Who is next?

GM went under because they were building cars no one wanted to buy. This is quite the opposite of at least one of the "big two" o guage manufacturers.

so no one can change the original post.

 

I have seen people (not necessarily on the forum) change their original post to make the answer look dumb.

Lionel did almost go out in the 1970's, but they hung on and look at 'em now, I'm not concerned in the least. As long as there is a market for 3-rail 0-gauge trains, somebody will make them.

 

 

There's an APP for that....

I know I have certainly been contributing heavily their survival the last few years and I was really hoping the 'big two' would stick around for a while longer. Unfortunately my LHS had just started to carry Weaver a few months ago and I hadn't gotten to purchase any of their products. The 'big two' had already cleaned me out for the time being, probably at least until the fall catalogs.

Gentlemen,

    Lets hope we do not lose any more of our hobby giants, I sure hated to see this happening with Weaver.  Unlike K-Line there were no legal mistakes made at Weaver, just

the retirement of the main man.  I wish him all the best in his retirement, he sure earned it.  Pa has lost another great business however.

PCRR/Dave

Dale,

I do not see either of the big two calling it quits anytime in the foreseeable future. There are still quite a few smaller companies out there to watch. I will not mention names to avoid seeing this thread deleted.

 

At no other time in my life have I watched so many companies associated with our hobby close their doors. Granted the ones that are still with us changed with the times. There are those who are struggling along. These are the one's who will be gone within the next decade.

Hobby's go through this....

 

Even in video games, there was PONG, Atari, magnevox, Coleco, Sega, Intellivision, NIntendo, Microsoft (Xbox), and Playstation (Sony).

 

After a number of years,  the last 3 are the only ones left... Either the markets fall, or the they go under for a myriad of reasons......

 

Just an analogy that shows it happens to lots of industries.  Based on many variables.  Agree with all the above... But it is a reality.

 

Ben

No control over what happens in the hobby field.........

I have more hobby stuff than I can use in a life time.

Something I need to spend ZERO seconds worrying about.

I would not compare Weavers decision to close shop to K-Line's demise.

Not worried at all about "who's next".  But it will be interesting to see if there's tangible VALUE to Weaver's assets to the point that another entity will buy them.  Or will the assets go unused becoming a part of toy train manufacturing history?

 

David

Originally posted by Happy Pappy:

Dale,

I do not see either of the big two calling it quits anytime in the foreseeable future. There are still quite a few smaller companies out there to watch.

Well I can see the Lionel investors creating a Merger with MTH if the profits get too slim.

I agree with Charlie that K-Line's departure and that of Weaver have no similarities. Nor do I see anything to worry about in terms of having a sufficient base of suppliers to fill our needs for the foreseeable future.

Guys, the state of the hobby had nothing to do with Weaver.   Relax and enjoy the hobby.  If you choose to listen to anyone on this post, listen to Charlienassau.  He knows what he is saying.

 

My regret is I do not have enough Weaver stock, the ones I do have are great and what else, a coupler has yet to pull loose from my Weaver cars.

 

ENJOY YPU RETIRMENT "WEAVER"

 

Brent

"does it concern you that one of the big 2 might go next?"

 

Nope.  Worrying about that sort of  thing detracts from enjoying life as it exists today.

Carpe diem.

With Weaver winding down, there already was a lack of suppliers, for replacement/new

trucks...Lionel archbars dried up, then Weaver's, now Weaver's Bettendorfs and

Roller Bearings.....others on here beside myself were concerned about archbars

disappearing for their projects.  GM just wanted to sell loaded up, big cars.  Public

is/was buying (I am buying) reported reliable fuel efficient cars.  I am not sure the big two care much about the "details", the small stuff, in the market, or are going to

be able, or want to, provide them at the best price (re: Lionel archbars).

What we did get from K-Line and Weaver, and Williams, and even Industrial Rail, etc., was innovation, new prototypes.  True, some of us are in niches, out of the mainstream, if that is what it is.

Every time there is some kind of shake up in the hobby"The sky is falling" i don't see any shortage of trains,track or anything else in our hobby well past most of our lifetimes. As far as the big two I don't see them going anywhere any time soon.  Lionel is celebrating there 115th anaversery and Mike is going on 35 years of building his own train empire!  I can see one of the smaller train company's dropping out before the big two will! 

Geez, what about Flyer, Ives, Marx and countless other O gauge makers who are out of business? O gauge still survives.

 

Enjoy yourself "Mr. Weaver!"

Unless I missed it, Weaver is not closing based on  their viability as a business.  The owner simply wanted to retire.  I'm sad that they are closing, but not because of their absence in the hobby market.  I don't know how many folks worked at Weaver, but i assume many are now having to seek employment elsewhere. I just hope everyone impacted  is able to make the transition to new emplyment without too much grief. That is the sad part of this closing. There are more trains out there than most of us could ever use in a lifetime.  

 

Ed 

On the upside: There are plenty of trains out there :-)

 

Bachmann is probably bigger than Lionel and MTH combined when you consider their world wide sales.  Bachmann trains are everywhere.  Bachmann is already active in two segments of the USA O gauge market with its On30 trains and Williams brand.  I could see Bachmann moving into other O gauge USA markets as well.  There will be plenty of new trains  for everyone.

 

There are also plenty of new in the box trains on the secondary market.  I have seen piles of Weaver models new in the box at recent train shows.  

