I am a big fan of the PRR 1361 and I would love to see it run once again. The thing is will it ever be able to run. I know that the museum is trying to restore it but it is not looking to great. I would like to know if they will finish this.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
rugsy3 posted:I am a big fan of the PRR 1361 and I would love to see it run once again. The thing is will it ever be able to run. I know that the museum is trying to restore it but it is not looking to great. I would like to know if they will finish this.
For what it's worth, the "museum" no longer has any control over 1361. A group of very influential and wealthy businessmen, including Mr. Bennett Levin and and retired NS CEO Mr. Wick Moorman, have taken over the responsibility of restoring and operating PRR 1361. Thus, there have been no further press releases since the original "announcement", and I wouldn't expect them to "announce" anymore information in the near future.
Hot Water posted:rugsy3 posted:I am a big fan of the PRR 1361 and I would love to see it run once again. The thing is will it ever be able to run. I know that the museum is trying to restore it but it is not looking to great. I would like to know if they will finish this.
For what it's worth, the "museum" no longer has any control over 1361. A group of very influential and wealthy businessmen, including Mr. Bennett Levin and and retired NS CEO Mr. Wick Moorman, have taken over the responsibility of restoring and operating PRR 1361. Thus, there have been no further press releases since the original "announcement", and I wouldn't expect them to "announce" anymore information in the near future.
Well, that’s the first good news I’ve heard on 1361 yet. Hopefully they can make it happen... I’m sure they can. I’ve been “out of the loop” on this for a while and hadn’t heard about it.
They may have to put a brand new boiler on her.
But the big question: Where are they going to run her? I do not see a rail version of Jurassic Park any time soon.
Dominic Mazoch posted:They may have to put a brand new boiler on her.
But the big question: Where are they going to run her? I do not see a rail version of Jurassic Park any time soon.
Have you not heard of the Reading and Blue Mountain RR?
Hot Water posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:They may have to put a brand new boiler on her.
But the big question: Where are they going to run her? I do not see a rail version of Jurassic Park any time soon.
Have you not heard of the Reading and Blue Mountain RR?
No. Have to Google it.
I would much rather watch 1361 in operation than 4014.
Good morning Brandon thanks for posting this latest Altoona Mirror newspaper article.
Heading up town to get a copy of this paper for my collection of newspaper articles on the K4 !
News of its return pops up now and then but being an elderly I don't expect to see it run in my lifetime.
Here is a photo of today's Altoona Mirror.
Front and center on the front page !!!
Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign. One of the first things I came across on this internet "thing" was the news that 1361 was going to be restored, I was thrilled (I knew nothing about she was pulled off HC in the 80s and ran briefly!). The 20 or-so intervening years certainly helped foster my cynicism of such projects...and Hotwater's admonitions!
I think it will be a lot easier to find a place ot run 1361 than 4014. It is much smaller and can run on branch lines and shortlines easier. I think there are 2 shortlines out of Holidaysburg near altoona. I know one, the Everett RR actually has a steamer so I would think they would be willing to host it. The other I am thinking of is the Bald Eagle and something I think. It is in that area.
It would be nice to see it run. I like the idea of it runnig better than a T1 too.
Allow me to clarify then, whoever got the thing tangled up for over 20 years are the ones I'm glad won't be involved. I did take the shotgun approach there, but the frustration with the project is real. As with most human endeavors, some good, qualified folks get splashed with the incompetence of others.
I'm really hoping to see 1361 alive and steaming one day in the near future. The Pennsy deserves more than one surviving operating engine.
Kelly Anderson posted:Times Square posted:Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign.
My employer was involved previously, so was Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations Corp, so I guess we're out. That begs the question of what competent contractors are left? Robert Franzen of Steam Services of America, but this may by a very large project for him.
There are some real charlatans out there who screw up project after project, yet keep getting hired. People need to check references more than they do many times.
Strasburg is where 1361 should have went in the first place. It would be due for an overhaul by now if it had.
Kelly Anderson posted:prrjim posted:I think it will be a lot easier to find a place ot run 1361 than 4014.
