Why No One Makes Pullman Cars

Mth has done a number of full sets in Pullman from the silohuette days through the interiors sans figures and interiors with figures. Lionel has not done full sets, as they would not be prototipical, but have done the 20th Century sets with NYC and Pullman cars mixed. I don't believe Pullman made head end or dining cars lettered with their name.

20-4033 Interiors without figures. ( easily added)

20-4081 Interiors with figures.

Pete

You could also look for an MTH Premier set. According to the MTH website, they did a couple of sets of heavyweight cars. That was a ways back, so they probably won't be easy to find. Go to the advanced search, select Pullman from the drop-down list of roadnames. 

Check out the Lionchief Page #98 in the current Lionel Signature edition.  There are

even a combine and a baggage, however, length I cannot find listed, and these

look like shorty cars to me.  Which is why I skimmed over them, but...there are seven

different cars, all lettered "Pullman".

The 18" K-Line cars are hard to find. The 15" K-Lines come up a little more often. Lionel reran the 15" cars under the K-Line by Lionel banner.

Pete

Thanks Pete, I'm looking for the 15 inch cars. Don

I think both Lionel and MTH made Pullman car sets.  I've had them both.  

I had a set of Lionel passenger cars I think were made for the Commodore Vanderbuilt back in the late 90's.  As I remember, all the cars were Pullman, the baggage car was NYC.  

Pete is aware of the set.  

scale rail - Your post above is why I bought the sets.  I model the Santa Fe, but Pullmans ran on all lines.  At the time there wasn't any Santa Fe heavyweights except for early K-Line cars with trucks that fell apart.  The Pullman branded heavyweights filled the bill.  The NYC baggage car would have modeled a transcontinental foreign head end car.  

Santa Fe like most other roads always had head end from other roads, especially on secondary trains.

BTW  That NYC set seems like it is always available and usually sells for less than other similar sets.  The cars are very nice, but they have silhouette passengers, but they are easily changed.

I'm not sure about the dates, but something else, the observation was Pullman on the side, but the drumhead was NYC. 

We have two K-Line cars in Pullman (one New Orleans!) and an early Lionel Pullman that is part of the Commodore Vanderbilt set.

Sam, I know K-line made them but I'm surprised more companies have not and are not making them. I would love to mix a few in my Milwaukee heavy weight trains. By the way in Richmond California there is a Pullman Ave. On that street is a huge cement building that once serviced Pullman cars. First shot is about 1950, second is present time. Don

I have seen Pullman Madison Cars on eBay and they are advertised as being Lionel. Pullman cars; the original hotel on the rails run on just about every overnight passenger train up to the end of the 1950's. They would go well on a layout based in that era but the color always seemed to be dark green. .

I have thought about getting some of the "Pullman" lettered cars I have seen, but

with modeling a short line, I am wondering how many shortlines in Beebe and Clegg's

"Mixed Train Daily", ever saw a Pullman car except at their Class 1 interchange...?

Lionel just made the baby madison cars in pullman name & pullman green .

they were made to go with the Lion Chief + Alantics & Pacifics .

Williams by Bachmann made some pullman passengers cars, but with silhouettes in a 4 pack.  They are very good looking and actually say "pullman" like the pictures above.  I remember my friend buying them at York from Trainworld for $99 at the time (may be 3 years ago) and he runs them with everything since they go with any railroad.

Lionel recently made NYC Pullman four car with two car addon cars like this.

I would love to mix a few in my Milwaukee heavy weight trains.

Don

All the Milwaukee Road historical reference books I have say that the Milwaukee mostly operated its own sleeper cars, and that when it did run cars owned or operated by Pullman they were painted in Milwaukee colors. I would think that any green Pullman car in a Milwaukee road sleeper train would be a loaner to cover for when a regular car was out of service. 

I have the MTH silhouettes nice cars roll, good too. I also have a K-Line passenger car compared next to it MTH makes their scale version tall and shorter than K-Line.

Interesting about the Milwaukee...I am guessing there is a book on Pullman that

lists all the roads that ran them?

According to an eBay vendor cars in set 6-81749 are 13 1/2" coupler to coupler.

Lionel 25713 Pullman 4 pack from 2012Vol1.  These are the larger heavyweight size cars, not the smaller 12 inch Baby Madisons.

Norton is correct - the only cars lettered PULLMAN would be either sleepers (many different floor/window plans - including sleeper obs.) and parlor cars. 

A little history helps understand why passenger cars were painted and lettered the way they were over the years.  I'll use the PRR as an example but it applies to other railroads as well.  Prior to 1947 the railroads owned head end, coach, and dining cars while Pullman owned and operated (Pullman crews) most sleeping and parlor cars.  Ownership was reflected by the name centered on the letter board (an exception being train names on some letter boards).  Thus in the case of the pre-war PRR’s trains letter boards had a mix of PULLMAN and PENNSYLVANIA depending on car type/ownership.  Railroads with clout could arrange with the Pullman Company to paint sleepers and parlor cars assigned to their trains in the railroad’s colors - thus Pullmans dedicated to PRR routes were generally painted Tuscan red with black roofs. 

 In 1940 the US DOJ filed an anti-trust suit against the Pullman Company seeking to split Pullman's car building subsidiary (Pullman- Standard Car Manufacturing Company) from its car operations division.  Pullman lost the case resulting in a reorganization of the company in which the Pullman Company (car operations) was sold to a consortium of 57 railroads.  In 1947 the reorganized Pullman Company sold off most of their sleeper and parlor car fleet to individual railroads.  The Pullman Company retained a small pool of heavyweight sleepers available via lease for traffic surges.  Most railroads quickly repainted the cars bought from the Pullman Company (lightweight and heavyweight) in their postwar schemes - typically with the railroad name centered on the letter board.  If the railroad owned car was crewed and operated by the Pullman Company PULLMAN was displayed in small letters near the doors.  Heavyweight cars in Pullman pool service retained PULLMAN on the letter board.  Through the 1950’s and early 60’s Pullman pool sleepers could be found with bodies painted two tone gray, Tuscan red, or Pullman green.  All Pullman Company leases and operations ceased in 1968, after which the railroads crewed the remaining sleeping cars.

Ed Rappe

Madison car is a commonly used but incorrect model train enthusiast term (usually O Gauge) for steel heavyweight passenger cars. 

It's origins date back to when Lionel first manufactured a model of a heavyweight car with the car name "Madison" on the side.

No one in the prototype world uses the term "Madison" when referring to heavyweights.

Rusty

I wonder is the Pullman Co ever named a car Madison?

All my Milwaukee books say the road did their own sleepers but what the heck. It's my railroad. I like the looks of a couple odd ball cars once in a while. Don

There is a fellow that developed a data base containing information on all Pullman cars constructed. The link is:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

A quick search of the database shows there was a car constructed named Madison. Plan 2410 (don't remember of the top of my head what floor arrangement this is), originally built 0ct 13, 1910. Originally painted PRR red, repainted to Pullman green 8/26/20, and then back to PRR red on 5/23/25. When the Pullman divestiture occurred in 1948 this car was transferred to PRR ownership but leased back to Pullman for operation. It was withdrawn from the lease on Jan 28, 1953 which I assume means it ceased revenue operation on that date.

Ken

Seems to me I read somewhere that the Milwaukee would occasionally pick up some through sleepers from the Pennsy in Chicago. There might even have been a picture. If I remember where I saw it I will post more.