Why Do We Feel The Need To Have Young People Take Up Our Hobby?

My 4 year old Grand Daughter running the S&Y RR. If she follows the other grandkids she will move on to other electronic gizmos in a few more years and leave the trains behind.

I have been a railfan from as early as I can remember. Kids are curious and interested in whatever is happening around them, especially if it is in motion. Dad was a railfan and took me with him train watching so my native interest&curiosity  naturally focused on trains.  Being a railfan is the other pathway to a life-long interest in model railroading. 

Lew

Bill T posted:

My 4 year old Grand Daughter running the S&Y RR. If she follows the other grandkids she will move on to other electronic gizmos in a few more years and leave the trains behind.

Maybe true Bill, but you'll always have the memories and the pictures.

I gave my 12 year old grandson, who was adopted from Ukraine at age 11, an MTH Crescent Limited 4-6-2 and Lionel cars to match. Unfortunately my operating briefing was incomplete. He had a derailment and did the rerail with full power still applied - the ensuing sparks which as we know can be spectacular, scared him and worse, his mom (my daughter) so I doubt it’s been run since. Don’t make my mistake! Be sure you do a full briefing on the nature of electricity. My daughter who grew up around my trains now thinks they are a fire hazard... End of my $400 investment (track, cars, power) not counting the gift of the 4-6-2.

Bill T,

Your beautiful granddaughter will have warm memories of running trains on your layout. It could very well be that, after she has tried the other gizmos out, that she will return to trains when she is older.

My oldest daughter falls squarely into that much derided "millennial" generation, and she's getting married this fall. She and her fiancee came for a visit last weekend, probably the last we'll see them before the big day. They both asked me if they could have a train set for Christmas.

There appears to be an increasingly convincing amount of evidence that suggests that electronic screens are addictive, whether they are used for TV shows, games, or 'net/social media.  The brain becomes wired to crave the visual stimuli, and it is trained to respond accordingly.  The human eye has always been attracted to movement, the more movement, the more forceful the attraction.  These activities tend to support an inherent tendency toward solipsism, too, which, I think, helps to explain certain social ills growing in seriousness and number.

  I wouldn't call it a need to have young people take up a hobby (any hobby) rather I think it is a situation where an individual's pursuit of a hobby has brought them a sense of satisfaction/accomplishment/respite from the day/etc. and they make an attempt to interest young people in that hobby in the hopes that the hobby will do the same thing for them.

My dad and one grandfather was a railroader, and l lived on Depot Lane. My great aunt was postmistress, and hung the bag on the post every morning, across from station.  How many kids today have that experience or similar?  In the largest cities they are exposed to commuter trains.  I am sure they are just part of their scenery. The rest of the country...?  I rode many a mile in a grandfather's pre-WWII vehicles. There is a small core group that loves those vehicles, and trains, and model trains.  Each of those core groups will carry on. Sadly, they are all smaller.  And there are members that had no childhood exposure to any of them.  All too soon that will be all left.  Watch Antique Road Show and see oddball fragments of history that are collected.  As long as there are trains, there will be model trains.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bill T posted:

My 4 year old Grand Daughter running the S&Y RR. If she follows the other grandkids she will move on to other electronic gizmos in a few more years and leave the trains behind.

Maybe true Bill, but you'll always have the memories and the pictures.

Couldn't have said it better myself. My girls, at the moment, are obsessed with my trains and I will take advantage of every second while I still can. Hopefully they don't grow out of it, but if they do, the trains will be there for their kids and so forth. For now I look at these photos and nothing else matters:

Bill, looks like me and you are living the life with these beautiful girls! Enjoy them my friend!

Starting them young Dan, really cute!

Absolutely John, its either this or watching Paw Patrol or some trash like that LOL, I'd much rather them here with the trains using there imaginations.

P.s. I've been tracking your layout progress, can't wait till you can finally get off the carpet my friend, it is coming together beautifully though.

Thanks!

One of my earliest model train WOW moments as a kid was seeing my uncle Bud’s Lionel NYC A-B-A pulling passenger cars in his attic.  I enjoy running trains and I enjoy discussing them with other modelers, but for me the absolute most fun is seeing the excitement on kids faces when they ask “When can we see the trains?” or seeing THEIR first WOW moment when they see the trains for the first time.  There is absolutely nothing like it.  For the last few years, I have been running trains in my attic for my uncle Bud’s great grandchildren.  I’m pretty sure that at least a few of them will take up the hobby.

Dan Gonzalez,

Cherish these days with your daughters. They go by very fast and they don't come back. Try not to let work or other things get in the way. No man ever said from his deathbed" I wish I had spent more time at the office".

There are practical reasons I can think of:

• History. By bringing young people into the hobby, we pass on historical information on real railroads they otherwise would not have full access to. Prototype railroads built this country's expansion by expediting the movement of people, goods, and information (mail service). Towns and cities developed around railroad routes. Though some events related to the railroads' history and expansion might be considered questionable by today's standards, the overall is a net positive in this country's growth.
• Education on Prototype. Hopefully, we can convey to them rail safety, its impact on domestic and international commerce and the practical issues of how rail transportation works in general.
• Passing on skill sets not readily learned in school today. When I was in school (when dinosaurs roamed the earth), we had wood, metal, and electric shop classes. These skill sets have helped me over the years both in and out of the hobby. Modernly, schools have gotten away from "blue collar" practical skills, choosing to focus on either STEM (not necessarily a bad thing) or a "humanities" / political correctness curriculum (opinion). Additionally, the modeling skills have practical applications outside the hobby as you learn how to build stuff.
• Passing on our trains. My efforts at cloning myself aside, it's apparent I won't be around forever. So giving the younger generation an appreciation of the hobby means the trains have somewhere to go after we're gone, and hopefully they'll be passed on before ending up in some collection or recycled into some other products. A couple of our younger members were conspiring on how to separate me from some items in my collection -- I was so proud of them!
• Sharing our time. Kids need time with their parents and/or adult role models. OK, maybe we're questionable role models at times, but the mentorship aspect of spending time with kids -- teaching them the benefits of cooperation and interaction rather than video games is beneficial (opinion).
• Building an empire. OK, maybe not in the Bond Villain megalomaniac sense, but the hobby allows one to use their creative talents to build a small world they have some element of control over -- an outlet/temporary escape from the real world where they have little control. Great stress relief.

I'm sure I could think of more stuff, but it's early out here and I haven't had my morning coffee.

When I was younger, real trains were interesting, with a variety of rolling stock and paint schemes and car types, etc. Nowadays, real trains are a bore: stack trains, endless coal and oil trains, all alike. Doesn't excite a desire to replicate in miniature.

Because we can!  I doubt she’ll ever be a diehard like me.   However she’ll remember my love of it when she remembers he dad.   And that’s ok with me.   

When children are young (pre-teen) they crave something more that screen time - their parent's attention! My father shared his time with me and I shared my time with my children. My father has been gone  about 5 years now and when I think about him my memories go right back to the time he spent with me doing hobby things such as models, trains, etc...

Obviously kids need to be interested in hobbies but doing them WITH your kids makes all the difference!

The title drug me in.  I think it is the same impulse that drives folks to convert others to their favored religion, or political outlook.  I personally never cared to convert others to 17/64, but I recall meeting a fanatic proselytizer for Proto-48.  Just like a religious zealot.  I couldn't get away fast enough.

But sure - show the kids a few hobbies.  Just hope they can keep it under control.  Sometimes I wonder what I could have done by channeling more of my spare time into the study of physics or something.  

It is always the belief of someone older to pass on good things to those that are younger. Whether it happens or not is always the catch.

BUCKSCO made the best point .

If it is only the running or operating of model trains that the pleasure is derived, most people will quickly move on from model trains.  The hours my 42 year old layout has been operated is less than 5% of the time that was enjoyed in planning,  building, procuring and modifying it.

The same can be said by me of my teenage building and flying 049 and later Fox 35 powered U control model airplanes, free flight air planes, my 2 year scratch building of a 36 inch scale, tube run radio control Coast Guard cutter, and etc.  As for the Fox 35 U control planes, the cost of fuel and time to fly when neighbor shift workers were not sleeping in the day time limited time flying too.  The same can be said for my other main hobby of vintage stereo gear from the 1970s.  Most time and most enjoyment is in hunting, procuring, repairing, seeking media to play and setting up and testing the gear.  Those functions are more rewarding than simply listening for hours at a time.  Most listening occurs during the Christmas season.

