Been surfing fleabay for some trains for a younger relative, for his birthday (he really liked some of the Boy Scout projects we did for his merit badge), and am quite frankly shocked at the prices some people are asking for such things as low end Marx sets. Where did the public get the idea that trains were worth their weight in diamonds?
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Ignorance. Greed. (Un)reality shows. Lingering exaggerated rumors/stories from the 1980's-90's. Published price guides of dubious origin. Collectibles 'authorities' who have a vested interest in hyping caretakers of junk into fantasies of wealth.
Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And, yet, it is the cardinal rule in a free market to be able to name your own price. It only takes one buyer to make one sale. Scruples or no.....it happens.
Caveat emptor. Do your homework before buying. It's called due diligence.....something the savvy folks do.
Looks bad? Looks too high? ......walk away.
KD
First it was the price guides.....and live auctions where somebody paid big bucks for a mint and rare item. This means that every rusty example of any product of that manufacturer is worth that (to the uninitiated, and....to some that should be). And then it became the internet auctions, where anybody can click on and see that one rare mint item sold, so......theirs is worth that....good thing the bay charges for listing.
I still find some good deals at train shows, but I'm not looking for rare or mint items. I know how to walk away from high prices. I find some of the best deals on Sunday afternoon when vendors are packing up what's left.
Ebay has a lot of crazy prices.
The people outside the hobby KNOW that any Lionel from 1946 to 1960 is VALUABLE because they know someone from work whose uncle in Wyoming has a daughter in law who's friend at the office sold a Lionel 6- abcde for $800.
Everywhere the rules of basic economics, Supply and Demand, apply. If you are in a desert and haven't had a drink in three days, the first bottle of water is worth a lot of money. Second one not as much and after the third, you may not want another. If your good friend has an early Hudson in TCA 8 he bought for $800, you might care less. Or you may want to play Keeping Up With The Joneses and are willing to pay $1000 for a TCA 9..
OGR Forum has both For Sale and Want to Buy forums. Both have realistic prices and you can always make an offer to a Forum member. John in Lansing, Ill
Greetings Everyone,
I probably should mine my own business but I'm just not smart enough for that so here goes. 
It isn't just "The Bay." There are a few of us here that think their stuff is worth the price being asked but invariably the same item will be reduced in order to make a sale. 
And please don't get me started about Train Shows.
We've heard or read this a thousand times but somehow we still can't wrap our heads around the fact that people will only pay what they think an item is worth to them. The key word is "them". Perhaps I view an item that I'm willing to pay the asking price for because it is worth that to me. But to someone else, not so much. Again, you can ask any amount you want for an item you are selling but it is the amount you ultimately sell the item for that counts. Like some of our fellow members have stated, you can always walk away if you do not like the price of any given item. Nuff Said! 
Chief Bob (Retired)
If you notice on ebay a lot of those very high priced items are listed by pros. Some of them are consigning items for sellers, so they need to figure in the customers desired value, plus what they want to make on it. And sometimes, they will attract a buyer who is just tired of searching for that "need to have" item and pays the high price. I see it at the train shows.
For me as a buyer, I keep a set value in mind and won't go over it when I'm looking for something.
For ms a seller, I factor in the value of my time to drag product from show to show, so I price very aggressively and often have most of my table sold at the end of the day. I've turned down consignments or collection liquidation because the owners (usually grown children) have distorted views of condition/value etc. Even if it's a part time business for me, it's got to be fun, we're talking toy trains here.
Tim
On the flip-side, I have paid way less for trains than what they're worth. As DKDKDR said, due diligence. Just because something is priced high doesn't mean anyone has to buy it. I have also paid high for an item a lot of people would say is not worth it, but was to me. Trains are very much a sentimental market and one man's Marx 999 is another man's Prewar 700E.
