It's OK if you own it, don't use paint with lead in it, and you use adequate ventilation. Other than that, I have no opinion that would hinder your enjoyment of the hobby.

Anytime is okay in my opinion.  There isn't anything I wouldn't repaint in my collection regardless of alleged collectability if it suited my interests. 

I concur.

You own it, do with as you please.

According to TCA standards a repaint or restoration can only be rated c-5 (good) maximum.   So if value is your objective only restore those which are c-5 or less. Most of which you describe sounds like Good or less.  OTH it is yours do what pleases you.  If you are looking at toy trains as an investment, forget it.

I have yet to repaint any of my trains at all, but for Postwar stuff the only thing I may repaint or at least touch up is my 671 S2 Turbine, which is considerably scratched up. It also has faded lettering on the tender. I personally don't like to restore things, unless certain parts of it are truly damaged and need to be rebuilt/replaced, or are just gone completely. And if anything needs to be replaced, I prefer to get the original part and not a reproduction. I also have a rule for myself where I try not to buy old items that were restored or modified by someone else, because I care that much about things being as original as possible. So you'll never see me doing things like putting any kind of command control or electronics in Prewar, Postwar, or MPC locomotives, or replacing their brushed motors with DC ones, even though I think the DC motors are better. It's just something I don't like to do with collectables period.

I do agree with the people above that if it's your item, then you can do whatever you want with it, and I actually like some of the paint jobs and modifications that people have done to their older items, but there are people like me who don't want timeless classic items like Postwar stuff to be changed in any way, at least if it doesn't have to be.

@Art Lites posted:

...  If you are looking at toy trains as an investment, forget it.

This times 10.

And if you're asking the question if something should be repainted or restored, then the answer is probably "yes".

I'm not sure why I should have a voice or opinion in what someone else is doing to do with their own private  property, especially toy trains.  I understand tight control over the air, water, soil and things that we all depend on.  Your house is probably subject to ordinances and deed restrictions.   But your car, tools and toys should be yours to enjoy, whatever you want to paint or modify them.

I realize this is heresy and politically incorrect but I have bought several items just to repaint in the future.

And I have a 3530 Texas Special, a couple of UPS boxcars and a red Central Of Georgia done by RGS which I think are exquisite.

@Mannyrock posted:

When is it "okay" to repaint a PreWar or PostWar tinplate car?

Anytime you like!  It's your car, do with it what you please.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Anytime you like!  It's your car, do with it what you please.

Nailed it!

I think what this comes down to is rarity. There definitely is a consensus among collectors of antique trains, that truly rare pieces should not be repainted. We are talking about situations were only a handful (or less) are known to exist and there is some historical importance to preserving these examples. But anyone with the wherewithal to acquire such a rare piece probably already knows this and agrees with it.

Now almost anything by Lionel, Ives, or Flyer made from the 20s on is not rare and in some cases common. I restore these for my own use as needed. If I want to make it look good and there is modest damage, I touch up the paint, preserving as much of the original paint and patina as I can. A basket case could be completely stripped and repainted. There is something satisfying and worthwhile to bring a piece back to operating condition.

There is a FB page for tinplate collectors where this (and the hypothetical line) has been discussed in detail.

All good advice above with which I concur. :-)

Thanks for all of the advice.   It is exactly what I needed to know.

Don't worry. I don't consider trains an investment.  It is money down the commode to me.

Thanks,

Mannyrock

I have restored almost all of my steam and replaced the numbers with dry transfers and replace all the side rods that were in bad shape. I also had L&L restore to PW B Unit Shells one with portals and one without into the War Bonnet to go with my 2353's and my 2343's. Value will be my kids problem when I have moved on the roundhouse in the sky.

So many have said they are your toys/trains so do as you please with them.

If you ever watch ANTIQUES ROADSHOW on PBS. people bring their multi thousand dollar paintings and antiques, many with some issue.  The appraiser usually tells the owner to have the item restored and the value will increase. 

Why is it not the same with toy trains?

@third rail posted:

If you ever watch ANTIQUES ROADSHOW on PBS. people bring their multi thousand dollar paintings and antiques, many with some issue.  The appraiser usually tells the owner to have the item restored and the value will increase.