My point is just the thrill or experience of running model trains will not be enough to keep many interested for a long period of time. Model trains today have much more competition than in the past for the young folks attention.

For me and my family, the train running of the childhood family layout was down on the living room floor for the two weeks of Christmas and them put away until next year. 

For over thirty years my existing layout was down on the family room floor for a the months of Dec and Jan and taken up until next year as it would not be use much the rest of the year and took up most of the room!  This limited exposure and the fun of looking forward to coming back next season added to keep the trains for getting old fast and helped keep up interest for years.

Charlie

BILL T: She may eventually move on in another direction, but, I'd bet she will always remember Grandpa letting her run his trains! Thanks for sharing and enjoy the good times, as always.

Rusty

Daniel Gonzalez and Jeremy Ferrell: Have fun and make some good memories, that they, and, yourself will always remember!

Rusty

Another practical point - availability of new items.  With a smaller market, items will be pricier or the market abandoned for greener pastures.  You are lucky if you limit your tastes to post war, MPC, or some such since there will always be a secondary market.  I don't for see growth in our numbers, but if we can curtail the shrinking . . .

Brendan

i just turned 24  and for me as well as a friend of mine who is 19 when the holidays come around we get train fever and start pondering trains we want.

i've been fascinated with trains my whole life and kids at school thought i was wierd because instead of video games or what not like everyone else wanted i was wanting a train set or an engine or something train related for christmas

when class got super boring i would sketch out layout plans on loose leaf until i got caught by the teacher

i believe the hobby needs more folks like me who have a deep passion for trains

The pleasure of operating trains is enough for me. I run my layout several hours a week mainly on the weekends. My favorites are my legacy engines followed by TMCC and conventional after that. I can run more than one train on my loop, if they are Legacy or TMCC, and I just sit back and let them run. 

So we’ll have someone to sell to.

Like so many others who have posted earlier when my grandkids come over no doubt I will hear “Grandpa can we go upstairs and play with the trains”. These words bring happiness to me as they are making memories for both of us. They enjoy pushing the No 90 controller buttons and watching the accessories in action, or sometimes the younger ones just like pushing the buttons as fast and as many as they can to just hear the sounds. Full throttle operation seems to be always the norm. This is fine with me as they are having a blast doing so.

We were at the Somerset County 4H fair yesterday and there was a tent with a big modular O gauge layout set up by the Somerset County 4H Trainmasters; a club made up of a group of youngsters. It was refreshing to see this, so why do we feel the need for young people to take up our hobby?  If they do not, an important part of our history will be lost and forgotten.

This may not be a popular viewpoint, but to me: Why should I be made to feel as if it's my responsibility to "grow" this hobby as well as introduce young people to it?

Personally, I will be involved in model railroading in whatever form I can: New product (if available), secondary market (for desired items out of production), vintage (if desired and/or can be made usable), kit bashed and/or scratch bashed/built (IF no other way).

That's because trains have been a part of me before I can even remember. Trains and railroading is in my blood, and I will always and forever be interested in trains. You can't INSTILL that into folks. It's either there or it isn't, and oft times even those that such is in... can't tell you why.

So, the hobbyist should help "promote" and "grow" this hobby?

Frankly, it's not my worry. It's up to those that derive income from the hobby to promote it for their own gains. Not mine.

My "Prime Directive" in regards to this hobby?

Simple: To enjoy it and have fun.

There's more product in my chosen scale than I will EVER be able to acquire even a minuscule PORTION of. No way, ever.

For decades railroading was my avocation, then my vocation, and now I'm retired on RR retirement. Railroading produced my family-supporting income, and railroading was my way of life. And though railroading was work, I loved it. Those days are behind me.

By huge contrast, model trains are my HOBBY.  There's a HUGE difference between model trains being one's hobby and deriving income from the hobby. In the past I made the mistake of making my hobby of model trains also become a source of income via custom assembly/detail/paint/decals/etc, as well as professionally designing and installing model train layouts commercially.

Doing so nearly ruined my hobby.

Even after shutting down those endeavors, it took a couple years for the enjoyment of my hobby of model trains to return.

SO... those of you (hobbyists) that feel motivated to promote and grow this hobby: More power to you. Have at it.

Just remember: Though a hobbyist may feel it's their personal mission and moral responsibility to "promote and grow" the hobby... BUT...

It ain't mine. Further, I'm not having any part of any idea that it should be. (AND... I highly suspect there are throngs of others hobbyists that feel the same way.)

As a hobbyist, MY goal is simple: To have fun. Along the way that means CONSUME available product that others depend on selling in order to survive. Thus, it's THEIR responsibility to grow their own market, not mine.

Sure glad General Motors, or Ford Motor Co, or any other manufacturer/producer of goods aimed at a market, don't try to guilt-trip us consumers into feeling obligated to helping them promote and grow THEIR market.

No, such a phenomenon seems to be unique to certain segments of the hobby industry. (Which I suspect is primarily pushed by the SUPPLIERS of said hobby for their own purposes.)

SO... I'm a hobbyist and I will always be in this for personal gain: To have fun.  To quote Major Payne: "That's my 'business', and business is goood!"

Andre

Kids haven't changed - their environment has.

The phones are just a distraction because they're the easiest things to deal with. We used to go out to play. Then TV came along. Then both parents started working, and the VCR / DVR became our babysitter. The phones are just the next step in the chain.

Kids, physiologically, have a need to get involved with things. Our club layout has kids visit every weekend, and the kids are glued to the trains. Amazing that we don't have more kid layouts in the area. But that's not easy for the parents, so they get shipped off to organized play dates or sports teams, which evolve into traveling teams, etc. But the parents can't spend time on the floor or next to a layout the way our folks did. Life is too busy.

It's not just trains, either. I'm big into recreational aviation. Our local chapter of the Experimental Aircraft Association hosted a weekend aviation camp (day camp only) in June. The HS-age kids LOVED getting hands-on, learning how to drill, rivet, bend metal, etc. Hands on activities were cited as the best part of their weekend.

There is hope....

Trains have always been my passion for the past 66 years from when I was five. I'm now 72. It is the one hobby I have enjoyed consistently all these years. A lot of good points have been made here. Maybe there is no one answer that is right. Maybe growing the hobby should be looked at from a slightly different angle. Why narrow it to say just young people. After all look at the age spread and this is truely a hobby for all ages and it is not just a boys only hobby too. Also people get into the hobby later in life. This a a great hobby to be in but the competion from the technical end of what is being brought out makes it hard. With trains there are different levels of what you can do. One thing for sure you can learn a lot of skills from building your own layout. Most of them enjoyable, some not ...wiring for me "UGH'. I'm going through a stage where I am enjoying building the layout more then running trains right now. That is not to say that every so often I go to the attic layout and just sit and watch some trains running. If by chance the hobby starts to wane it is because the more inovative things that are coming along interest the younger generations more....................Paul 2 

paigetrain posted:

i just turned 24  and for me as well as a friend of mine who is 19 when the holidays come around we get train fever and start pondering trains we want.

i've been fascinated with trains my whole life and kids at school thought i was wierd because instead of video games or what not like everyone else wanted i was wanting a train set or an engine or something train related for christmas

when class got super boring i would sketch out layout plans on loose leaf until i got caught by the teacher

i believe the hobby needs more folks like me who have a deep passion for trains

I'm 29 and have a similar backstory.  The margins in my school notebooks were full of switching patterns and layout sections with notes figuring out the wiring for activating different accessories.  Ever adding to that Postwar dream layout that would never fit on the 4x8ft table I was allowed

Nobody mentored me, I had supportive parents, but often I felt looked down upon by others in the hobby because I was so young.  So I ended up doing my own thing and figuring it out as I went.

So my thought is, those who are interested will find the hobby, and we should just be willing to answer questions when someone asks.

...and this forum is great, I've been a reader for probably 5 years now.

I'm 34. Does that count as "young"? If so I'm involved.

When my nephews (3&5) come over they love to see the trains run. First thing they ask after they walk in the door is to have me turn the trains on. I make them wait till after dinner, otherwise we'd be running trains for hours. They live in a condo so there is no room for anything beyond some wooden Thomas trains. An O gauge starter set isn't fitting.

