying a whole tender shell with good doors from a helpful dealers NOS and I got the impression that was the last one on earth.  It was not cheap either..Lionel made no effort to help me with some doors from their newer Alleghenies stating the ones they had were being saved for warrantees.  So no love from lionel to me..

Bryan,  

In reading your orginal post on the topic a few months

ago,https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/help-my-allegheny-doors-are-broken

you stated you bought a used Lionel 6-38081 C&O 2-6-6-6 Alleghenny Steam engine. It looks like it was catalogued in 2006, so you are right it is about 12 or so years old.   I would think your issue is more with the person that sold you the engine, especially if this was some type of well know or documented issue.  The engine is long out of warranty, so putting this all on Lionel is not right, since one of the posters noted that they were albe to get replacement parts earlier this year.  For an engine that was 12 years old, that not too bad. 

Hatches

 I can't tell from your post if this was a just a cosmetic issue or an operational issue that makes it impossible to run.  

Lastly, you have done a great service to identify this issue, since I suspect that there could be a lot of these engines that were run a few times and then put back in the box and not looked at in a decade, so the owners don't know they have this problem, also anyone considering buying one should take notice and make sure that the issue is factored into the final purchase price.

I hope you consider changing the title of your post to reflect the fact that this is not just a Lionel issue,  I had an issues with some MTH trucks a few years ago and never with a Lionel product.  

I think its odd that people want me to change the title of this thread.  The only thing I can write about is what I know with my first experience with a used lionel product....and what I know is that I bought an old engine that I thought would be solid as far as the body,  ( I had little expectations from the electronics).  I cant blame the seller,  it was untouched in box and doors did not break until I opened them. 

  Despite what the original helpful poster experienced  doors are no longer available from lionel and that is the whole problem to me.  Keep in mind I don't know o-scale and im learning parts are not available like I thought they would be.  Which amazes me considering how much these cost.  How can you say this is not on lionel?  None of my old corgis have fallen apart from zinc rot...im now watching the front steam tubes doing something bad as the paint is cracking up on them.  So if its ok that an expensive engine like this is a allowed to crumble into dust after 12 years count me out of any future lionel engines..if its a fluke well then that's ok. I started this with a legitimate question on whether anyone would likely be making any parts for these in future as I don't know this scale well at all.  I did get some good answers on this forum and I think it brought out a lot of strong feelings from some people and a few dismissive unhelpful comments from others.  I do appreciate the knowledge I have gained from this posting.

How about posting a picture of the broken parts? You may find a similar item made for another engine at Lionel's or MTH's website. You may be able to get them in brass from Precision Scale or Stevenson Preservation. Or they may be able to be fabricated from brass stock. Lastly they may be able to be 3D printed. 

There are still folks who build engines from scratch. This is not the apocalypse that some make it out to be.

Pete

 

 

 

Last edited by Norton

Zinc rot is not that common.  Does it still occur?  Yes is does.  You happen to get an engine with rot - just bad luck.  If you were to look at all the engines produced in the modern era (and mostly over seas), the majority are free from rot.  When it does happen, it is frustrating.  I've been collecting/operating Lionel trains since the 70s.  In all that time, I had to replace one set of trucks on a freight car due to rot, and now I have a JLC GG-1 with rotted truck frames. 

Will someone be making parts for these engines in future to get them running?  Hard to say.  Today's engines are more detailed and are unique.  In the postwar years, a lot of parts were common across the line and production numbers were higher for each run.  Part dealers can make out better casting replacement parts for postwar because there is a higher demand.  Casting parts for today's more specific and low production run parts may not happen because there is little return on investment.

Technology is our best bet.  With the introduction of 3D printers (metal and plastic) it may become affordable for part dealers to print replacement parts.  This technology is still in its infancy.  But I can see, as this technology develops, a user could scan in a good version of the part and then have the 3D printer print a replacement.  I think this is our best bet.  Then part dealers only have to invest in the tech which works for all parts.

In the meantime, save the engine for a future repair, sell it for parts, or be creative and make up something so it can still run.  Maybe you can find a junker version and salvage the parts.  I would not let one bad engine ruin the hobby.  There are a lot of great engines/cars/accessories out there just waiting for you to enjoy them. 