Why is it not the same with toy trains?

I don't know, and I'm not sure that is the case with antiques. Perhaps the word "restore" is throwing me. That often implies a radical intervention.

Take furniture. Cleaning, yes, refinishing, no. Many years ago I did repairs (as inconspicuously as possible) to furniture that was going up for auction at Sotheby's in NYC. I didn't work for Sotheby's directly but for a restorer/refinisher. She did very little to them other than wipe them down. The one thing you never want to do with a valuable piece of antique furniture is strip off the old finish. That patina can never be replicated.

Now a painting with a tear- that tear should be professionally repaired. Some times paintings are relined to literally save a painting whose canvas is rotting away.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty5H9tx2VfU)  And the old dirty varnish is cleaned off. But the maxim, above all, do no harm, always applies.

@third rail posted:

If you ever watch ANTIQUES ROADSHOW on PBS. people bring their multi thousand dollar paintings and antiques, many with some issue.  The appraiser usually tells the owner to have the item restored and the value will increase.

Why is it not the same with toy trains?

The reason that restoration of a toy train is not the same is simply a numbers issue. While there are many collectable trains out there they were made in such high numbers that an original is much more valuable. They are only original once and repaints or restorations are frowned upon buy the current collectors market that values originality first. It is like trying to compare a rare early prewar Alfa Romeo to a current version. The early car can go to a concours show and win even after multiple restorations due to the low production numbers, often in single digits. A modern Alfa Romeo might increase in value if it was never used and stored in a sealed containers for decades, but even then the value would never approach the early prewar version.

Now with that said, I have a 1971 Camaro RS/SS350 that I rescued from being crushed and while not original I do not care since I fixed it up for me.

They are your trains so do what you want.

@third rail posted:

If you ever watch ANTIQUES ROADSHOW on PBS. people bring their multi thousand dollar paintings and antiques, many with some issue.  The appraiser usually tells the owner to have the item restored and the value will increase.

Why is it not the same with toy trains?

Trains aren’t unique to this. Restoring antique firearms is highly frowned upon. Collectors want the original patina. Even refinishing the metal or wood significantly hurts the value. The weapon loses some of its history and story when you restore it.

Train restorations can increase or decrease the value, depends what the condition was before restoration and how good the restoration is. First class restorations will bring more money but they’ll never meet the value of an original in C7 or better condition.

Don’t repaint anything until you’ve paid for it! Then you can do what you want.

Re the Antiques Roadshow "restore" comment .. in situations like that they are referring to specialised conservation restoration services .... People who will clean and conserve the item back to as close as its original state as is possible WITHOUT lowering the commercial value ... Not your neighbour Jack next door with a power washer and a rattle can of black Rustoleum

As to the original question .. yep if its yours you do as you like with it ..If you want shiny and new , then make it shiny and new ... and has also been touched on , "Rare" ... is a word used far too often , most of our "toys" are produced in the tens of thousands ... Its only when you are dealing with small firms or really old examples where age and nautural depletion has reduced numbers to very few examples .

Rarity is also a tool used to market modern toys today ... a factory churns out 100,000 castings then they get painted 10 different ways and suddenly they are rare 1 in 10,000's .. ( ie still not really rare )

For me a litmus test is often "ePay" ...do a search if only one or two examples show up in a month or two of searches then MAYBE your item is rare-ish ... the amount of listings with RARE "xxxxxxx"  pretty much demonstrate its about as rare as acne in an adolescent !  

So pretty much if it was made in an American Factory anytime after 1930 there is a 99.8% chance it is not rare

So once again , if its for your personal enjoyment , do as you will !

But if you are collecting to preserve some sort of value for the future then clean carefully and preserve as much of the original finish you can ... there is no reason why you cant employ BOTH methods tho , originals are only original once , and repaints if they please you... are perfectly fine ( unless you want to sell them handsomely later )

I know that the cleaning of collectible coins greatly decreases their value.  Even the dipping of mint coins to remove oxidation is detectable.