All the #4014 will have is the entire UP system.
Only where it will fit, which is not everywhere 3985 could fit. 3985 could actually go places 844 could not as the rigid wheelbase be 6 versus 8 wheels. The centipede tender is another issue as well.
Why is 4014 more flexible than 844? To my knowledge 4014 will have more overhang issues than 844.
Kelly Anderson posted:TexasSP posted:Kelly Anderson posted:prrjim posted:I think it will be a lot easier to find a place ot run 1361 than 4014.
All the #4014 will have is the entire UP system.
Only where it will fit, which is not everywhere 3985 could fit. 3985 could actually go places 844 could not as the rigid wheelbase be 6 versus 8 wheels. The centipede tender is another issue as well.
I understand that the centipede tender is the issue in each case. The #844 locomotive is more flexible than her tender, and #4014 will be more flexible than #844, so if her tender can make it, so can the locomotive.
Nope. For example, there is a VERY sharp curve from Albina Yard, in Portland, OR which provides access to the Steel Bridge over the Willamette River and into Portland Union Station. The FEF class northers will NOT negotiate that curve! When the UP attempted to replace the 4-8-2 passenger locomotives on the Portland bound passenger trains with the 800 class FEFs, (the early 800s didn't have the centipede tenders, either) the 22 foot ridged wheel base of the FEFs, would NOT go around that curve. Thus, the FEFs could not go to Portland on passenger trains, and 3900 class Challengers were converted to oil burning, painted two-tone gray (starting in 1946), and assigned to UP passenger trains to and from Portland Union Station.
I've around that curve on 3985, but 844 was not allowed to use that routing. I've also been places, on the UP system, that could NOT handle 844, yet 3985 was OK, and they both have the same centipede tender. The 22 foot rigid wheel base of the UP FEF class northerns, with 80 inch diameter drivers, and all roller bearing axles, are the limiting factor.
EDIT:
For those interested, here are the curve negotiation data numbers for the "big three" UP steam locomotives:
Forward direction:
800s = 14 degrees
3900s = 17 degrees
4000s = 16 degrees
Reverse direction, i.e. backing up:
ALL = 12 degrees
Larry Mullen posted:
6 - 9 months to prepare engineering drawings for a boiler that will, more or less, duplicate the original?
palallin posted:Larry Mullen posted:6 - 9 months to prepare engineering drawings for a boiler that will, more or less, duplicate the original?
Well, no the new boiler will NOT "duplicate the original", since the original was built with a safety factor of 3.5 and NOT the current FRA required safety factor of 4. Thus, thickness of the steel, staybolt size & design, and staybolt spacing must all comply with current regulations.
What about the curves from the Steel Bridge to Portland Union Station?
I think the Steel Bridge is the one of the few bridges with two different draws: Freight and Amtrak on the lower, auto and Tri-Met LRT plus Portland Streetcar on the upper.
Dominic Mazoch posted:What about the curves from the Steel Bridge to Portland Union Station?
I think the Steel Bridge is the one of the few bridges with two different draws: Freight and Amtrak on the lower, auto and Tri-Met LRT plus Portland Streetcar on the upper.
he did say "more or less"
I'd be satisfied if the boiler looks like the original, made to modern specs.
Hot Water posted:palallin posted:Larry Mullen posted:6 - 9 months to prepare engineering drawings for a boiler that will, more or less, duplicate the original?
Well, no the new boiler will NOT "duplicate the original", since the original was built with a safety factor of 3.5 and NOT the current FRA required safety factor of 4. Thus, thickness of the steel, staybolt size & design, and staybolt spacing must all comply with current regulations.
And in an era of CAD/CAM, making those changes will take 6 - 9 months??? C'mon, Jack: that's just silly. 75 years ago, we could build an aircraft carrier BY HAND in that amount of time.
palallin posted:Hot Water posted:palallin posted:Larry Mullen posted:6 - 9 months to prepare engineering drawings for a boiler that will, more or less, duplicate the original?