Just out of curiosity, do any of the other scales HO, S, and N have problems like this? My good friend and neighbor who is moving this week and had a sale on his HO equipment and was at one time into O scale when asked if he ever had any electronic or zinc problems in his 15 years of HO modeling, said he never had any problems as he read and followed on Forums. His layout was in the garage with only a fan to cool him when operating.

I'd rather be ice fishing posted:
 

  Despite what the original helpful poster experienced  doors are no longer available from lionel and that is the whole problem to me.  Keep in mind I don't know o-scale and im learning parts are not available like I thought they would be.  Which amazes me considering how much these cost.  How can you say this is not on lionel?  None of my old corgis have fallen apart from zinc rot...im now watching the front steam tubes doing something bad as the paint is cracking up on them.  So if its ok that an expensive engine like this is a allowed to crumble into dust after 12 years count me out of any future lionel engines..if its a fluke well then that's ok. I started this with a legitimate question on whether anyone would likely be making any parts for these in future as I don't know this scale well at all.  I did get some good answers on this forum and I think it brought out a lot of strong feelings from some people and a few dismissive unhelpful comments from others.  I do appreciate the knowledge I have gained from this posting.

Bryan,

  Sorry that you had a bad experience. All that I can share is that I have several prewar Lionel locomotives that are around 80 years old and none of them show signs of zinc rot. Most of them had problems with wiring that needed to be replaced, but that's about it. I know lots of people like the technology of today, but there's something to be said for simplicity and things that you can (usually) repair yourself. Also, with proper maintenance the prewar locomotives can easily last another 80 years...just saying all of this that if you are not too far along with modern stuff you may want to look into prewar or postwar...most of it is pretty indestructible.  

Tom 

I'd rather be ice fishing posted:

  None of my old corgis have fallen apart from zinc rot...

I started typing "Corgi..." into Google and one of the first autocomplete entries that popped up was "corgi zinc rot"

Google images showed at least a dozen photos of similarly affected diecast model vehicles and planes, and discussion about them abounds.

Here's a thread with over 100 replies on an aircraft model forum, which was itself apparently spawned by an older discussion on the same site.

Soooo. some people do win the unlucky lottery anytime they collect diecast anything...

---PCJ

(one K-Line trailer, a couple of K-line trucks (replaced) and some MTH Amfleet couplers (also replaced), so far)

MNCW posted:
Dennis Holler posted:

Its any consumer good. They are all junk. 2005 bought a 55” hitachi plasma tv, like $4200 then  beautiful tv loved he picture . It lasted about 5 years. Board failure...

So to me it’s all junk. If a high volume  everyday item like a tv can’t last 5 years why on earth would you think a train would? No offense, but seriously?

 

ps, I love prewR and postwar and I agree they are indestructable!

Dennis,

  All good points. Here is your solution...All you need to do is find a Prewar TV somewhere!  

Tom 

I dig tubes Tom, I have a couple of tube console stereo's and think it would be cool to find one of the late 50's console combo stereo/Color TV's by RCA or similar.  They are still out there and usually need some work, but it is all doable.  That would be fun.

Dennis Holler posted:
MNCW posted:
Dennis Holler posted:

Its any consumer good. They are all junk. 2005 bought a 55” hitachi plasma tv, like $4200 then  beautiful tv loved he picture . It lasted about 5 years. Board failure...

So to me it’s all junk. If a high volume  everyday item like a tv can’t last 5 years why on earth would you think a train would? No offense, but seriously?

 

ps, I love prewR and postwar and I agree they are indestructable!

Dennis,

  All good points. Here is your solution...All you need to do is find a Prewar TV somewhere!  

Tom 

I dig tubes Tom, I have a couple of tube console stereo's and think it would be cool to find one of the late 50's console combo stereo/Color TV's by RCA or similar.  They are still out there and usually need some work, but it is all doable.  That would be fun.

Dennis,

Somehow, I thought you would say something like that. Good for you. 

