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Well, be careful, the OP asked about using an HO-style DC  transformer. I feel pretty safe saying that ANY O-gauge loco draws more current than an HO loco. So, while the O-gauge loco may indeed run on DC, an HO power pack may not be hefty enough to make it happen, especially with the older series motor stuff. 

PLCProf posted:

Well, be careful, the OP asked about using an HO-style DC  transformer. I feel pretty safe saying that ANY O-gauge loco draws more current than an HO loco. So, while the O-gauge loco may indeed run on DC, an HO power pack may not be hefty enough to make it happen, especially with the older series motor stuff. 

Sorry, I just meant  DC-style.  I realize that O scale needs more Wattage, but they do make powerful DC transformers, even for use with HO layouts.  I believe o-scale 2-railers use them, if they don't have DCC

 

Does any currently-produced Lionel run on straight dc?

Last edited by Martin H
Martin H posted:

I'm just curious.  How many, if any, 3-rail trains will run on a ho-style DC transformer?  I am  under the impression that PS3 trains from MTH will.  How about PS2 or PS1 trains?  Will atlasO locos run with a DC transformer?  

All 3-rail trains have DC motors in them, right?

The older 3 rail locos use series wound universal motors; these function as well on DC as AC.

Bogie

Yes, "O-scalers" tend to use DC power, and therefore DC power sources. 

There's nothing "HO" about it. HO descends directly from O-scale technology (the 2-rail, DC kind) - it was just smaller. 

I think that some of the newer MTH 3-rail equipment will adjust to whichever power source you put on the track, but most has never done that, MTH or not. DC into AC electronics = dead. An AC motor itself would not be bothered, as it is a universal motor, anyway, as mentioned above; a DC can motor is just that: DC; AC will damage it.

The best way to find out is to read the specs on the box, or elsewhere. 

I would not run any Locomotives on DC that are designed to run on AC . The sound units in those locos are triggered by shot of DC that rides on the AC sign wave. Any DC put into the tracks and the sound units will work continuously. Now if you gutted those engines and wired direct to the pickups the motors and  can motors will work fine on DC.

Do all MTH PS2 locomotives run on DC? I thought that ability to run on DC was something MTH added somewhere along the way. 

If you do intend to use a HO power pack, PLCPROF is correct in what he is saying. Especially, if you are using a locomotive with command control and sounds.

Here is a quick video of a MTH PS2 3/2 locomotive. Although it is in 2 rail mode for demonstration purposes, it doesn't matter as the electronics don't care how many rails there are. Notice in the end of the video you can see that the power pack is turned up to about 80% of it's power.

What I don't like about the MTH locomotives in pure DC mode is you can't ring the bell or blow the whistle. I wonder if the DCS Commander would allow the whistle and bell to used in pure DC mode?

In Atlas DCC locomotives you blow the whistle in pure DC mode by flipping the direction switch while the locomotive is in motion. Which is actually kind of fun. 

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Last edited by Hudson J1e

I have at one time or another run just about every engine I have ( MTH, Atlas, Weaver, and Lionel 3 rail)  with an HO power pack.  They run ok but if you were running several locos in a consist (lash-up) it may not be enough power.  Or, if you are running a train of lighted passenger cars they too might draw too much power.  I have even run some G scale locos with an HO power pack.

Rick

I ran my Weaver 4-6-0 using a Troller Transamp 1, DC volts.  Of course all I had hooked up was the DC can motor, ran pretty good too.

That's the good thing about these engines with can motors, if the electronics dies you can always gut it and run the DC can motor from a DC power pack.  It's all the "bling" that we have come to expect in our models that need the helping hand of command control.

Since the TMCC RCDR uses triacs to power the motor, and they need AC power, they probably won't run on DC.  Lionel cautions you against DC in both the TMCC and Legacy manuals.

For Legacy...

Power your locomotive with an alternating-current (AC) transformer only. Powering your
locomotive with a direct-current (DC) transformer, or in excess of 19 volts AC, may result
in damage to sensitive electronic components.

For TMCC...

Do not power your locomotive with a direct-current (DC) transformer. Damage to
sensitive electronic components may occur.

I can see anything with Triacs not working with DC, and would be curious how common Triac motor drivers are as opposed to ones using transistors or mosfets.  Are they used for the open frame motors, even though those could be run from DC?  

As for TMCC engines, the track signal requires AC as a carrier, so anything TMCC or Legacy technically needs to be powered from AC.  I think one could get around that if they really wanted to, but that is a whole other subject. Aside from a triac motor driver, however, I do not know what could be actually damaged in TMCC or Legacy from applying DC power.  

As others have mentioned, anything that depends on the DC offset for sound control will be a problem, even if the engine its self would run on DC.  

When it comes down to it, pretty much all O gauge trains can be run on DC, if you want to make some modifications, and the same is true of running "DC only" ones on AC.  The main limiting factor here is if you want to keep all the original electronics working correctly.  

For those more knowledgeable on these things, without modification do typical post war engines run on DC?  I'm not sure why they would not, but I don't know if maybe the e-unit has to be wired differently or some such.  I know there is some talk of overheating the e-units on DC power, but not familiar with what causes that either.  

From time to time I've kicked around the idea of using DC power, mostly due to high current DC switching power supplies being so much cheaper than AC transformers, but in the end the cost savings hasn't really worked out with the costs of getting all the trains working correctly.  I still plan on using pretty much free computer power supplies to power lighting and accessories.  

JGL

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