aussteve posted:I saw one in person in Dallas Texas, but it was in the Train Museum at the Cotton Bowl Fairgrounds. I never saw it operate, but it was very large. They also had some Union Pacific Diesel engine that was as large or larger than the GG-1. A very impressive collection of trains/engines in such a small space.
That museum has since been relocated to a different location away from Dallas, to Frisco, Texas.
OK, time for a Pennsy vocabulary lesson:
Snapper - helper engine
Shifter - switcher engine
Cabin Car - what the unwashed call a "caboose" 
George
Thru troop movements HBG to Ft Dix probably did not operate into 30th St. Might have changed engines at Frankford Jct. ?
its too bad wasn't used by others out west,,,see how nice they would have looked,,,!!
Gentlemen,
Actually not inside Trenton, the stop was set up outside all on it's own, and run by the US Army, OD Green busses, cold & damp as all get out, during the winter months. I reported in January.
PCRR/Dave
terry hudon posted:its too bad wasn't used by others out west,,,see how nice they would have looked,,,!!
Those look great - nice job! 
I will admit to messing around with a photo of the Williams Conrail GG-1 and trying for a Great Northern blue & white and mountain goat logo. I recall seeing one in GN orange & green. Is that yours too?
It also would have been interesting seeing a GG-1 making it out west under Milwaukee wire somewhere.
its too bad wasn't used by others out west,,,see how nice they would have looked,,,!!
I always thought an interesting, "what if" concept would have been the Milwaukee Road's Pacific Extension where they never de-electrified the RR like they did in '72. And when the GG-1s stopped running back east, a large "hospital train" brought them to Tacoma where they were repainted and replaced the aging bi-polars...
Imagine two GG-1s in this scene, painted the same as these units:
Wasn't the Milwaukee Road overhead all DC?
Anything is possible when you dream
Those Milwaukee units weren't small potatoes either. What HP did they have ??
terry hudon posted:its too bad wasn't used by others out west,,,see how nice they would have looked,,,!!
Terry;
With all due respect, that is just WRONG 
I don't know... that SP rig looks pretty sweet...
I saw GG1's every day in the mid 50's and beyond. When I was working In downtown Philly I rode behind the G's many times.
In 1976 4800 in the Bicentennial scheme was parked at 30th street station for everybody to see. It was incredible to see.
They were incredibly quiet when running also, I know many a picture was missed waiting for one to come by and when it did the G came by so fast and so quiet you barely had time to get a picture if you did get one.
Hot Water posted:Wasn't the Milwaukee Road overhead all DC?
Yes. The Milwaukee Road electrification was constructed to operate at 3,000 volts direct current. An upgrade to 3,400 volts was implemented following acquisition of the EP-4 and EF-4 "Little Joes" in order to maximize their performance. The Russian system the for which the locomotives were built was 3,300 volt DC and, following initial operations, the railroad determined the increase in voltage would make better use of their available power.
Bob
CNJ 3676 posted:Hot Water posted:Wasn't the Milwaukee Road overhead all DC?
Yes. The Milwaukee Road electrification was constructed to operate at 3,000 volts direct current. An upgrade to 3,400 volts was implemented following acquisition of the EP-4 and EF-4 "Little Joes" in order to maximize their performance. The Russian system the for which the locomotives were built was 3,300 volt DC and, following initial operations, the railroad determined the increase in voltage would make better use of their available power.
Bob
One has to wonder if AC powered electrics became available at the right price if the Milwaukee Road would have upgraded to common 60 hertz 11kV AC power.
Somewhere on here is a link to a pretty good dissertation about the Milwaukee and mergers which talked about the shortcomings of the electrification in the 60's and 70's as well as the managerial and economic reasons that led to its demise (in the author's opinion). I have it saved, it's good stuff.