Tom 

josef posted:

Just out of curiosity, do any of the other scales HO, S, and N have problems like this? My good friend and neighbor who is moving this week and had a sale on his HO equipment and was at one time into O scale when asked if he ever had any electronic or zinc problems in his 15 years of HO modeling, said he never had any problems as he read and followed on Forums. His layout was in the garage with only a fan to cool him when operating.

I had a couple of 1970's era Athearn locomotives with zinc rot on their frames, along with a late 1960's Lindberg SW1.

Rusty

RailRide posted:
I'd rather be ice fishing posted:

  None of my old corgis have fallen apart from zinc rot...

I started typing "Corgi..." into Google and one of the first autocomplete entries that popped up was "corgi zinc rot"

Google images showed at least a dozen photos of similarly affected diecast model vehicles and planes, and discussion about them abounds.

Here's a thread with over 100 replies on an aircraft model forum, which was itself apparently spawned by an older discussion on the same site.

Soooo. some people do win the unlucky lottery anytime they collect diecast anything...

---PCJ

(one K-Line trailer, a couple of K-line trucks (replaced) and some MTH Amfleet couplers (also replaced), so far)

This is interesting. I notice the posts are about the "big bird" company which I am not familiar with.  I have collected corgi since 2000 when they started the military planes and I have collected and sold around 1000 planes and tanks on ebay since then and none of them have had zinc rot problems (I know corgi bounces from factory to factory in their productions) I don't feel the need to hold corgi up as a great company just that since dealing with the products I learned to trust diecast metal as something lasting and solid.  same for n scale ive been a casual collector since I was a kid and never seen zinc rot in my limited experience with atlas and kato. I have maybe 20-30 engines (never counted them) when I have had running problems with atlas they have always fixed them for me without a fuss. just my experience.  I thought zinc rot was for very old things so this is a new surprise for me.  I do feel reassured by the many statements that my Allegheny is the exception and not the rule...I did google corgi zinc rot and saw some corgis..it looks like certain models are affected so ive been lucky with the planes..

Last edited by I'd rather be ice fishing
Norton posted:

How about posting a picture of the broken parts? You may find a similar item made for another engine at Lionel's or MTH's website. You may be able to get them in brass from Precision Scale or Stevenson Preservation. Or they may be able to be fabricated from brass stock. Lastly they may be able to be 3D printed. 

There are still folks who build engines from scratch. This is not the apocalypse that some make it out to be.

Pete

 

 

 

Pete said it best, don't let a couple broken parts ruin the hobby for you! Part of the hobby (at least to some of us) is repairing, rebuilding, modifying, or IMPROVING what the manufactures made....The satisfaction will come to you when YOU (the OP) fixed it when 1. there are no repair parts available, or 2. you made it better than the factory ever could. that's when you can enjoy your trains! 

harmonyards posted:
Norton posted:

How about posting a picture of the broken parts? You may find a similar item made for another engine at Lionel's or MTH's website. You may be able to get them in brass from Precision Scale or Stevenson Preservation. Or they may be able to be fabricated from brass stock. Lastly they may be able to be 3D printed. 

There are still folks who build engines from scratch. This is not the apocalypse that some make it out to be.

Pete

 

 

 

Pete said it best, don't let a couple broken parts ruin the hobby for you! Part of the hobby (at least to some of us) is repairing, rebuilding, modifying, or IMPROVING what the manufactures made....The satisfaction will come to you when YOU (the OP) fixed it when 1. there are no repair parts available, or 2. you made it better than the factory ever could. that's when you can enjoy your trains! 

I understand your sentiment and when it was looking like there was no other option I was youtubing how to make brass hinges and doors and that would have been a stretch for me but I was going to try.  Then I ran across the whole tender and jumped on it as I like to keep things original when I can (I have a collectors mindset which I realize "runners of equipment" wont understand.  My whole thing after finding parts being scarce was the idea that with so many small detail parts on it I don't dare run it unless I declare it a "runner" as I know the sliding steam pipe would instantly break if I ran it.  I realize this forum is Model railroading and not model railroad collector but that is my current mindset...I do think I am understanding the attraction to post war trains more after this experience...and yes I would probably enjoy my trains more if I ran them and broke them as opposed to looking at them behind glass...im working on that.