One challenge with young people is that "real" trains aren't very integrated into modern society.  Here in the West, perhaps a long string of containers or hoppers makes one late for work.  The Railroad scene seems homogeneous and sterile compared to the transition era as depicted in the books I had as a child, or even the decaying artifacts of that era that were still visible trackside during my childhood.

I'm not too young to think about what I might do in retirement.  Maybe I'll volunteer as a docent?  But I wonder whether people who grew up without seeing, or reading about steam locomotives and passenger trains will come to places like Hamburg (RCT&HS) and Strasburg (RR Museum of PA?)  These are the trains I love, and inspire me to model.  But will the younger generations appreciate them!?

I have nine grandchildren and I built a Thomas table for them it's been used by all of them over the years I let them into the "Train" room and give them a box of figures to play with the next day there are figures and seats and all kinds of things all over the layout I only let them run the trains if I'm in the room as it's an end to end layout and the trains have to stop sooner or later but they play in the room and look at things they won't switch on anything unless I'm there it's not a problem I notice the two oldest don't have a lot of interest in trains anymore and find our place boring (No TV or electronic devices in our house) and the computer stays off at least I had them out hiking with me a few weeks ago so that was good. Roo.

Fellas-it's the change in times...You cannot over come it.When we were kids my father liked trains and got the trains out at Christmas- but he did not make a special effort to make us like trains. Here's the rub....we played "outside" (sarcastic punt intended) we played "far" from home OUTSIDE. Which meant we found  RR tracks-walked on them- threw rocks-picked up old RR spikes-watched trains go by-put a nickel on the track then got it back when the train passed. So trains were part of our lifes-we were part of there's... SOOO on a rainy day -Trains - Tonka trucks and hot wheels "WERE" our Tablets and Video games of todays times. Nick

 Oldest Grandson

He's one of those kids that has attached a couple of different behavioral titles.  Our world today tends to do that.   I had not operated my layout for some time, he was able to get it up and running for the younger grand kids.  Today was one of those transportation day, he'll be a senior this fall, summer job, as a lifeguard, at the local YMCA.  He's a member of the swim team.  We talked about college. We talked about his truck, a donation from his other Grandparents.   He has mentioned college, being a chemical engineer.    He left the model trains, some time ago, though he has done some interesting model airplane work, on his own, with RC controllers, and all the servo mechanics.  I'm O.K. with all this.  Sometimes I see myself 60 years ago.   Mike CT. 

Ted S posted:

I wonder whether people who grew up without seeing, or reading about steam locomotives and passenger trains will come to places like Hamburg (RCT&HS) and Strasburg (RR Museum of PA?)  These are the trains I love, and inspire me to model.  But will the younger generations appreciate them!?

I'm not young (47) but I'm definitely not old enough to remember steam engines or passenger trains.  And yet, here I am.  That said, I think your point is valid.  I share your concern and I'm sure the hobby's numbers will be smaller for just that reason.

By and large, this is an old guy hobby.  If you expose kids to it, they'll pick it up.. a few decades from now.

I recall as a youngster, when reading the model train magazines, It was all old guys in them.  I didn't see any kids or young people'... in the mags.  I see plenty of kids at the shows around the country.  I would think some will get into the hobby.  In time and as time goes by, sooner or later they will tire of video games. If they still have any imagination left... they'll be fine.  Of course the products will also still have to be available'...

One of the key points mentioned is the fact that parents  'don't have the time' or don't interact with their children much the way our parent did way back when. 

The point of having a child is to love them, nurture them, expose then to the world. When you leave them to the 'electronic babysitters', they lose that creativity, imagination and become introverted. 

My son is not your typical kid - loves to be outside playing basketball, biking; loves Legos and Hot Wheels. Loves to be with me and his mother. If I'm stepping out to run an errand or swing by the firehouse (I'm a volunteer firefighter) he will jump in the car with me. If I'm in the train room he'll hang with me and run the trains. If he's outside shooting baskets, I'll go outside and shoot some with him. 

He's not passionate as I am over trains  - his passion is coins, science and cars. But that's ok with me.

The takeaway is that truly spending time with children - talking with them, doing things with them and exposing them to different aspects of life, hopefully down the road, they'll want to do the same with their children.

I don't. That doesn't mean I wouldn't try and help or encourage some youngun' who showed interest, but I'm not going recruiting.

No one in my family had any interest in trains, but I acquired one at a very early age....not even sure how, where, or why, but it happened. I think if it's meant to be, it will occur one way or another. The old "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." applies, I think.

Simon

A couple key points people are missing:

1. This hobby isn't cheap. If someone is looking to get into the hobby a decent starter set is around $200. Not a whole lot of people have hundreds of dollars lying around leftover from their budget to spend on expensive hobbies, especially people in their teen years, early 20's, or those just starting a family. In high school, undergrad, and my master's program I was out of the hobby as I didn't have the extra money or time to spend on it. Several years out of school I now do.

2. Space. If one doesn't have a house with a basement it's hard to find the space to build a layout. Many younger people live in apartments, possibly with roommates. They may not have the space for a layout. 

These are probably 2 of the biggest factors in limiting entrance into the hobby. Think back to when you were young. It would have been pretty hard to justify dropping $1500 on a locomotive. As people advance through their careers (and age) they end up earning more and having some disposable income, hence why there are more older people in an expensive hobby.

I'm 28, couple railroading friends, one baby.

I concur with several points made. I don't recruit either, and I don't feel obligated to.

It's hard to fault kids or parents choices when trains are selling for $200-to crazy money, and a used video game is $25. Plus, video games can build cooperation and problem solving in ways a very budget layout could never do - lots of bang for the buck.

I also feel like the roundy-round layouts lose interest. Prototype operations have a purpose and attract a certain type of person, regardless of age. I think a significant number of airsofters or reenactors could come to the hobby to operate a model train in realistic manner.

Griff Murphey posted:

I gave my 12 year old grandson, who was adopted from Ukraine at age 11, an MTH Crescent Limited 4-6-2 and Lionel cars to match. Unfortunately my operating briefing was incomplete. He had a derailment and did the rerail with full power still applied - the ensuing sparks which as we know can be spectacular, scared him and worse, his mom (my daughter) so I doubt it’s been run since. Don’t make my mistake! Be sure you do a full briefing on the nature of electricity. My daughter who grew up around my trains now thinks they are a fire hazard... End of my $400 investment (track, cars, power) not counting the gift of the 4-6-2.

Not only a complete briefing, but often it's helpful after an incident to immediately recreate the incident with the student, and go though the proper steps showing him what to do, maybe laugh a little and put him at ease. If a student has an incident that frightens him, often the best thing is to immediately repeat it and go over it, and let the student understand what to do and be confident and not afraid of what happened. Otherwise, sometimes the student stays scared and won't engage in the activity any more.

When I think younger, I think of people in their 40s or 50s. Those who might buy sets for their kids.  Without those people, the hobby will die.  

A lot of good thoughts here (and one or two absurd ones). Mostly good though. As with any aspect of our lives it is usually the result of many forces and factors. Two that haven't been mentioned here are: First the cost of trains as a percent of income as compared to say 1950. There is a significant disparity there. Two is that in many parts of the country trains are not a visible part of our everyday life as they were 70 years ago. Many of the communities that were served by rail are now served by trucks, and passenger service is almost non-existent. People don't see trains as a part of their everyday life. In fact, think how many people on this forum frequently ask what color ballast should I use or what color should I paint the rails? For me it's a no brainer with the CSX main line 4 miles away, but not so easy for many here. My two cents worth.

I think one other thing that is going for the hobby is real trains. Granted as stated above not many people are them with their daily lives. With excursion trains being the only main way to see anything, this is where the seed may be planted. I know the BR&W by me always has events for the kids. Last year's Railfest had a few working layouts. I know Christmas time is especially hot for the Railroad as Santa starts in November sometime.

My dad introduced me and brother very young into trains. I vaguely remember being 3 yrs old going to see PRR 1223 on her last weekend running at Strasburg. I do however remember very well taking my finger and running it down the gold paint on the driver spokes and then attempting to give it a taste, much to my mom's pure horror. (Thanks dad for paying more attention to the fireman shoving coal)

Since then, I have pursued a career in railroading, now modeling O scale hi-rail trains, and also going to see and operate trains whenever the opportunity arrises.

