Why lower volts to track using legacy command

Did the sounds/lights drop out in the same location on the layout?  My BB and Ten Wheeler did basically the same thing and it was due to power drop out to roller pickup spacing lining up with dead spots on a switch in one place and two spot of really dirty track in another.  This was only when they were going slower too.  At speed neither would have an issue as the matching dead spots were traveled over fast enough that the power wasn't interrupted enough.  It was really frustrating to figure out the dirty track one.  It was just two small spots that just happen to line up with the rollers.  Perhaps I should of bought a lottery card that day.

I can confirm of that because of a voltage drop on the layout that my ZWL says 18 volts  and the track reads 16 in some places.

I have ran feeders every 3 ft with drops to 12 gauge wire all away around the 40 x 40 layout. 

So when I turned up the transformer to 20 volts... I was reading 17-19...

when the voltage drops below 16 volts, all sorts of weird things happen in my TMCC engines and Legacy engines. When the voltage is above 16... all is fine.

Sinclair the one area that sounds dropped out on S-3 Milwaukee engine right where the double crossover connected to straight track heading towards the crossover. this I used denatured alcohol to clean and a green scratch pad made no difference.

The tender lights on BB have no idea if an exact spot it happened at as it always happened while I paid attention to the S-3 issue!

I'll have to lower track volts and see what readings I get around that double cross over.

JDADDY  I think I get more voltage drop due to my transformers go thru tiu then each channel goes into the older Lionel bpc then out to each isolated track so it gets around a lot prior to track connection.

I should have known track volts were low as BB  whistle smoke was very weak set at medium and same for blowdown! at 18 volts all smoke strong.

Ironically both smoke stacks worked fine plenty of smoke.

By the way all I bought Lionel sugar cookie scented smoke fluid and it smells just like fresh baked.

okay lowered the transformer to 18 volts output reads 17.95 volts at track on double crossover side reads 17.11 volts on other 4 blocks south of it the readings range from 16.36 to 16.69 volts.

once I again set volts to track at 18.04 volts the other 4 blocks again are at 17.95 volts and at this setting the amps reading is at 4 amps with both BB and S-3 with ^ lighted passenger cars all lights are on.

and so far with 30 minute run time no issues with tender lights or the sounds turning off so am guessing the 18 volts to track cured the issue I was having.

still seems odd that at 16.volts these issues pop up. I wonder if these electronics are set up to work at 18 volts or higher?

StPaul posted:

I wonder if these electronics are set up to work at 18 volts or higher?

If that were the case, none of this stuff would run in conventional mode.  Also, since Lionel says 19 VAC maximum, that would be a pretty small operating window.  Something else is at work here, my guess is it's either voltage drops under load or TMCC signal problems.

I use two MTH Z4000s which allows me to see voltage and amps. I run them through a TIU. I recently added a Lionel 360W Powermaster to one of the outputs of the TIU. When I turn on the Powermaster the voltage drops by two volts (as shown on the display of the Z4000).

I note StPaul says he has a Lionel bpc after his TIU. He might be losing a couple volts through the bpc?

Jeff

are both transformers phased correctly?

if you mean my two Z4000s, yes, they are phased correctly.

I measure 18 volts coming out of the tiu on all four outlets.

One has the powermaster connected.

When I turn on the powermaster the voltage drops to16, only on the powermaster line, the other three stay at 18.

if the question was for StPaul, I apologize for jumping in.

Jeff 

I had a problem like this and stopped it by switching to an old lionel  z with 4 variable outputs and no phasing, problems with interaction of more than ransformer.  All voltage to the 4 separate layouts  are from the same winding on the transformer and all works as should.  you need 18 volts on the track minimum for both tmcc and legacy and dcs.

Ironlake2, thank you for the post!

StPaul, how many power drops do you have and how close together are they?

BIGDODGETRAIN... power drops range from 4 foot isolated blocks to 8 foot blocks 1 power feed in center of each one. this inner loop has 5 isolated center rail blocks.

I remember a past post advising that 18 volts to track was required.

Since I adjusted the power to 18 volts no more issues with either engine. 

the 2014 big boy vl seems to not only eat up smoke fluid but also electricity as anything less on my layout both smoke units whistle smoke and blowdown are anemic.

thanks to all for replies and suggestion's

StPaul posted:

BIGDODGETRAIN... power drops range from 4 foot isolated blocks to 8 foot blocks 1 power feed in center of each one. this inner loop has 5 isolated center rail blocks.

I remember a past post advising that 18 volts to track was required.

Since I adjusted the power to 18 volts no more issues with either engine. 

the 2014 big boy vl seems to not only eat up smoke fluid but also electricity as anything less on my layout both smoke units whistle smoke and blowdown are anemic.

thanks to all for replies and suggestion's

yes the big boy drinks smoke fluid like water.

StPaul posted:

The 2014 big boy vl seems to not only eat up smoke fluid but also electricity as anything less on my layout both smoke units whistle smoke and blowdown are anemic.

I had to "pop the top" on my VL-BB to adjust the position of the thermistor in the blow-down smoke unit.  I positioned it like the whistle smoke on as the whistle smoke worked well.  After that, the blow-down works much better as well.  When I opened it up, the thermistor was right next to the smoke resistor, too close to allow for sufficient heat.

StPaul posted:

okay lowered the transformer to 18 volts output reads 17.95 volts at track on double crossover side reads 17.11 volts on other 4 blocks south of it the readings range from 16.36 to 16.69 volts.

A double crossover raises a red flag with me, nasty pieces of 3 rail work that they are.  There are so many areas within their construction where continuity and shorting issues can occur.   Usually the malady shows up on a few engines, whereas the majority traverse the crossover just fine.  Worse yet, the double slip switch...always puts on an exciting light show.

Bruce