El Classico posted:Been surfing fleabay for some trains for a younger relative, for his birthday (he really liked some of the Boy Scout projects we did for his merit badge), and am quite frankly shocked at the prices some people are asking for such things as low end Marx sets. Where did the public get the idea that trains were worth their weight in diamonds?
Considering the prices being paid for new high-end items, I am quite sure that the general public has the same question about us!
Timothy Sprague posted:If you notice on ebay a lot of those very high priced items are listed by pros. Some of them are consigning items for sellers, so they need to figure in the customers desired value, plus what they want to make on it. And sometimes, they will attract a buyer who is just tired of searching for that "need to have" item and pays the high price. I see it at the train shows.
For me as a buyer, I keep a set value in mind and won't go over it when I'm looking for something.
For ms a seller, I factor in the value of my time to drag product from show to show, so I price very aggressively and often have most of my table sold at the end of the day. I've turned down consignments or collection liquidation because the owners (usually grown children) have distorted views of condition/value etc. Even if it's a part time business for me, it's got to be fun, we're talking toy trains here.
Tim
Would you say ebay has lost most of the small vendors and is now over run with large "buy it now" businesses? Have a friend looking to liquidate a large MPC/Kughn collection. From what I've seen they are looking at getting near list price while many think they will be lucky to get .25 on the $1. Agree completely that asking price and accepted offers are all over the place depending on who wants it and how bad. Just like houses a few years back?
In the last 10 years the demographics of those who have bought the trains has shifted considerably. It will continue to do so. With the massive amount of trains on the market these days there is no problem getting good buys.
rattler21 posted:Everywhere the rules of basic economics, Supply and Demand, apply. If you are in a desert and haven't had a drink in three days, the first bottle of water is worth a lot of money.
Learned that back in 83 after travelling thru Death Valley, we were almost on E by the time we made it thru. First gas station outside the desert had cheap gas for 7.50 a gallon and a sign that said next gas station was almost 60 miles, needless to say we paid the piper.
Jerry
The value of trains has been and will continue to be argued until the cows come home.
A lot of members on this forum have hit the mark right on by saying basically that prices are governed by how badly someone wants an item and therefore, how much they are willing to pay for it. It has more to do with this emotion than supply and demand.
Prime examples; the auction houses (most of you know who they are) command unbelievable prices for their trains. Of course, this isn't the fault of the auction houses, but more from the bidders who absolutely "have to have" an item and the resultant price is insane.
The perception that something is ultra-rare also governs prices realized. Most items were made in far greater numbers than the public realizes, yet this so-called "rarity" creates a feeding frenzy and again, up goes the price.
The "I have it and you don't" mantra also affects people in a lot of instances. Many will pay ridiculous prices for items, just to say that they acquired them after the "the challenge of the hunt".
For those with super-deep pockets who want something bad enough, I say "more power to you", but to the average person, using common sense and walking away from what one perceives as a ridiculous price, that is probably the best and least stressful route to take.
i see people go on social media sites,including this one, [ that alone raises a red flag with me],asking what their family members trains are worth .everybody says" buy a price guide" which is wrong. next they post photos of some common lionel scout equipment and i see crazy values put on this stuff....
BobbyD posted:Timothy Sprague posted:If you notice on ebay a lot of those very high priced items are listed by pros. Some of them are consigning items for sellers, so they need to figure in the customers desired value, plus what they want to make on it. And sometimes, they will attract a buyer who is just tired of searching for that "need to have" item and pays the high price. I see it at the train shows.
For me as a buyer, I keep a set value in mind and won't go over it when I'm looking for something.
For ms a seller, I factor in the value of my time to drag product from show to show, so I price very aggressively and often have most of my table sold at the end of the day. I've turned down consignments or collection liquidation because the owners (usually grown children) have distorted views of condition/value etc. Even if it's a part time business for me, it's got to be fun, we're talking toy trains here.