I'd rather be ice fishing posted:
RailRide posted:
I'd rather be ice fishing posted:

  None of my old corgis have fallen apart from zinc rot...

I started typing "Corgi..." into Google and one of the first autocomplete entries that popped up was "corgi zinc rot"

Google images showed at least a dozen photos of similarly affected diecast model vehicles and planes, and discussion about them abounds.

Here's a thread with over 100 replies on an aircraft model forum, which was itself apparently spawned by an older discussion on the same site.

Soooo. some people do win the unlucky lottery anytime they collect diecast anything...

---PCJ

(one K-Line trailer, a couple of K-line trucks (replaced) and some MTH Amfleet couplers (also replaced), so far)

This is interesting. I notice the posts are about the "big bird" company which I am not familiar with.  I have collected corgi since 2000 when they started the military planes and I have collected and sold around 1000 planes and tanks on ebay since then and none of them have had zinc rot problems (I know corgi bounces from factory to factory in their productions) I don't feel the need to hold corgi up as a great company just that since dealing with the products I learned to trust diecast metal as something lasting and solid.  same for n scale ive been a casual collector since I was a kid and never seen zinc rot in my limited experience with atlas and kato. I have maybe 20-30 engines (never counted them) when I have had running problems with atlas they have always fixed them for me without a fuss. just my experience.  I thought zinc rot was for very old things so this is a new surprise for me.  I do feel reassured by the many statements that my Allegheny is the exception and not the rule...I did google corgi zinc rot and saw some corgis..it looks like certain models are affected so ive been lucky with the planes..

 

This still looks great and with a little weathering the vehicle would be a start for a junk/scrap yard. Maybe any old zinc rot loco could be added as well,

Last edited by RonH
Choo Choo Charlie posted:

 Apple and Google sell $600- $1000 smart phones with much tighter specifications that are made in the same foreign countries without these kinds of problems with quality, ...

 

Ho, ho, ho 

I don't know about Google phones, but here's a video from someone who makes a living fixing Apple products, including stuff that Apple will tell you is not repairable:

The horrible truth about Apple's repeated engineering failures (24:47)

He also provides an extensive set of tutorial videos on how to make board-level repairs on similar electronics, and demonstrates numerous repairs made on Apple laptops, almost all on the actual "un-repair-able" circuit boards.

(also see the video on his channel about the CBC report he participated in)

---PCJ

Here is probably the best paper description, written by Russell Wanhill in 2005.  So keep in mind, the New Jersey Zinc company created the early Zinc 3 alloys etc as a result of the earlier problems and this is where early limitations on impurities were defined.  One thing I have noticed is that it is repeatedly stated in publications that high quality zinc is difficult to make and you can't do that by starting with lesser grades, or re melts etc.  It is very easy for off shore production to be susceptible to this problem if they are not using high quality zinc to start with.  Low dollar wins the bid, and there is a big relative price difference to get the good stuff.  Also, for the most part Lionel/MTH/etc, will not "see" a defect since the failure will not occur until later.

 

Attachments

josef posted:

Just out of curiosity, do any of the other scales HO, S, and N have problems like this? My good friend and neighbor who is moving this week and had a sale on his HO equipment and was at one time into O scale when asked if he ever had any electronic or zinc problems in his 15 years of HO modeling, said he never had any problems as he read and followed on Forums. His layout was in the garage with only a fan to cool him when operating.

Yep - I noted earlier N scale with zinc pest issues with Rivarossi 1960s/1970s steam engine and diesel chassis. My brothers had a HO Rivarossi 2-8-0 that had its tender chassis crumble (tender had the motor mounted to it and the frame just fell apart - those were all made in Italy).A recent issue Intermountain N scale SD45 from China I recently obtained had its chassis disintegrate when I took the engine apart to service it. Prewar Flyer 3/16ths O gauge is notorious for being afflicted by Dorfan’s Disease - I’ve had first hand experience with all of these. Unless the zinc is kept as pure as possible the possibility exists for zinc pest to occur - it doesn’t show up immediately and so you never know when it will show up. Maybe plastic or brass shells over a chassis with a slug of lead tor weight is the way to go.