*** armchair speculation following ***
On a different note, the truck sideframes/castings on the GG1 and the Little Joes look similar for both sets of trucks - close to the NH EP1 (or whatever they were named) and the CUT P motors. I believe the G's were all "thirties tech" quill drive motors and the Joes were fourties/fifties tech DC traction motors a la 752. *Disclaimer - my technical knowledge, like most everyone else, is based upon what I read, so this is pure speculation. ***
Thus I suspect that a conversion of G's to run on the Milwaukee would have been prohibitively expensive...
CNJ 3676 posted:Hot Water posted:Wasn't the Milwaukee Road overhead all DC?
Yes. The Milwaukee Road electrification was constructed to operate at 3,000 volts direct current. An upgrade to 3,400 volts was implemented following acquisition of the EP-4 and EF-4 "Little Joes" in order to maximize their performance. The Russian system the for which the locomotives were built was 3,300 volt DC and, following initial operations, the railroad determined the increase in voltage would make better use of their available power.
Bob
Of course, I was pipe-dreaming on the paint schemes, but that's interesting. I remember an article somewhere about the Milwaukee substation operations with their motor-generator units and the DC (dynamic brakes I think) being fed back into the system from the downhill-running locomotives. Apparently there could be some scary lightning shows at certain times and the operators stayed off the machinery floor. Any expert knowledge on this?
No worries on the north-east racetracks I would guess. Were there any serious grade-climbing for the GG-1s?
This former Jersey boy must point out with pride that the furthest east a GG1 ever ran was to Matawan, NJ on the North Jersey Coast line. In fact the final run of the GG1 (October, 1983) departed from Matawan.
Steven J. Serenska
The Matawan exception of 10/29/83 was already noted in my post of the 21st on page 1 of the thread.
David1,
I never got to see the Real Bicentennial 4800 GG1 Engine, man I bet she was really something, do you have any pictures of the real engine. If you do please post them for us to see!
PCRR/Dave
I have some books on inter urbans and electrification and, I guess, there was no "perfect" electric current to use. Everything was a compromise plus GE and Westinghouse were promoting competing systems. When I looked in to the GG1 at the Pa. RR Museum I was amazed at how full of equipment it was and how little space the engineer had.
CNJ 3676 posted:The Matawan exception of 10/29/83 was already noted in my post of the 21st on page 1 of the thread.
Here is a copy of the brochure from that "Matawan exception of 10/29/83". I didn't get to ride on it, but I was there when it returned to Matawan. I'll have to look around... I think I have some picture I took that day. The brochure was tri-fold, so the picture was the cover, but the text starts on the second page of the attachment.
I've got that same brochure. I was there for a good part of the day although I didn't take a ride. I was commuting into the city at the time and rode train 3323 home the evening before on the 28th. Powered by the 4879, it was the last regularly scheduled train to depart New York Penn Station behind a GG1. The 4877, 4879 and 4882 were the three GG1s used for the farewell festivities on the 29th.
Here's one of my shots of the 4877 after it was repainted into PRR Tuscan livery. It is westbound at Elizabeth on July 11, 1981.
Bob
Pine Creek Railroad posted:David1,
I never got to see the Real Bicentennial 4800 GG1 Engine, man I bet she was really something, do you have any pictures of the real engine. If you do please post them for us to see!
PCRR/Dave
Taken by one of my railfan aquaintances, Kermit Geary, here's a shot of the 4800 when it was assigned to the Baltimore tunnel helper job. The trailing Gs were the train power.
Bob
I have no pictures when 4800 was at 30th street but one story from the Amtrak personal on site was that they were thinking of painting 3 or 4 passenger cars into the Bicentennial scheme.
Although the GG1 was incredible the passenger cars would have been too gaudy for my taste. It seems Amtrak came to its senses before going ahead with the passenger cars.
My first memory of a GG1 was when I was a boy, my mother dragged me up to the tracks with her to watch Robert Kennedy's funeral train pass through our hometown of Linden, NJ.
Not my photo ....
Being an "Electric's Nut", you would probably think that I would have known the different supply circuits AC vs DC that powered the different motors that were America Built, but until I read all of this post, I didn't have the slightest idea!
Now here is the question, I wonder which was the best/less expensive to make and install AC or DC?