My brother took to hosting railroad photo charters, and brings his two kids to Strasburg every chance he gets. They've even built their own little layout, and custom painted models for each member of our family.

I can't thank my dad enough for exposing us to something that has become such a critical and therapeutic part of my life. Not to mention, my way of life income wise. I'm 32 now, if the time ever comes that I have kids of my own, you better believe trains WILL be a part of the family.

A train layout is a wonderful way to teach children about their community.

With houses and businesses, churches and schools, fire stations and hospitals, restaurants and sports fields, the child has a chance to see the many parts of their home town.

A good economy may mean a new railroad siding for new industries that employ their neighbors.  A train station offers a place to start a journey to other places. 

And older steam engines can take them back in history to when in-door plumbing had not replaced the outhouse.  Ugh gross.  Really Dad?  They sat over a hole in the ground?  What do you mean no electricity?  They had to hand-pump their water?  Eggs come from chickens on the farm?  No cell phone towers?  How did they operate their computers?

There are many lessons building a railroad can teach, even to those of us much older.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Lot of good, thoughtful answers here. I think part of the answer is people are looking back to when they were kids and the path that has led them and others to 'come back' to 3 rail as adults, and assume that the same thing is important for the future of the hobby. Even on the scale side of things, in N and HO, you read a lot of narratives in Model Railroader and other places how the person 'got into" N or HO as a kid, then got into cars and girls and whatnot, then went to school, got married, etc, then came back as they got older. With O three rail many of us did have them as kids (I am in my mid 50's now, so I missed the 'peak' of the PW Lionel experience, but I inherited trains from my brother), then did come back. I think with the introduce kids to it the idea is even if the kid doesn't get into it then, they will have seen it, and the bug will hit later, and I think there is truth to that. I don't share the picture of young kids today, that they are somehow defective because they aren't in to trains, it must be the internet, must be social media and video games, they are 'easy', etc, I think simply that as always has been, there are other distractions. Back in the 1950's, kid hit their teens, and it was often cars that caught them, or sports, or dating , or doing more in the outside world as they got older...and back then, it was television that was turning them into mindless idiots in the 'great wasteland' as the head of the FCC called it in the early 60's.

I think anything we can do to sell the hobby, to kids and their parents, is important, not just because train companies make money out of things like starter sets that allows them to produce other things, but because some kids will enjoy it, and not to mention the parents might get interested, does happen. 

One thing, while trains are obviously an expensive toy, as has been written on here many times they always were, back in the golden age there was a reason Lionel produced things like the scout set and had lower end engines, it was because the PW products were pretty expensive relative to salaries at the time. We think of the layouts we have today, but with kids back then they would get new items for their birthday or Christmas or whatnot, a new switch would be a big deal, a new freight car, engines were a big deal (I was lucky, I got into trains in the early 70's, back when people were selling PW stuff for nothing, 50 bucks and you got a ton of stuff, so price wasn't better back then, it is just that the trains were a hot item and kids would get things piecemeal.

Keep in mind, too, that the hobby has changed a great deal, it is not really a 'toy' any more, even the semi scale stuff is a lot more intricate than most things in the PW period, and the upper end engines, while in relatively price not that far off from the top end of the PW era, offer scale fidelity and features kids could only dream of back then. 

If I was going to retitle the thread, it would be something familiar that we need to bring 'new blood' into the hobby, rather than necessarily 'young people' alone. Introducing young people is about planting a seed for the future, the other part is getting new people into the hobby of various ages, so there is a base in the future. I have to agree that with trains across the board it tends to be an older hobby and remembering back when I started reading train magazines in the mid 70's, it always was a hobby of those in their 30's on up, with more than a few gray hairs in it, too.

In some ways there is a parallel with something else I know more than a bit about, classical music, it has the same concerns with 'aging out' of its audience, but I have read articles from a long time ago that talked about the same thing,so perhaps it always has been something older people tended to be attracted to. Another parallel is people worry because thanks to what has happened in schools, with tight budgets and the like, arts/music teaching has been cut back or slashed, so kids may not be exposed to what kids in earlier generations were, and they worry they won't then pick it up later....much like we worry that kids aren't exposed to trains that much, aren't exposed to the model versions either, and thus will never get interested. 

modeltrainsparts posted:

A lot of good thoughts here (and one or two absurd ones). Mostly good though. As with any aspect of our lives it is usually the result of many forces and factors. Two that haven't been mentioned here are: First the cost of trains as a percent of income as compared to say 1950. There is a significant disparity there. 

Are trains more expensive or less expensive now?

Gas was a quarter a gallon, a hundred bucks a week was a decent salary, a car cost (maybe) a couple of  thousand dollars and depending on where you lived, a house might have been 4 figures. Not counting pennies.

And going to see the Phillies was painful no matter what it cost. Still is.

Gerry 

"I'm not young (47)"

Depends on perspective.

When i first introduced our children they loved the small 2 track 4x8 layout even had a pair of and still do today of 2343 F3s that i hand painted there names on each of the shells that were in pour shape.

Took them to some train shows but nowadays they do not go by them as they have busy lives otherwise.

Without a proportion of the younger generation having an interest as we depart what will eventually happen in my opinion does not look good for model trains as sales will eventually decline .

DaveP posted:

One of the key points mentioned is the fact that parents  'don't have the time' or don't interact with their children much the way our parent did way back when. 

The point of having a child is to love them, nurture them, expose then to the world. When you leave them to the 'electronic babysitters', they lose that creativity, imagination and become introverted. 

He's not passionate as I am over trains  - his passion is coins, science and cars. But that's ok with me.

The takeaway is that truly spending time with children - talking with them, doing things with them and exposing them to different aspects of life, hopefully down the road, they'll want to do the same with their children.

DaveP,

Very well stated!

Aside from all the other alternatives now available to kids and adults, trains are no longer important. Do kids play with any TOYS today? Please name a few. I have 10 grand children, and I think they have been mostly wedded to their "screens".

Over the years on this forum, I've gotten the impression that some of you "worry" about getting new blood into the hobby so that new goodies will continue to be produced for you...or so someone will be there to purchase your stuff.

One of my grandsons was my "train buddy" from 6 months old to 7 years old. We played with trains, watched train videos, and took MANY trips to Strasburg (often over-nighters). But at around age 7, he no longer showed any interest (including "visiting" my layout). Frankly, this does not bother me at all, since this is just one of MY many hobbies.

I build some of my old plastic models with my grandson weekly in the summer, I put on the glue, he does the assembly. Last year he set up two loops of Lionel for Christmas. He is a fanatic Lego builder and easily does the 16 and up ones. I think he will always build something.

As a dentist myself, at age 70, I think the new generation of dentists who are not taught lab work in  school nor subjected to the infamous chalk carving test for dental school admission, don't have the hands us old ones do. Selling a lot of work is the strong point they have, I think.

My take on it is our own fears that the hobby will die off after we are gone.  But i think we are just in a "down' cycle and the hobby will grow again as the next round of modelers retire and become more active.  In today's society, there is precious little time to attend train shows or frequent the remaining hobby shops.  So many of the younger modelers are "hidden" from the older generation.  The younger ones do not need or have time for the socializing part that many of us are used to doing, be it at shows, the hobby shop or local club.   Modern technology has enabled them to model behind the scenes so to speak. Pretty much anything one might need is available from ones own smartphone.  One can order and pay for it while on break at work, or while laying in bed after putting the kids down for the night.  One day these "hidden" younger modelers will slowly come out of the woodwork as they retire and become more socialy active in the hobby.  Atleast that is my take on it from taking to others and setting up a layout at shows.  I see many younger folk having an interest in the hobby, is it as many as it was 10 or 15 years ago, no, but still an interest.   

We as an active hobbiest need to promote the hobby in the best possible light and not bemoan the state of anything while among the general public at shows, shops ect.  We as an active hobbiest need to promote there is a path into the hobby for EVERY income level, in every scale from Z to G.   G and O being the best for children with S and smaller for teens and adults do to fragility.  If you own a hobby shop, stocking sets such as the Harry Potter and Polar Express are very important.  This includes the "add ons"  Both of those series are still very popular with kids and adults alike.  I see way to much negativity at shows, from dealers and hobbiests.  If you want to moan and groan, do it away from the public eye.  Nobody wants to join a hobby that breeds negativity and grumpy old men.   For dealers that carry lots of used HO.   Make up a few decent sets, a decent locomotive, a few cars, small oval of track and power pack.  Put it in a "pop can" flat and price it fairly.  Many parents have no clue what it takes to make a good complete set.  This will save time and increase sales.     Just my thoughts.    Mike

I'm 52 and my son is 12.  His interest in "our" trains comes and goes.  He had one of his friends over the other night for a spend the night.  The boy had never seen the trains and was really impressed for about 15 minutes then they both returned to the Xbox and PS4. 