Well, no the new boiler will NOT "duplicate the original", since the original was built with a safety factor of 3.5 and NOT the current FRA required safety factor of 4. Thus, thickness of the steel, staybolt size & design, and staybolt spacing must all comply with current regulations.
And in an era of CAD/CAM, making those changes will take 6 - 9 months???
Including all the mathematical calculations and finite element stress analyses, that doesn't surprise me. Plus the submittal to the FRA and subsequent approval. Certainly not unreasonable.
C'mon, Jack: that's just silly. 75 years ago, we could build an aircraft carrier BY HAND in that amount of time.
Even during WWII they didn't build aircraft carriers THAT fast, and you know it!
Casey Jones2 posted:I would much rather watch 1361 in operation than 4014.
No offense.....but that is crazy talk!! 
USS San Jacinto, CVL 30:
"[L]aid down 26 Oct 1942; . . . launched 29 Sept 1943"
USS Wright, CVL 49:
"Laid down on 21 Aug 1944 . . . launched on 1 Sep 1945"
USS Block Island, CVE 21:
"Laid down 19 January 1942, launched 6 June 1942"
USS Sangamon, CVE 26:
"Laid down 13 march 1939, launched 4 November 1939"
Dates from NavSource.
How long did it take the Altoona shops to build the engine to begin with? The little Frisco turned out a whole class of 4-8-2s in that amount of time!
Jack, there is nothing reasonable about 6 - 9 months just to complete the drawings. Or for them to be approved, for that matter. That these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
palallinThat these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
What would you consider the Kardashians then?
Steamer posted:Kelly Anderson posted:Times Square posted:Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign.
My employer was involved previously, so was Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations Corp, so I guess we're out. That begs the question of what competent contractors are left? Robert Franzen of Steam Services of America, but this may by a very large project for him.
There are some real charlatans out there who screw up project after project, yet keep getting hired. People need to check references more than they do many times.
Strasburg is where 1361 should have went in the first place. It would be due for an overhaul by now if it had.
If she want to Strasburg, she’d be sitting outside with the other K4. Probably in worse condition. Just be glad (most) of her part are currently indoors. It also would have never been restored in the first place. Just look at 1223 and 7002 after the museum didn’t want to have boiler work done across the street.
what I meant was if 1361 had gone to Strasburg when this whole debacle started, the work would have been done correctly and in a timely matter, and would have been running instead of scattered in pieces, and would been due for her overhaul. Not sitting outside rotting.
NS6770Fan posted:Steamer posted:Kelly Anderson posted:Times Square posted:Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign.
My employer was involved previously, so was Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations Corp, so I guess we're out. That begs the question of what competent contractors are left? Robert Franzen of Steam Services of America, but this may by a very large project for him.
There are some real charlatans out there who screw up project after project, yet keep getting hired. People need to check references more than they do many times.
Strasburg is where 1361 should have went in the first place. It would be due for an overhaul by now if it had.
If she want to Strasburg, she’d be sitting outside with the other K4. Probably in worse condition. Just be glad (most) of her part are currently indoors. It also would have never been restored in the first place. Just look at 1223 and 7002 after the museum didn’t want to have boiler work done across the street.
He was referring to the Strasburg RR, not the RR Museum of PA across the street.
NS6770Fan posted:Steamer posted:Kelly Anderson posted:Times Square posted:Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign.
My employer was involved previously, so was Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations Corp, so I guess we're out. That begs the question of what competent contractors are left? Robert Franzen of Steam Services of America, but this may by a very large project for him.
There are some real charlatans out there who screw up project after project, yet keep getting hired. People need to check references more than they do many times.
Strasburg is where 1361 should have went in the first place. It would be due for an overhaul by now if it had.
If she want to Strasburg, she’d be sitting outside with the other K4. Probably in worse condition. Just be glad (most) of her part are currently indoors. It also would have never been restored in the first place. Just look at 1223 and 7002 after the museum didn’t want to have boiler work done across the street.
It's because those locos belonged to the museum, and there is a certain percentage of the locomotive or any other rolling stock that has to be as close to when it left service. Once those parts wore down, the museum had to recall them to maintain the state they were in before more parts were replaced.