Tim
Would you say ebay has lost most of the small vendors and is now over run with large "buy it now" businesses? Have a friend looking to liquidate a large MPC/Kughn collection. From what I've seen they are looking at getting near list price while many think they will be lucky to get .25 on the $1. Agree completely that asking price and accepted offers are all over the place depending on who wants it and how bad. Just like houses a few years back?
Well, the "ebay stores" do seem to crowd out the auctions, but there are still individuals selling.
I sold a huge collection of MPC-modern last year, about half of it on ebay. The condition of the trains were unrun, but dirty from being on replay in a heavy smokers house. Engines got pretty good prices, rolling stock not so much.
This year I'm liquidating a collection that is in much nicer shape, and I'm seeing less of a return on those MPC era items. I think there are multiple forces at play- manufacturers such as Williams, Lionel and MTH have some pretty nice lower priced lines these days - a lot of early MTH PS-1 and PS-2 seem to getting a lot of attention on the market, etc. (some say an election year causes a decline of consumer confidence) So yes, nothing outside of motive power is going for much money in the MPC/Kuhn era stock. I'm seeing $4-$12 per piece for rolling stock. And factor in the time and expense of putting together listings and packaging, it's cents on the dollar for sure. I find the highest returns at the local TCA meet. I still sell lots of freight cars in the $5-$10 range, but it's all done in a 4 hours span, so less overhead/time involve.
Tim
Deep space...........
This is a post that has its origins fogged with the age of half a century or so . . . be not too harsh on me. The precise figures are perhaps less than, er, well, "precise."
As a boy I had the Lionel CP passenger set. It was featured in the 1957 catalog IIRC. I sold it ca. 1960 or so. Never gave it a thought for decades. Then the internet happened. I checked on ebay out of curiosity to find that the CP passenger set I sold for peanuts was going for THOUSANDS!!!! IIRC, I saw $8000 asked for it at one point. Not sure it ever sold for that.
Last I saw were the locomotives, CP2373 I think, in a shop in NJ. They had a price tag of several thousand dollars on them.
Astounds me. Even as a boy I thought these were lousy models. The portholes didn't even have lenses? Molded in handrails. Garbage, really by today's standards. I would have zero interest in owning such a crummy model today.
And I don't think they sell for anywhere near what I saw them listed for ten years ago or so?
The value of used trains seems a highly variable thing. Once collectors enter the mix, anything goes.
How come things are way too expensive when I want to buy and no one will give me anything for what I want to sell?
EBay has lots of eager or stupid buyers, therefore few deals. You must find sources with few buyers to get deals. That takes work, effort and luck.
Charlie
It's the same for anyone into any type of old stuff (just ask anyone collecting German WW2 stuff). Everyone who has the stuff thinks this:
Anything old = priceless
It's that simple.
Shows like Pawn Stars and American Pickers sure don't help this as most of them are faked.
I just returned from a weekend train show yesterday. Here are real-world prices on items I actually bought. I paid the asking prices, except as noted.
Lionel MPC 9422 EJ&E boxcar (6464 size) OB $6
Lionel 6464-197, 6-19289 Monon boxcar, die-cast sprung trucks, OB $5 (was asking $10)
Marx 3/16 scale #256 tank car, all metal, 1940's?, some tarnish $5
Lionel 205 Alco FA loco Magna-traction - hopefully serviceable $12 (was asking $20)
Lionel 9277 tank car, die-cast sprung trucks $7.50
Lionel 7925 box car O27, clean $2.50
repro 1925 Lionel catalog $1
repro 1929 Lionel catalog $1
8 pieces of Marx O34 curve tracks (full circle) $1 (not shown)
Some vendors had similar items for up to ten times the price - which rarely sell. The vendors who want to move their items price them realistically. I daresay I scouted out some of the best O-gauge bargains of the entire show. Most of the guys I bought from were cheerful enough about selling and I spent time talking with them.
Why the general public thinks Lionel Trains are worth a fortune is:
Lionel Trains were ALWAYS high priced,high end models to buy.