One thing that has really helped him is his being able to run the trains AND doing so from the iPad (thanks MTH).  Also I have found getting engines and cars that he is interested helps a lot too.  He is interested in army items so a train with tanks and half tracks on flat cars was a big hit.

I was talking about the trains to him yesterday and said when I was his age I remember going to Toys r Us and there being an entire aisle of just trains.  He was blown away by that, he asked me if i was joking. I also told him that growing up nearly all my friends had a train layout of some sort at their house, again a similar response.

The world is vastly vastly different today than it was 40 years ago and am sure will be more so in another 40 years.

John

I agree with John that running trains from an I-Pad, remote unit or smartphone app has great potential to appeal to the young. My 7 year old grandaughter loves running LC+ locomotives using the handheld remote. Soon I will get her started using the smartphone app, and I know that will be a big hit with her.

A thought that just occurred to me is that when great strides are taken to rebuild and modernize the infrastructure in the US, including the railroads, that might generate a lot more interest in model railroading. I would have thought that we would be doing this by now, especially because this has already happened in other countries. Maybe some of our Forum members from European and other countries where major railroad renovations have occurred, can chime in on this subject. Arnold

I must be the only one who doesn't "feel the need".

I got into trains because "I liked them" nobody pushed them on me or said it might be a good hobby to get into.  Didn't have a train when I was a kid, got an HO set when I was 27 that was suppose to be for my newborn son, turned out to be a girl so....

Got 3 grandsons, they've seen the trains.  The oldest (7) I don't see him often enough but he likes to watch them.  The 3yr old wants to play with all the stuff on the layout but could care less about running trains.  The almost 2yr old doesn't have a clue about them.

Kids are going to gyrate towards what catches their eye at the moment, if it happens to be trains great, if not, oh well.

***But someone's gonna have a lot of stuff to deal with when grandpa (for some reason they call me Bubba or BawBaw ) goes bye bye!!!***

Meet my train crew. The next generation, just old fashion fun.....

I have found that these controllers from Lionel work the best....... LionChief Plus 🚂

Gary

My Daughter and Son grew up with my train layouts. For them it got to be a ho hum having trains. When my daughter was in her mid teens and kinda didn't want her friend to know her dad played with trains. Then one day I was sitting at the kitchen table looking threw a Greenberg price guide, my daughter came in with one of her friends, her friend noticed the Greenberg price guide and he said oh Lionel trains. I looked up and asked if he's familiar with Lionel trains. He said yep, he and his dad has a layout set up in their basement. He wanted to see my layout. From that day on, every time my daughter brought one of her friends over, the first thing she'd ask them, do you want to see my dad's trains.

Fast forward 20+ yrs w/my grandchildren, I decided to build a small layout and let the grandchildren help w/it. As the layout progressed, I named some locations on the layout after my grand daughter and grandson. I named the small town "MacKenzieville" after the grand daughter and the junk yard "Mason's  Junkyard" after the grandson.

Here's a pc of my grand son last week playing on the layout.

I noticed with my daughter back in the eighties that though she liked to run the trains even at five she got tired of watching it go round and round. I remembered the articles written by Frank Ellison about running a model railroad as if it were a real railroad. I got a stack of file cards and wrote a car number on each one and made a stack. Then I made a stack for each locomotive. Then I named each siding and made a stack of cards for all the sidings and spurs.  We would play make the train and pick up and drop off cars and I explained this is the purpose of real railroads.  Along the way I would sneak in a maintenance and repair session and she was expected to help. To start I taught her the names of the tools and her job was to hand me which ever tool I asked for and I would explain why I need that tool and what I was doing with it.  By the time she was 10 she could pull apart and repair most of her trains occasionally asking my advice.    I was hoping to create an engineer but she turned out a school teacher. Close enough.  She doesn't hesitate to pull apart common household items  lawnmowers, hairdryers, toasters etc. and repair them. I bet her shop is better than half of those on the forum.  I could go on about her skills but the point is too many of our young people have no mechanical or technical skills beyond scrolling a smart phone. The phone is smarter than they are. Technological societies stand atop the hammer screwdriver and pliers.  Grammar through high schools have removed shop from the curriculum, too expensive and  too dangerous. To my way of thinking toys should be about something other than the latest cartoon monster they should teach useful life skills.  Be it model trains, airplanes, doll houses.  Kids really don't know what they like it is up to the parents the adults in their life to push them in some direction if you don't someone will and you likely will not like the direction they go.  You cannot start when they are eight or ten you must start when they are very young the process must be entertaining and they will follow not noticing that you are pushing from the front.          j

Mike Caruso seems to have posted an honest answer!

Rigatoni Express Railroad posted:

Mike Caruso seems to have posted an honest answer!

Naaaaaaaaaaaah, too sentimental!

Simon

I relate to Johnacton's above comments about his daughter, which applies in certain respects to my children, now in their early 30s.

My daughter played with trains like they were dolls. Same is true with my 7 year old granddaughter. We would give the little people on the layout train rides in gondolas, and I would tell stories about the little people. My granddaughter brings her own little people, Shopkins, and we give them train rides and tell stories about them.

My son, who is very bright (much brighter than me which pleases me), would get bored running the trains as a young child. He was fascinated, however, by what goes on, mechanically and electrically, inside the trains and accessories. I remember he was particularly interested in the inside of the Lionel O22 switch tracks. He is now a mechanical engineer and Construction Project Manager for a company that build and renovates commercial buildings.

Both of my adult children now have little interest in the trains, but are amused that their Dad is so interested in them. LOL, Arnold

AGHR -- The Next Generation

The old guys like myself get to relax and shoot the breeze because the kids run the layout WAY better than we do. Yet another reason to have young people involved in the hobby.

DaveP posted:

One of the key points mentioned is the fact that parents  'don't have the time' or don't interact with their children much the way our parent did way back when. 

The point of having a child is to love them, nurture them, expose then to the world. When you leave them to the 'electronic babysitters', they lose that creativity, imagination and become introverted. 

My son is not your typical kid - loves to be outside playing basketball, biking; loves Legos and Hot Wheels. Loves to be with me and his mother. If I'm stepping out to run an errand or swing by the firehouse (I'm a volunteer firefighter) he will jump in the car with me. If I'm in the train room he'll hang with me and run the trains. If he's outside shooting baskets, I'll go outside and shoot some with him. 

He's not passionate as I am over trains  - his passion is coins, science and cars. But that's ok with me.

The takeaway is that truly spending time with children - talking with them, doing things with them and exposing them to different aspects of life, hopefully down the road, they'll want to do the same with their children.

Children are a massive investment of time and resources. My kids grew up with o scale trolleys and heavy metal. My grandson lives with me and gets steam engines and heavy metal. Nothing beats watching the trains in the dark with Black Sabbath cranking 😎😎

gmorlitz posted:

modeltrainsparts posted:

A lot of good thoughts here (and one or two absurd ones). Mostly good though. As with any aspect of our lives it is usually the result of many forces and factors. Two that haven't been mentioned here are: First the cost of trains as a percent of income as compared to say 1950. There is a significant disparity there. 

Are trains more expensive or less expensive now?

Gas was a quarter a gallon, a hundred bucks a week was a decent salary, a car cost (maybe) a couple of  thousand dollars and depending on where you lived, a house might have been 4 figures. Not counting pennies.

And going to see the Phillies was painful no matter what it cost. Still is.

Gerry 

Probably equally expensive. Gas was 25c a gallon (heck, I remember premium (ethyl!) at a cut rate gas station for 33c a gallon in the early 70s), but if you scale that with general inflation it isn't all that far from where gas prices are today in real terms. A car cost a couple of thousands of dollars, but when you are making 100 bucks a week, have bills to pay, taxes, etc, that couple of thousand dollars represented an investment that wasn't  trivial (scale it to today, and that 2000 dollar car if you factor in other cost increases, is likely close to 30k today).On the other hand a modern car in many ways will cost you less over its life, back then cars didn't last as they do today, in the time you own a modern car  you likely would have bought several cars back in the day (the average length of car ownership these days is 11 years, back in the 1950's it was likely a maybe 4-5 years, if not less than that). 