Seems like that would have driven the Supply Standard!
Probably no different that GE and EMD, as they have their own differences.
Great Post, and thanks to everybody for the comments, as it improved my knowledge on the "Railroad Motors".....................Brandy!
Here are some images of GG1s in New Haven CT.
Here are a few fantasy paint schemes that were done long ago in HO scale. Here is a Tyco "GG1". Check the crazy running gear.
Here is an old Varney or Penn Line GG1.
jim pastorius posted:I have some books on inter urbans and electrification and, I guess, there was no "perfect" electric current to use. Everything was a compromise plus GE and Westinghouse were promoting competing systems. When I looked in to the GG1 at the Pa. RR Museum I was amazed at how full of equipment it was and how little space the engineer had.
Yes. The GG1's cab was very cramped. Whenever an extra man rode in the forward cab, you had to stand directly behind either the Engineer or Fireman in the space leading to the door. I conked my head on more than one occasion on that bulkhead extending down from the ceiling which bisected the cab.
Bob
Jeff T posted:Born and raised in Chicago I don't ever remember seeing them or even pictures of the here?
Jeff - Can you please correct the title of this thread to "Were", not "Where"?
Well, there is a GG1 in the Chicago area, it's at IRM in Union, Illinois.
Rusty
Since we moved back in August I haven't located it but do remember seeing it here I have framed a book on GG1's mainly the first one it was the story of it read it once then framed it need to dig it out again. It was produce by some model railroad club in PA around Lancaster I can't remember which one but I do know the book is out of print. found it titled " Career of a Champion" The Story of the first GG1 by Frederic H. Abendschien and Dan Cupper. Found a copy on amazon if anyone is interested http://www.amazon.com/Career-c...-first/dp/B0006EJJB6
1984 Lancaster chapter, NRHS
342 W.Fritz Avenue
Quarryville, PA 17566
When I learned that the MILW electrification was 3000 VDC, I used to daydream about riding a Lackawanna MU across Montana! ...or a "Little Joe" hauling hoppers of stone on the Gladstone (NJ) Branch.
"The EP-5s were rapidly replaced on Washington–Boston trains by the reliable former PRR GG1 electrics." This statement from Wikipedia indicates that GG1 locomotives did operate on the New Haven Railroad.
CNJ 3676 posted:jim pastorius posted:I have some books on inter urbans and electrification and, I guess, there was no "perfect" electric current to use. Everything was a compromise plus GE and Westinghouse were promoting competing systems. When I looked in to the GG1 at the Pa. RR Museum I was amazed at how full of equipment it was and how little space the engineer had.
Yes. The GG1's cab was very cramped. Whenever an extra man rode in the forward cab, you had to stand directly behind either the Engineer or Fireman in the space leading to the door. I conked my head on more than one occasion on that bulkhead extending down from the ceiling which bisected the cab.
Bob
Hey Bob... What did the crews think of the GG1s?? Were they cold in the winter? hot in summer ,reliable? .Did wet weather come into play?
Visibility isn't that great compared to modern diesels... I suppose with all that electricity around crews had to be specially trained. speed restrictions? just curious.
Hi, Gregg.
There was a great deal of respect for the GG1s among the employees. The guys I knew regarded it as a privilege to have an opportunity to work with them. Once we reached the mid-70s, the oldest ones had logged 40 years of dependability in high profile service. As I was attending school in western New York state, I served an internship on Conrail's Central Region. The employees knew I was from New Jersey and even they asked me questions about the GG1s since they knew I had grown up around them. The locomotives had clearly earned themselves legendary status, not just among enthusiasts but professional railroaders as well.
That said, it's interesting to examine some of the qualities of the GG1 which you asked about. The cabs were quite primitive and had a very 1930s feel to them which makes sense since that's when they started building the locomotives. The cabs were very cold in the winter and hot in the summer. To combat the summer heat, you'd keep the windows open but then you'd have to contend with the lound sound of the breaking wind as the train moved along at high speed. In the winter, you'd just have to bundle up. I have pictures in which Enginemen are wearing ski caps. Regarding the visibility aspect, as can be seen in pictures taken facing forward along the front of the car body, visibility from the cab certainly wasn't an attribute but having a man on each side worked fine.