They cost lots of money in the 30's,40's and 50's,and they still cost lots of money in 2016!!!
This is why they were always associated with Christmas,the one time of the year when you could ask for something expensive and special.
Banks had "Christmas Clubs"in the past,where your parents could set aside a little money through the year to make certain they could provide their children that one "Special" gift,that they could not afford by any means at any other time of the year.-I believe many Lionel Train sets were bought this way,and certainly some of us were the recipients of these sets.
Sure you could get a single car,extra track,and accessories during the year,But those Santa Fe's and GG-1's had to wait for Christmastime.There were many of us who got a Marx train or an American Flyer,but it was always that Lionel that we wanted.
I think this is why most of the general public believes old trains are worth a fortune.Even grandma knew that train cost a lot of money,and that too is why so many are still around.No one really ever just put them in the trash,like they do with so many other items.
We here on the forum know that Lionel trains Still cost a lot of money.I have still NEVER purchased a NEW Lionel train.I buy them used,or in need of repair,or I could not even participate in the O gauge realm of this hobby.
Many of us were simply not able to pre-order a Vision Line Big Boy last year.It just wasn't in the budget.And unfortunately for me,"Santa Claus" has not put anything under my tree in about 38 years now!!!!
So maybe in about 5 years from now,I might finally get that Vision Line Big Boy!!!-I am grateful to The Lord for the trains that I have,but that doesn't mean I'm not looking for more!!!!And when the time is right,I will buy them.
"Just My Opinion" on this topic.-Kenny
i have seen this a few times on eBay... a set with a rare version of a car sells for a lot. the next week you see a dozen similar sets listed, but of course none have the same rare piece included. cue a dozen puzzled and disappointed sellers.
cheers...gary
Some of it is due to ignorance of the seller. As stated before, train sets especially Lionel were considered the high dollar, big ticket Christmas present. So now that they're antique they should command a high dollar right? I spied a Scout set a few years back at a yard sale, it was rough but serviceable, I don't restore my stuff I just make them run but anyway I asked the price. The seller responded with a $200 price tag because it was a Lionel.......... I politely responded with a thanks but no thanks and walked away I didn't bother making my high offer of $50 after seeing that big of a gap of how much I was willing to pay.....
There was a hobby shop I would go into, perhaps once a year, when I was a kid. He had a collection of nice Lionel stuff in a display case, and he was asking big bucks for it. It didn't really occur to me at the time that the same stuff was in that case every time I went into the store...
So yes, maybe it just is the persistence of trains with high price tags (the fact that they never sell is not noticed by the casual observer), together with the knowledge that trains are "collectible," which causes this.
Of course, to many individuals selling, trains may have a subjective value. Their own trains are tied up with family and memories. Now, many people, perhaps most, would be willing to sell their memories if that was going to mean useful money--if it would, say, cover the car payment for a month or two. But if it's going to mean only fifty or sixty bucks? in that case, maybe not. What I mean is, the non-collecting public's perception of the value of toy trains probably owes something to factors having nothing to do with what someone would be willing to pay for them. If it's valuable to me, I feel like it should be valuable to you.
I have found some good deals on e-bay. For me, I realize that you can't just buy the first item you see. If the item is not especially rare and you don't need it this second, you really need to be patient and watch the items over time to get a sense of what the going rate is. Once you have an idea what the item is typically selling for, look for the people who are selling at a lower price. Also, look at the pictures. People who post many pictures really want to show off what they are selling. Beware if they only show one, out of focus picture. You also need to consider shipping costs as well.
Here's one example: I found a great e-bay deal on a Lionel 126 station for $50 including shipping. It was not museum quality condition, but it looked like it had normal wear (nothing scary). I watched the e-bay listings for a few months. These stations go for anywhere around $50 to up to $200. I just checked, there is one now on e-bay that you can buy for $43.99.
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