My house in the 1950's went for like 16k, today it is over 500k likely. 

If you factor in what salaries were, what the cost of living was, then Lionel trains were likely expensive, a set that cost 50 bucks back then would be somewhere around 500 today, scaled to what things cost. The famous 700e that sold for 75 bucks in the late 30's would be about 2500 in today's dollars (roughly the MSRP on some of the high end engines today).  The nature of the hobby has changed, though,back in the 1950's the big market would be kids, when these were truly trains, today the big market is adults, whether the scale /hi rail operator who buys the scale products and command control engines, or the person recreating the post war 'toy train layout' (or anything between), while parents buying for kids is an important market, the advertising Lionel does in OGRR and other magazines is not aimed at kids, it is aimed at adults, the only ads I see aimed at kids are around Christmas time where stores might advertise having starter sets.

Personally I would argue that having kids exposed to the hobby is likely as valuable as kids taking up the hobby, that even if the kid gets train set, plays with it a bit, then moves on to other toys, or they see a big display layout at a train show, that is planting seeds for the future, they don't have to build a layout, they don't have to be into switching or operations or belong to a club (though it would be nice if some did), they just need to have some inkling it is out there, so if they run across it later, they take it up. And yes, it is self serving in some ways, for manufacturers to keep making our toys, there needs to be a base that replenishes itself going down the road. 

GUITARMIKE:  All aboard! Hahahahaha!!!!!

Rusty

trainroomgary posted:

Meet my train crew. The next generation, just old fashion fun.....

I have found that these controllers from Lionel work the best....... LionChief Plus 🚂

Gary

Gary,

The above is one of the many wonderful and inspiring photos on this thread.

As to controllers, my experience has been the same.  The controllers are smaller and fit into smaller hands, and the speed control dial and other buttons are fairly easy to explain (mostly).  With our grandchildren, I just plan to enjoy them and the trains together.  They have a layout at their house, but seem to want to play with it only when I ask if they would like to run the trains together.  Unlike in my generation, an electric train is not the "it" toy for them and their friends.

That's fine.  I can just enjoy running the trains and accessories with them.  I won't try to sell them on the hobby, but,  will just spend time together with them now.

_____________________________

Rusty:

       "And as the sunset faded, I spoke to the faintest first starlight.
And I said next time, Next time, We'll get it right!"

This singer-composer fronted my favorite local group, "Bob Seger and The Last Heard", and  regularly played at my high school's weekly dances.  They would always win the annual "Battle of The Bands" - a big deal, as these so-called, "Sock Hops" were exceedingly well attended, regularly filling the school's cafeteria with excited teens. 

We don't need to.  There is no need for it on our part.  More trains are in existence than all of us hobbiests can possibly use.

The need, such as it is, is for the youth, who ought to have more skills than thumb manipulation.

There is no need for me to recruit kids or adults to get into trains. If they like them they like them if not, oh well. 

My parents got me involved trains, I just like them. My Parents got my brother and myself a train for Christmas many years ago and we both continued when we became adults.

This kind of thread pops up every so often bemoaning the fact that we need younger people in the hobby. I really don't care if they do become involved, great if they do but I'm still playing with my trains either way. 

You can't force people to like something, yes even trains.

Dave

RadioRon posted:

Dennis GS-4 N & W No. 611 posted:

DaveP,

Very well stated!

 

Dennis, I might suggest revising the title of this thread to "Why we need to...."  As it is, it kinda indicates there is no need.   Just a suggestion (thats how it occurred to me).       Happy railroading!!

Thanks Dave!  Your suggestion is well taken. The title was intended to accommodate both views - both equally valid.  

I generally don't feel the need to promote the hobby so as to preserve the hobby, or to swell the number of future hobbyists.  I do, however, enjoy introducing the hobby to young children who want to see the layout and run the trains.  Their smiles and laughter are worth the price of admission.  If they choose to enjoy the hobby for themselves at some point, then that's fine.

Similarly, I taught my children to swim at an early age.  Two loved to swim, and ultimately became lifeguards at large, public locations. One seldom swims.  I believe that they should do whatever they enjoy, not what I enjoy.  Exposing them to swimming, however gave them that opportunity.

Q. Why do we feel the need for young people to take up our hobby?

A. Why not?

I have been active since the age of 3, that's 40 years so far including working part time running the train department, at my local hobby shop.  First of, we had people under the age of 18 buying stuff, not a lot but they where buying. Parents where buying train sets, combining all of the different scales we probably sold about a few hundred a year, did all of them stay interested, probably not but now lets fast forward in their life lets say their 30's they now have kids and are looking for something to do, they pull out the train they had as a kid, maybe it was a hand me down from their dad, they set up a layout, the kids play with dad for a while but loose interest for now, however dad (or mom) is looking for something to do, they take up the hobby, many people may be lone wolf modelers, some may join a club, but look at all the people in their 30's to 40's on Facebook or on YouTube  getting into the hobby (maybe again) the hobby is not dying......... or the interest in it........  I think we are focusing to much in the wrong age group in the hobby, yes give a train to a kid, but look for that kid 20 to 30 years latter and show that person why this is the worlds greatest hobby.

As the saying goes: "Expect the unexpected."  Given the school closings in our area, and, throughout the state, I'm so glad that I introduced my sons to the hobby at an early age!  My oldest son has become an interested hobbyist, but not really an "enthusiast", with the hobby as a principal avocation.  He has built a nice layout in his basement for his family, and, particularly for his three young boys.  Now, the four of them have substantially more time to enjoy running the trains together, and playing with the layout.  I'll plan to send them a few videos of my layout, so we can talk about running the trains together.

I "lost" my youngest son to the first "Super Mario Brothers" video game, as the early Nintendo consoles became available.  That was one way he enjoyed spending some spare time after school -- often with friends.  Times change, and the ability for a young person to occupy time in an enjoyable manner is valuable IMHO, as long as it doesn't result in neglecting other things that need to be learned and accomplished.  

But, teaching my sons about the hobby, and, encouraging the grandchildren to similarly enjoy the hobby, has provided a significant benefit as the available time has become more plentiful.

i think for most of us, especially the Boomers like myself, nostalgia is the main motivator, and we are all really collectors a heart. We grew up when getting a Lionel train for Christmas was the ultimate gift and made us the envy of our friends. Very few of us had a continuing interest in these toys- most came back later. 

My son grew up with video games (80s) and now there is a brisk market for them on Ebay- he does well buying and selling. People (men mostly) in their 30's and 40s are at that point in their life when the things of their childhood are important to them. The same thing that happened to us in the 80s and 90s.

Forget the big layouts, just set up a simple oval of track, some accessories and figures around the Christmas tree every year when the kids are young and I can almost guarantee when they have kids of their own, your children will be asking for some trains for their tree.

But trains will never again be more than a niche hobby.

Well said. I would amplify on your essay by adding model building in general. My first model kit was the Hawk 1/48 SPAD which I glued together when I was about 5. I could not do the struts and just glued the top wing onto the fuselage. I have been working with my grandson who is now 10; he is fascinated with Legos. He has assembly and spatial relationships down and can build but what is lacking is the fine motor skills to straighten up a landing gear leg or assemble a craftsman structure kit. It’s just brute force with Legos. I think my model building helped me a lot in dental school and later in dental practice. The dental aptitude test used to have a chalk carving test where you had to carve a chunk of chalk with a lab knife (NOT an X-acto) to exact geometric dimensions under pressure in a room full of others. Now it’s taken on a computer. I’m not on a computer operating in the mouth drilling a .021” hole for a retainer pin in a tooth.  I just think the young people are losing a lot of skills by playing in virtual reality rather than doing what we did. They are also losing a grasp of history that we learned. Overall I don’t believe we are raising kids with the “hands” we have.
I would add that  model railroading teaches a lot about electricity.

Why Do We Feel The Need To Have Young People Take Up Our Hobby?

Because we need them to buy our trains so we can pay for our nursing home care!

Charlie

I'm the only train nut in the family. However, we also are auto racers and all of us participate, build and drive.