Last edited by MTN
MTN posted:
josef posted:

Just out of curiosity, do any of the other scales HO, S, and N have problems like this? My good friend and neighbor who is moving this week and had a sale on his HO equipment and was at one time into O scale when asked if he ever had any electronic or zinc problems in his 15 years of HO modeling, said he never had any problems as he read and followed on Forums. His layout was in the garage with only a fan to cool him when operating.

Yep - I noted earlier N scale with zinc pest issues with Rivarossi 1960s/1970s steam engine and diesel chassis. My brothers had a HO Rivarossi 2-8-0 that had its tender chassis crumble (tender had the motor mounted to it and the frame just fell apart - those were all made in Italy).A recent issue Intermountain N scale SD45 from China I recently obtained had its chassis disintegrate when I took the engine apart to service it. Prewar Flyer 3/16ths O gauge is notorious for being afflicted by Dorfan’s Disease - I’ve had first hand experience with all of these. Unless the zinc is kept as pure as possible the possibility exists for zinc pest to occur - it doesn’t show up immediately and so you never know when it will show up. Maybe plastic or brass shells over a chassis with a slug of lead tor weight is the way to go.

Yep -  and as I noted earlier, I have seen it twice over the years in HO; one of which was the "lead tor (sic) weight" in the Rivarossi 2-10-2.

And again, fairly recently it appeared in some new release Z scale diesels, but this problem showed itself immediately, not years later. Dunno if that means anything or not, except that the purchasers were able to get replacement frames under warranty...

Mark in Oregon

I've seen it a lot, Athearn, Marklin ho and O, AF 3/16ths O, Lionel of course (prewar mostly), AFX slotcars, Automobile parts (castings), sewing machine components, Blender, Rivarossi.  You also have to keep in mind, the majority of these trains  that zincrotted were already thrown away long ago and so it is pretty reasonable to think that there were a lot more  5-10 years after they were made.

Thanks for replies. I started out in late 60s with N scale. By 2010 had over 100 engines. When I sold them I tested every one without a problem of any rot showing and ran as good as day purchased. I had several HO before  moved into O scale from 80s upward and also a 8x16 layout. Never had a any problems with Zinc rot or frying electronics. Just seems that, a couple "O" items I had did get the "rot" but got replacement parts easily. Zinc rot is secondary worry compared to electronic failures for me, luckily the severe ones were under warranty. 

Last edited by josef
I'd rather be ice fishing posted:

This is a real question...I am new to O scale, have had n scale all my life and I just recently noticed the well detailed legacy engines and I thought it would be nice to have a couple.  My rude awakening came when my tender doors on my used Allegheny crumbled apart simply by daring to open them,  now I see the sliding steam tube system in front has the paint cracking off from them so I suppose that is rotten also( I thought they were plastic? Maybe not)?  I had the absurd idea that lionel was a name brand to trust for durability and zinc rot to this extent is a new concept to me,  have never seen it in any of the 20 year old corgi die cast that I also collect.  The point of this post is to ask:  in future is it likely that someone will start to manufacture all these small parts that lionel does not offer or will there be a market full of broken $1200.  engines out there with no available parts? (I am not handy with parts making myself)...I can't think of anything that compares with this situation in n-scale.  I put my o scale engines in a curio cabinet as I am afraid to run them now lest I break an irreplaceable part. I know many of you can run lathes, fabricate parts and program computers but I am just the average guy with basic skills and it seems like a dim future for the average o-scale modeler like myself.  I may not be rich enough for this hobby as I cant buy $400-$1200 engines and then throw them away in a few years.  Am I crazy to think this way?  Please gently correct me if I am...Bryan

Bryan,

I am returning to model railroading after 15 years away and like you I can’t afford to spend all that money on something that will disintegrate as I use it. After reading all of the posts it’s apparent that zinc rot is a random problem, thankfully not worse. If you are going to stay a collector, it might be best to sell the engine and buy something else. You have my sympathies, hopefully you can recover enough of your investment to buy another engine.

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