On the eve of WWII, Lionel had the start of a decent scale-sized lineup with the 763 and 227-type steam switcher. The 763 reappeared (briefly) in 1950 as the fabled 773. But it took two changes in corporate ownership and 47 years for the scale B-6 to resurface as #18000. Now I know Lionel offered several 0-4-0s, which are actually larger than scale. But all of these were geared for high speeds (and many bear the scars, in the form of broken marker lights.) I think a steam switcher with worm-gear drive would have been a great addition to the Postwar lineup. So why do you suppose the "8976" scale B6 0-6-0 wasn't reissued during the postwar era?
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Lost tooling is the story I usually hear when I ask questions like this. For me, it was the Madison cars during the MPC era, but still, hectic times....
Lionel probably determined that they would make more profit making other items.
Lost tooling is the story I usually hear when I ask questions like this
I don't think anybody knows with certainty. Still, I'd like to read Dennis Waldron's opinion.
From everything I've heard, read, or saw, Lionel was meticulous about their equipment. I seriously doubt that they lost anything.
One can only speculate of course, but here may be a few reasons:
1. Cost of production. It would cost nearly as much to produce a scale switcher as a road engine. Remember the 703 Hudson that was never produced. The frame at least would need to be modified for a postwar style motor and Lionel at the time had no scale sized locomotives. Also as CW posted, Lionel may have determined the profit was not there.
2. Too old fashion. On real railroads the steam switcher was nearly extinct in 1946, the big deal was the diesel switcher.
3. Lionel was too busy with new projects that took time and money to develop, IE Turbines, Berkshires, F-3 diesels, and on.
4. Low demand. Lionel may have felt that the 1665 and 1656 0-4-0 engines filled the steam switcher category. The reissue of the smaller 203 0-6-0 would have been more likely than a scale PRR B-6, and that didn't happen either.
5. No planned scale rolling stock to match the engine. The Merchandise and single dome tank car were the only scale sized rolling stock that would look correct with the engine.
Chuck,
For someone who offered reasons through speculation you hit the nail on the head. All I can add is, "Ditto X 5".
The answer is probably in the success of the 1990 production. Note that they only tried it once, yet keep pumping out Hudsons each decade.
As I understand it, the latest B6sb is not even close to the prewar model. It is apparently K-Line's U shaped boilered model, redone with fancy electronics. Admittedly, from the running board up, the K-Line is more accurate to the prototype, but it does not have the charm . . .
My question, probably with the same answer, is how come they never reproduced the 700-series freight cars with scale trucks and couplers? They still rank right up there with the best models I own, and roll regularly on my 2- rail test loops.
Mostly opinion.
Sorry to be a latecomer to this topic. I like Chuck's #4 and #5 and I would tack on a #6 which would be too many offerings. By that I mean, besides the #701 scale version, there was a #227, #228 , #230, #231, #232 and a #233. Too many offerings could have resulted in confusion for the consumer. Personally, I am happy that Lionel made all of the semi-scale versions. They are all nice little, detailed locos.
Tom
Another possible why no 227 series locomotive was made after the war may have been the eunit. It may not have been possible to get a 259 type eunit in a 227 with out major changes to the die casting molds. The OO eunit is a superior device in my eyes, but was probably more expensive to make with its laminated pole piece. There are some 403 pieces used in post war switchers from a design that was never made. Was this to be an 0-6-0? Next to my 1946 726s, the 227 series are my best locos. My only concern is the lack of parts for the eunit.
i'm guessing it's because of ........smoke. lionel had introduced smoke and maybe it was to hard to modify the switchers for a smoke unit.
Another factor may be that the front coupler function wasn't so good. It does not automatically center as compared to a truck-mounted coupler. Also, it may have been impractical to refit the loco with an operating version of the postwar knuckle coupler on the front.
Another possible factor, with only four loco wheels maybe the electrical pickup from the running rails was problematic on some switches (or did they have a ground wire connection to the tender?).
From what I read Lionel had planned to re-entry the scale end of the hobby after WWII - and built the famous Panoramic Layout in 1945 in their NY showroom - a fantastic hi-rail layout to showcase their scale trains. For whatever reason(s) they shifted in the late 1940s to the toy end of the spectrum - my guess is that's where the larger revenue could be made, and they could sell more toy-like trains at lower prices to my people - as opposed to fewer scale trains at higher prices to a smaller market.
Until Weaver & Williams came onto the scene, Lionel was content to put various slightly modified shells on the side-plate 6-wheel motor. As management changed, the products were also cheapened. That's when I switched away from Lionel and have never gone back.
bob2 posted:The answer is probably in the success of the 1990 production. Note that they only tried it once, yet keep pumping out Hudsons each decade.
There is something to be said for this. Switchers just aren't glamorous. Even during the postwar era, the 0-4-0s were available for a few years in the late '40s, and again for a few years in the late '50s, while your "normal" steam engines were available continuously. I remember my father telling me that, as a boy, he had looked with disdain at the 0-4-0 pictured near the front of the 1958 catalog. Who would want such a little engine?
As I understand it, the latest B6sb is not even close to the prewar model. It is apparently K-Line's U shaped boilered model, redone with fancy electronics. Admittedly, from the running board up, the K-Line is more accurate to the prototype, but it does not have the charm . . .
This is true, as far as it goes. The latest model looks nothing like the prewar model--but they are not based on the same prototype, either. The prewar 0-6-0 was a B6 (or maybe a B6s?); the K-Line is a B6sb.
Here is a B6:
And here is a B6sb:
It is not hard to tell which one the Prewar version is modeled on. Certainly, the prewar model has less applied detail than the K-Line, but to say that the K-Line is accurate and the Prewar switcher is not is to compare apples to oranges. They different locomotives.
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The thing that jumps out to me about the Lionel prewar B6 is the evenly-spaced drivers. On the prototype there was a noticeable gap between the first and second driver pairs while the second and third drivers were very close together. Weaver's brass model and K-Line's diecast model got the driver spacing correct.
Anyone not happy with their Lionel B6's are always welcome to send them to me. I will gladly give them a home!
The re-release of Lionel's B6 happened in 1989. The new B6 actually graced the cover of Lionel's catalog for The New York Toy Fair.
Tom
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I'm new to this forum,. lots of talk about never any 403, 0-6-0"s ,. I believe there was,. call me crazy. Some years ago I bought a 0-6-0 and 2203B tender in rough messy shape to fix up,. very faintly was a 403 on the cab,. they had post war electric couplers and postwar trucks. I thought someone had renumbered the cab. So,. when I redid them numbered it as a 203.
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2-2-TWAINGUY: You're not the first to have said they had seen/owned a postwar B-6. I've wondered if perhaps Lionel made a few to show at Toy Fair or as salesman's samples. You might want to post this on Switcher Saturday and get a few more opinions.
Bob2: Actually, Lionel DID do a remake of the 700 series of freight cars back in the 90's. IIRC, they came out the same year as the Madison reissues. The catalog also showed a newly designed scale stock car to go with the set.
Talk about three top shelf collectables that eventually became outcasts, a victim of outsourcing, Gotta give Richard Kughn credit here, the LTI #18000 B6 switcher, the #18005 scale Hudson and the reissued "Bakelite" heavyweights will always be the three most impressive models to be hand built in America by Lionel in the modern era. A span of over 45 years.
joe