I agree with most of what has been said so far.

As a "young person" I can say that most of my generation is hooked on digital devices and if it can't give you the world and fit into your pocket at the same time, a lot are not interested (I will admit that I spend too much time on my computer, but its mostly for work, college, or reading stuff on trains). 

That being said..... Social media plays a huge part in the "young modeler." If you want to, download Instagram, you will see that there are a surprisingly large amount of people who have an account dedicated to trains and other traditional hobbies too! Personally, I started out sharing my obsession with trains on Instagram back in 2015 and then it took off. I communicate with people from around the globe who share the love of this hobby. Instead of going to the local shop to discuss events, ideas, etc, we do it through direct messaging, group chats, and video calls. 

Closer to home: I live in a very rural area where the outdoor activities and traditional hobbies are more alive in comparison to other places. My very close friends all have train sets and they enjoy coming over and running the trains. One is an avid ship modeler while the other two like model planes. The garden railroad club that I am apart of has about 14 people in the "under 30" crowd, and they are very enthusiastic about trains of all sizes! Also, I can name ~20 families who have trains around their Christmas tree, but that's the only time a train set is out. I personally believe that trains will always be associated with the holiday season and people will get starter sets for their kids. Most will fall through the cracks as they age and turn away from trains (and other hobbies for that matter), yet there are some anomalies like myself, who get hooked and stay hooked.

Just my two cents.

Bryce 

Encouraging news. I watched a YouTube history of Lindberg models and they said that in a survey Lindberg took in 1962, three out of five teenaged boys listed model building as a hobby. Seems as if almost all of the older men who see my little office Christmas layout remark they had trains, then they usually tell how they came home from the service or from College, and they were gone.

@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:

I agree with most of what has been said so far.

That being said..... Social media plays a huge part in the "young modeler." If you want to, download Instagram, you will see that there are a surprisingly large amount of people who have an account dedicated to trains and other traditional hobbies too! Personally, I started out sharing my obsession with trains on Instagram back in 2015 and then it took off. I communicate with people from around the globe who share the love of this hobby. Instead of going to the local shop to discuss events, ideas, etc, we do it through direct messaging, group chats, and video calls....

Bryce 

Bryce,

That's pretty interesting about Instagram.  I'll have to take a look.  Given the avid interest in social media by many in post-Baby Boom generations , that makes sense.

Sorry that I am late to the party but this is my answer to "why do we feel the need to have young people take up our hobby?" Personally, it is important to get younger people in the hobby because of a few reasons. One, the hobby, in short, is our way to experience a period of life that has been long gone and to preserve that life. With that said, it is important because if the hobby dies a major part of preserving the past will be gone. Two, it is a way to connect with different parts of life and or get away from it. For example, woodworking, electrical, modeling, engineering, and so on. With that, and so much more combined, can then be used to take a person's mind off of life and lose themselves in a world of their control. Another reason is that it gets people to get out and do things. Such as clubs, layout setups, train shows, and much more. In other words, personally, it is important for the younger generation to get into this hobby because it is a hobby that will stay with anybody for a lifetime. I know it has for me and I got into it when I was three! 

Hobby trains -- like real trains -- mimic the movement toward constructive progress through transportation for passengers and delivery of commodities and products we want and need. The history of the railroads is in large part the story of the making of America. 

As for youngsters' engagement with entertainment through digital devices today, IMHO too much of the attention invested by many youngsters in gaming and action video at websites and digital devices is based on the "dark side" of human nature; i.e.,  criminality as murder and mayhem through first-person shooter "games" that teach kids how to be assassins, warlords, and destroyers with no respect for life and rewarding conquest by all available means.  It seems to me the primary beneficiaries of promoting such destructive engagement are the Mafia, drug cartels, and ruthless paramilitary orgs.

In contrast, the train hobby offers satisfaction through craftsmanship, teaches useful life skills, and rewards safety and good order on the layout and in life.  Let's remember that CIVIL is the root of civilization.

OK, enough "sermonizing" ... I'll return to the train room for wholesome fun while young digitally-oriented hobbyists enjoy  their train-related websites.

Mike Mottler  

@Dennis GS-4 N & W No. 611 posted:

Bryce,

That's pretty interesting about Instagram.  I'll have to take a look.  Given the avid interest in social media by many in post-Baby Boom generations , that makes sense.

Dennis, 

I hope you join the model railroading community on Instagram. We are a lively bunch and there is as much posting there as there is on the OGR Forum! My Instagram account name is in my signature block if you want to check it out 

Bryce

As an eighteen-year-old it's not so simple being in the hobby, I rarely tell anyone "I'm into model trains" as it makes me look childish and immature to many people. Only a few of my closest friends know about it and still think "they're a waste of money, and I've heard "why do you buy this crap" all too often.  Getting past that they do respect the fact that I have a hobby I enjoy, just like kids of today find Video games to be a hobby they enjoy. Yes, I certainly do enjoy playing video games too but after a while, they get boring and so repetitive overwhelmingly most of my friends agree with this statement. There's just something about trains that just won't get old it always feels like a new experience, over and over again. Trains nowadays are just so expensive and hard to get into, unlike video entertainment which is only around 400$ and can be used for years with all sorts of games making them easy. I've seen the "young people like video games with violence and this, in turn, causes a correlation in their personality, etc)  so many times there's just nothing correct about it, I've played plenty of the "shooter games" but don't feel like hurting anyone, just like anyone who sees's a violent movie and doesn't feel like ultimately repeating such scenes. It's just what kids find interesting today, there are so many types of different video games you cant generalize every person who plays them. Almost every generation grows up with some sort of technology everyone has to have and there's nothing wrong with that. I've been collecting trains for over 8 years.

@justin p posted:

As an eighteen-year-old it's not so simple being in the hobby, I rarely tell anyone "I'm into model trains" as it makes me look childish and immature to many people. Only a few of my closest friends know about it and still think "they're a waste of money, and I've heard "why do you buy this crap" all too often.  Getting past that they do respect the fact that I have a hobby I enjoy, just like kids of today find Video games to be a hobby they enjoy. Yes, I certainly do enjoy playing video games too but after a while, they get boring and so repetitive overwhelmingly most of my friends agree with this statement. There's just something about trains that just won't get old it always feels like a new experience, over and over again. Trains nowadays are just so expensive and hard to get into, unlike video entertainment which is only around 400$ and can be used for years with all sorts of games making them easy. I've seen the "young people like video games with violence and this, in turn, causes a correlation in their personality, etc)  so many times there's just nothing correct about it, I've played plenty of the "shooter games" but don't feel like hurting anyone, just like anyone who sees's a violent movie and doesn't feel like ultimately repeating such scenes. It's just what kids find interesting today, there are so many types of different video games you cant generalize every person who plays them. Almost every generation grows up with some sort of technology everyone has to have and there's nothing wrong with that. I've been collecting trains for over 8 years.

Hang in there Justin - enjoy your hobby.  You will not regret being in this hobby.  While it is not as popular as in "days gone by" when there no video games, etc. or other distractions.  Time was when a kid received a train for Xmas - it was the ultimate gift.  It has always been an expensive BUT rewarding hobby .  

@justin p posted:

As an eighteen-year-old it's not so simple being in the hobby, I rarely tell anyone "I'm into model trains" as it makes me look childish and immature to many people. Only a few of my closest friends know about it and still think "they're a waste of money, and I've heard "why do you buy this crap" all too often.  Getting past that they do respect the fact that I have a hobby I enjoy, just like kids of today find Video games to be a hobby they enjoy. Yes, I certainly do enjoy playing video games too but after a while, they get boring and so repetitive overwhelmingly most of my friends agree with this statement. There's just something about trains that just won't get old it always feels like a new experience, over and over again. Trains nowadays are just so expensive and hard to get into, unlike video entertainment which is only around 400$ and can be used for years with all sorts of games making them easy. I've seen the "young people like video games with violence and this, in turn, causes a correlation in their personality, etc)  so many times there's just nothing correct about it, I've played plenty of the "shooter games" but don't feel like hurting anyone, just like anyone who sees's a violent movie and doesn't feel like ultimately repeating such scenes. It's just what kids find interesting today, there are so many types of different video games you cant generalize every person who plays them. Almost every generation grows up with some sort of technology everyone has to have and there's nothing wrong with that. I've been collecting trains for over 8 years.