Operation of the GG1s was quite interesting. The controller (throttle) had a passenger setting and a freight setting. There were 22 notches for passenger and 17 for freight service. Reviewing employee timetables for PRR, Penn Central, Amtrak, Conrail and NJ Transit, the highest maximum authorized speed I can find for the GG1 at any one time was 100 miles per hour but I, along with most everyone else who was familiar with them, can attest to the fact they were capable of and did run at higher speeds. Based upon his own experiences, one Fireman recounted stories in which a pair of Gs in multiple could maintain 90 MPH with about 70 loaded TOFC flats and 70 MPH with 125 car manifest freights. As has been previously published, a large number of the locomotives were re-geared for 90 MPH. These were the locomotives which were used in freight service but were also still perfectly capable of passenger service. In fact , the thirteen GG1s conveyed to the New Jersey Department of Transportation for North Jersey Coast Line trains between New York City and South Amboy, the 4872-4884, were part of the re-geared group. Interestingly enough, a weakness of the GG1 was starting heavy tonnage. They could be rather slippery when starting heavy freight trains and it required the combined tractive effort of multiple Gs to get heavy trains started and up to track speed but once they got rolling, they rolled. Their acceleration in passenger service was incredible. Coming off the Perth Amboy & Woodbridge Branch with a NY&LB train onto the Northeast Corridor at UNION, once the last car cleared the interlocking, the Engineer would notch out the throttle and the locomotive took off like it was shot out of a cannon. The acceleration was that impressive.
As the 70s progressed, the age of the GG1s really began to show. There had been deferred maintenance during the final years of the Pennsy and throughout Penn Central and despite the best effort of the Wilmington shop workers, reliability began to suffer. Conrail retired its fleet and Amtrak's locomotives soldiered on into the early 80s. Amtrak's GG1s were seen running in multiple more frequently in order to protect schedules. Once Amtrak's fleet was removed from service, the thirteen NJDOT/NJ Transit examples were the last remaining GG1s in regular service. By the time they were retired in October 1983 and replaced by consists of Comet cars powered by ex-Amtrak HEP equipped E60CHs on through trains to New York , their time had come. No premature retirement in this case...these were locomotives which were literally worn out.
Bob
Thank you so much Bob...... . Really good post & info.
My pleasure.
I was just going through some of my slides and found the attached picture which ties into the story I told about eastbound NY&LB trains accelerating away from UNION. For this shot, I was standing on the platform at North Rahway just east of Rahway station. The Engineer has opened the throttle and the 4872 is digging in for the high speed dash through Linden into Elizabeth before slowing for the speed restriction through the famous "S" curve. If you look closely in front of the first driver you'll notice the Engineer is putting down sand to help his G gain speed. The sound of the GG1s as they rapidly accelerated was not easily forgotten. It was best heard from the first car, preferably if the car was positioned with the vestibule in front so you could stand immediately behind the locomotive...they used to let you do things like that back in the day once they got to know you. Heck, the G's have been gone for more than thirty years now but I can still hear their signature sounds like it was yesterday. "Next stop Newark Penn Station!" As much as I enjoyed my time aboard them and riding trains pulled by them, the GG1s were just as thrilling when viewed trackside.
Bob
Thanks for the GG1 stories !! Have always loved them although never I never saw one running. The several trips I took east to NYC by train I might have been pulled by one. I was so thrilled when I found one at a bargain price and it has always ran well.
Gpritch posted:Jeff T posted:Born and raised in Chicago I don't ever remember seeing them or even pictures of the here?
Jeff - Can you please correct the title of this thread to "Were", not "Where"?
A Very Good Suggestion PLEASE Consider it
Doug
Thank you to all who posted their own photos of the GG1. Its good to see these "new" photos. Keep them coming
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