Funny how this subject always reverts back to the "resale value"

As the majority of responses indicate, it’s yours, do what you want.  A man, and his wife, use to babysit our daughter while my wife and I worked.  His wife passed away and he was moving to an assisted living facility.  He showed up one day with a box of trains he had when he was young.

One of them was this 607 made from 1931-1935.  I also found it had a value of $10, good condition.  As you can see from the photos, it was not in good condition.  I striped it and repainted it with rattle can colors very close to the original and add decals.

Now I have a reminder of someone who was important in our life.

To keep it simple and to not kick the hornet's nest. My opinion. I see no issue with restoration as long as it is disclosed.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Anytime you like!  It's your car, do with it what you please.

Especially if you paint them Razorback Red or Giraffe Blue! 

Mitch

How about when it looks like this

I've started to strip the parts off this one but no amount of cleaning or TLC will help this one. I'll repaint it and hopefully it will look as good as new

Great pictures.  Thanks.

If you are asking yourself this question it means you are already sensitive to the fact there is an active collectors market that would love to get their hands on those items if they were in sufficiently good condition.  If you believe your item in its unrestored condition falls below that sufficiently good condition line, then IMO you can repaint it without guilt.

In summary to ALL the good advice above: Do whatever YOU want! :-)

Anytime!

Bob Nelson

I was going to repaint this one, but thought better of it

Like everyone has mentioned, it is really up to you.  I repainted this very rare caboose (I know of less than a dozen of these with this style of handrails), but I bought it for around $20 and its value had already been destroyed by a former owner's repainting effort.

It was definitely worth the effort to repaint it, as now it is close to being the original colors and the brass has been polished.

I will say that had I found this caboose with its original red paint on it, I would have been very hesitant to repaint it. 

I am considering repainting another very rare item, but again this is due to a former owner repainting it and getting the color wrong.  I figure if I can get the color closer to the original color it will look much better and won't affect the value, as it is already repainted.

I do not have a lot of repaints in my collection, but there are some items that are just so rare that one buys them in whatever condition they can find them.

NWL

@CPC posted:

I was going to repaint this one, but thought better of it

That's a tough one, but it is so old and has such a history and patina, that I agree. What is it exactly? I still haven't learned to tell these very early steamers apart.

@CPC posted:

I was going to repaint this one, but thought better of it

I wouldn’t repaint that one. It’s a thin rim 5 by Lionel. I’m not sure of the exact year yours is, but the thin rimmed models are better left alone as repainting one can hurt the value in it.

                                                        Trainfam

Thanks for sharing these unbelievable repaint jobs.

"When is it 'okay' to repaint....."? When you own it. In my opinion this was a bloody stupid question, and falls into the category of, "when is it OK to paint my living room", or "when is it OK to eat breakfast"?

Sometimes it might be prudent to find a kindred soul to privately express your opinions to, rather than insult a fellow forum member.

@modeltrainsparts posted:

"When is it 'okay' to repaint....."? When you own it. In my opinion this was a bloody stupid question, and falls into the category of, "when is it OK to paint my living room", or "when is it OK to eat breakfast"?

To you, yes, but not to everyone. This is actually a question that is batted about frequently. It is not the same as "when is it ok to paint my living room"

Yes, of course it is your choice to do what ever you want with what you own. We all know that. But that was not the intent of the OP's question, I believe.

The question to me seems to be when is an item so rare or valuable in its original paint, however poor, that to repaint it is to lower the value or otherwise erase the historical record of a manufacturer. Asking the question shows the poster has a sensitivity to the historical value of some of these toys.

It's a worthwhile discussion to have and feel free not to participate. ( And by the way, if you live in the Biltmore House, perhaps you should not repaint your living room)

@Mannyrock posted:

Hey Guys,

Not talking about engines here, just cars.

Mannyrock

Mannyrock,

IMHO, it makes no difference whether it is a locomotive or "just car", if you own it, anytime is the right time to repaint it.

Bob Nelson

Didn't you guys hear the latest from the "Paint Nazi"???

"No paint for you!!!"  

Simon

@navy.seal posted:

Mannyrock,

IMHO, it makes no difference whether it is a locomotive or "just car", if you own it, anytime is the right time to repaint it.

Bob Nelson