Justin, I am now pushing 64, but I was like you; I didn't know any other kids who had trains in my rural community.  Some had slot cars, but most were like me, we went hiking in the woods and fields or the athletic guys played sports, which never worked for me.  I am different than most folks on the OGR Forum, in that no one gave me a train.  Dad said a train set was too expensive even as a Christmas gift, so I saved for several years to buy a low end HO set.at about age 12.  I loved my trains, and still do.  I never had anyone to share the hobby with until I found OGR in 2012.  When you get busy with college, the armed forces, girlfriends, just remember you can always come back to the hobby.  My Mum didn't throw out my trains like lots of fellows mums, but the trains were stored in an outbuilding and were destroyed by heat.

Bryce, I have an Instagram account.  I will have to find you there.

I'm 73 now and if kids like it, great if not I don't care. You can't force people to like what you do. I'm the only one in my entire family who has trains, the others just ignore them. Even when I had get togethers rarely would people want to see the Trains or see them run .Most came for the food and beer. Thats why I stopped having the get togethers with family and just invited my train friends.

I was told it was the digital age and to get with it, I think I'll stay the way I am.

Dave

Keep it fun. If you force it they won’t like it. We learned as kids and made every mistake you can make. No harm no foul, we turned into hobbyist. 

My daughter and her boyfriend came down yesterday. The BF really liked the layout. My daughter talked more about features of it than I ever thought she knew.

So you never know.  

Ask anyone under 30 or so to define the word "hobby".

I will agree with Dave that train friends are the best to invite over for a train party! We used to have big neighborhood invites to come “see the trains” (I am a Christmas carpet operator) but after a while the enthusiasm waned. We still invite non train friends but they like the quiet trains  so they can talk. Back to the original question, I do think it’s important to try to pass on the hobby - when I entered dental school a lot of my classmates were kind of ham handed as they were not modelers. Yeah eventually they learned. There are a lot of mutterings in my profession that the kids going into dentistry today do not have the hands we old timers had and I DO think the loss of modeling in general has been bad for kids not learning fine motor skills important in model building. Not to mention model railroading certainly teaches mechanical skills and basic understanding of how electricity works. They can design a crown on a computer but it’s still up to the hands and eyes to do the fine work in the mouth and certainly in the rest of the body. 

@Joe Hohmann posted:

Ask anyone under 30 or so to define the word "hobby".

This is a ridiculous comment.  People under 30 are probably more engaged in hobbies than ever.  For the record, I am 42 at the tail end of Gen X.  Must of my friends though are solid Gen X'ers with none being under 50.  However I can see what is around me and I work with a lot of millenials and people under 30.

Here are some facts:

1. Trains, especially O Gauge take up a lot of space (yes, you can have small layouts, however for most that doesn't hold interest for long)

2. Trains, especially O Gauge are expensive (yes, you can go less expensive but even setting up a decent postwar layout isn't cheap)

3. Trains are a niche for a hobby, you have to have an interest in trains in general

4. There is a larger variety hobbies today than ever before, especially around outdoor activities which I see a lot of younger people engaging in

5. Trains are mostly a solitary hobby (yes there are train clubs, however they are not convenient to or of interest to many for a variety of possible reasons, clubs have their own challenges)

During this lock down, if my 13 year old's hobby was trains, he would have been by himself isolated with just me.  However, he loves Xbox and playing with his friends, which has kept him socializing and working with others the whole time.  It takes a lot of active teamwork on these multiplayer games. Even though I myself as a gamer don't care for that style, I respect it.

For people who say the younger generation doesn't like building, using their hands, etcetera, you need to get out of your bubble.  A quick look at YouTube disproves this easily.  I see millennials building guitars from kits, restoring antique items, modding their cars, building their own Lego creations, making amazing static models in ways never seen before, converting old vans and trucks into RV's, re-purposing multitudes of things, building their own guns, building and modding RC vehicles, making furniture, designing, 3D printing and building custom projects, building and modifying mountain and street bikes, electric bikes, and so on, the list is never ending.

So go and enjoy your trains, stop worrying about how other people enjoy there lives and being distraught that young people are knocking down your door to play with your trains too.  One of my closest friends and I don't share the same hobbies, but love spending time together doing other things.  Honestly, I haven't found too many train guys I have enjoyed spending any length of time with, and that's okay to, I hold zero animosity here, just stating fact.

ONE QUICK EDIT/NOTE:

Thanks also to the power of YouTube, more people are taking on home projects than in the recent past.  I can't count the number of times that projects which would have frustrated me were greased along with helpful YouTube videos.

@TexasSP posted:

This is a ridiculous comment.  People under 30 are probably more engaged in hobbies than ever.  For the record, I am 42 at the tail end of Gen X.  Must of my friends though are solid Gen X'ers with none being under 50.  However I can see what is around me and I work with a lot of millenials and people under 30.

Here are some facts:

1. Trains, especially O Gauge take up a lot of space (yes, you can have small layouts, however for most that doesn't hold interest for long)

2. Trains, especially O Gauge are expensive (yes, you can go less expensive but even setting up a decent postwar layout isn't cheap)

3. Trains are a niche for a hobby, you have to have an interest in trains in general

4. There is a larger variety hobbies today than ever before, especially around outdoor activities which I see a lot of younger people engaging in

5. Trains are mostly a solitary hobby (yes there are train clubs, however they are not convenient to or of interest to many for a variety of possible reasons, clubs have their own challenges)

During this lock down, if my 13 year old's hobby was trains, he would have been by himself isolated with just me.  However, he loves Xbox and playing with his friends, which has kept him socializing and working with others the whole time.  It takes a lot of active teamwork on these multiplayer games. Even though I myself as a gamer don't care for that style, I respect it.

For people who say the younger generation doesn't like building, using their hands, etcetera, you need to get out of your bubble.  A quick look at YouTube disproves this easily.  I see millennials building guitars from kits, restoring antique items, modding their cars, building their own Lego creations, making amazing static models in ways never seen before, converting old vans and trucks into RV's, re-purposing multitudes of things, building their own guns, building and modding RC vehicles, making furniture, designing, 3D printing and building custom projects, building and modifying mountain and street bikes, electric bikes, and so on, the list is never ending.

So go and enjoy your trains, stop worrying about how other people enjoy there lives and being distraught that young people are knocking down your door to play with your trains too.  One of my closest friends and I don't share the same hobbies, but love spending time together doing other things.  Honestly, I haven't found too many train guys I have enjoyed spending any length of time with, and that's okay to, I hold zero animosity here, just stating fact.

ONE QUICK EDIT/NOTE:

Thanks also to the power of YouTube, more people are taking on home projects than in the recent past.  I can't count the number of times that projects which would have frustrated me were greased along with helpful YouTube videos.

TexasSP, I'm with you!!  I'm a mid-boomer, soon to be 64.  Observing my daughters and their husbands (age spread 27 to 30 among the four) and some of their friends, I am amazed at the creativity, ingenuity, attention to detail, by working with hands and brains.  I have built models for as long as I can remember, but I haven't done anything as innovative as each of the four of them.  I won't belabor the details of their interests and how two have turned their interests into income.  You said it well.

They show some interest in my interest in trains, and I show interest back in each of their endeavors.  Maybe I'll have a grandchild who will really be interested in my trains, but if not, I'm sure their parents will bring them up to be doing!

@Mark Boyce posted:

TexasSP, I'm with you!!  I'm a mid-boomer, soon to be 64.  Observing my daughters and their husbands (age spread 27 to 30 among the four) and some of their friends, I am amazed at the creativity, ingenuity, attention to detail, by working with hands and brains.  I have built models for as long as I can remember, but I haven't done anything as innovative as each of the four of them.  I won't belabor the details of their interests and how two have turned their interests into income.  You said it well.

They show some interest in my interest in trains, and I show interest back in each of their endeavors.  Maybe I'll have a grandchild who will really be interested in my trains, but if not, I'm sure their parents will bring them up to be doing!

That's awesome Mark! It's amazing seeing what the younger generation is doing, my nephew who is early 20's is all into 3D printing.  He even has a little side gig with it and owns a half dozen or so printers.

It's so easy to belittle others especially when we don't understand them.  We have enough of that in this world.  We should be slower to criticize and more patient and appreciative.  I don't have to agree with people to appreciate where they're coming from.  It does one no good to label and be dismissive.