 

Joe

 

One does not just retire and walk away from a viable business. Williams sold for the price of an expensive home on the east end of Long Island, but it still was sold. There is probably another story as to why what is being done at Weaver is the option of choice.

Model Power was not strictly O gauge, but they recently closed up shop and were gone for only a short time before MRC purchased them and re-started production of their line of products. It's very possible this will happen to Weaver as well, so we may not be losing anyone. We will just have to be patient and wait to see what happens.

"No control over what happens in the hobby field.........

I have more hobby stuff than I can use in a life time.

Something I need to spend ZERO seconds worrying about."

 

  Ain't that the truth. I got more stuff in three different scales than I need to model the rest of my life.Just have to decide which to go with :> .....DaveB

Kader Industries, Bachmanns parent company could buy Lionel or MTH if an opportunity was to happen and if their owner felt there was a financial upside. Kader Industries is the largest electric train company in the world when you consider their brands in N gauge, HO gauge, and O gauge. It wasn't to long ago that Kader Industries was manufacturing Lionel and Atlas products before they acquired Bachmann.

OK guys...keep this on topic.  The subject at hand has nothing to do with how long the U.S. has been a nation or for that matter how long Lionel has been around....

 

By the way... sometimes an owner of a company REALLY does want to retire.  I can assure you without elaborating that Weaver (Joe) is not closing because the business was not viable and making a profit.... 

 

Alan

Wow; that was certainly a ride out into the woods.

 

Back to Weaver: it is nice to hear from an informed someone (Alan) say that the business was viable and profitable. That is encouraging, if only in a non-specific way. Perhaps a competent someone or group of competent someones will purchase the business and

continue its existence - not as a museum piece, but as a healthy, evolving manufacturing enterprise.

 

The loss of the Weaver brass steamer line bothers me greatly, though I got the impression that it may have been shrinking (at least) already. Just my thoughts; no facts to back it up. Of course, the brass pieces weren't made in Pennsylvania, anyway - but I don't live anywhere near PA, myself, so...I didn't really care.

 

Weaver was also accessible. THAT is valuable.

 

Exactly, I remember when Madison Hardware in New York was closing simply because the owner(s) had decided it was time to retire. This does not signal a problem with the hobby as a whole.

 

 

Ed, there are currently 7 employees counting Joe. They all plan to stay til the end. All are busy filling orders, and doing final assembly of whatever rolling stock is left. 

Don

I would not be concerned about the demise of "the big 2", because such an event or events might make many of the items in my collection more valuable.

 

 

 

 

What, me worry? 

I did, back in 2000, after 15 years.  My music career was starting to take off.

I could afford to, so I closed the business, and sold the assets; manufacturing machines, building, and other related equipment.   I had a few serious bites to buy me out, but all of the deals required me to stay on, hands on, for a year.   I was not interested in that.

 

So I sold of the pieces and parts, so to speak, to others in the same industry I was in.

 

There's a lot more technical stuff, obviously, that went into what I did, but that's the gist of it.  I just wanted to do something else.  The business was fine.

"Who is going to absorb Weaver's Freight Car molds?"

 

"Who is going to make Scale Coat 1 and 2 paints now?"

 

"Who is able to print and paint like they did at Weaver?"

 

Andrew

I think all the companies will stay alive. But I would be concerned with Atlas, changing their manufacturer in China and having issues with production for a while. But everything has been settled, and they are still gonna produce stuff.

Now that MTH is in bed with Lionel making the Lionel Corporation standard gauge stuff, they're almost like the same company with different names.

 

And I'll bet each company dosen't wanna step on each others toes by coming out with the same products.

The compettion between both companies is dead.

I mean, look at both of their catalogs.  What one company makes the other won't.

I'm surpized that nobody has raised this collaboration as being questionable.

No doubt its legal but it sure cuts down on the ability of the consumer to choose between buying the best of the same type train locomotive or car from either manufacturer.

Your kidding, right?  (You are right about the tinplate collaboration, but that doesn't make it illegal or even wrong)

 

Lionel and MTH went through that phase when they were continuously offering similar products (or at least head-liner products) to one another in each catalog. 

 

Some of that was in the "mid level" expansion years when there was much more offered than the late 90's, but less than the gazillion products in each catalog that we are at now.  Some people even assumed Lionel's shift in catalog release month over the last 5 years (maybe more) was to prevent MTH from offering the same thing in their next catalog.  For quite a few years the Lionel catalog used to come out around January/July, only more recently have they shifted into March-April and Sept-Oct.

 

More recently, remember this little series called the Heritage program?  Each manufacturer made a whole heck of a lot of those models (I am not about to cross check them all, but there has to be quite a bit of overlap there).

 

-Dave

I dont understand the fascination of wondering who is going out next? Support them and you wont have to worry about it.

LOL, Lionel and MTH are NOT in bed with each other. The Tinplate agreement between the two companies came about as a result of MTH lawsuit against Lionel.

 

   Bill T.

 

 

I just again flipped through , and did several times prior to the close of ordering periods, the recent catalogs acquired in April.  Barring a few passenger cars, what in there was new? The steam locomotives in both look like repros both have offered before.  What is a new prototype?  For a while there, they weren't both dancing in the same small circle.  This catalog we offer the Big Boy, next catalog you offer the Big Boy, next catalog we offer the streamlined Hudson, next after that you do....!!!!!!!!!!!

Break outta that mold!  Plenty of trains?  Sure, plenty of the same old same old....

I've already addressed parts....this is why Weaver's loss is of concern.