Both are indoors and cosmetically restored anyway, so they're fine. Not every steam engine can be made to run, especially if it belongs to a museum that has a policy for originality in place.
NS6770Fan posted:Steamer posted:Kelly Anderson posted:Times Square posted:Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign.
My employer was involved previously, so was Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations Corp, so I guess we're out. That begs the question of what competent contractors are left? Robert Franzen of Steam Services of America, but this may by a very large project for him.
There are some real charlatans out there who screw up project after project, yet keep getting hired. People need to check references more than they do many times.
Strasburg is where 1361 should have went in the first place. It would be due for an overhaul by now if it had.
If she want to Strasburg, she’d be sitting outside with the other K4. Probably in worse condition. Just be glad (most) of her part are currently indoors. It also would have never been restored in the first place. Just look at 1223 and 7002 after the museum didn’t want to have boiler work done across the street.
To expand on what was already said, 1223 and 7002 (and that K4) are owned by Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, not the Strasburg Railroad. Totally different group and the engines were on lease to the Strasburg. Strasburg didn't stop operating them by choice. RR Museum of PA said don't disturb any more original fabric, so they were parked. At that point, work started on getting 475 operational, which the railroad owned.
Strasburg restoration shop is just like any other business. There is a priority list with a lot of work--both contract, and stuff needed to keep the railroad running. The sooner you want your project done, the more money you are going to pay since something else isn't getting worked on.
Berkshire President posted:palallinThat these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
What would you consider the Kardashians then?
A alien race which gives Captain Sisco on Station Deep Space Nine headachrs!
They didn't do Picard any favors either
Dominic Mazoch posted:Berkshire President posted:palallinThat these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
What would you consider the Kardashians then?
A alien race which gives Captain Sisco on Station Deep Space Nine headachrs!
You confusing the Cardassians (the alien race) with the Kardashians, a bunch of shallow, amoral people that have had a LOT of plastic surgery.
I dunno...looks like a Kardashian to me
Steamer posted:I dunno...looks like a Kardashian to me
If you wake up with either lying next to you, it was a rough night....that should probably best be forgotten!!
FORMER OGR CEO - RETIRED posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:Berkshire President posted:palallinThat these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
What would you consider the Kardashians then?
A alien race which gives Captain Sisco on Station Deep Space Nine headachrs!
You confusing the Cardassians (the alien race) with the Kardashians, a bunch of shallow, amoral people that have had a LOT of plastic surgery.
When I first heard of the human lifeforms, my first reaction was why a ST:TNG OR ST
S9 aliens were in the news.
Kelly Anderson posted:Hot Water posted:palallin posted:C'mon, Jack: that's just silly. 75 years ago, we could build an aircraft carrier BY HAND in that amount of time.
Even during WWII they didn't build aircraft carriers THAT fast, and you know it!
Well, actually, Newport News turned out Essex class carriers at the rate of one every 90 days.
Makes me wonder what has happened to this country.
Some WWII trivia: A set of nine 16" guns for an Iowa class battle ship cost more to build than an Essex class carrier, and all of her planes.
Yea, with the engineering complete, material in stock, and in a production line environment. Not a one-off.
The money spigot was flowing pretty heavy too.
GNNPNUT
What the heck does the crap on this page have to do with the 1361?
gnnpnut posted:.Yea, with the engineering complete, material in stock, and in a production line environment. Not a one-off.
The money spigot was flowing pretty heavy too.
GNNPNUT
We're talking about a set of drawings,here, GNNPNUT: drawings of a boiler that is not essentially different in dimension from the original (for which drawings exist, not to mention the actual item) even though different in material specifications. And the properties of the materials must be well understood. The process will be CAD/CAM, no doubt.
The only one of the factors you mention is the $$$, and drawing the process out over 6 - 9 months will more than likely raise the cost, I suspect.
Jim 1939 posted:What the heck does the crap on this page have to do with the 1361?
Jim 1939, I agree 100%.
I had a note typed last Sunday but deleted it just to keep peace.
Farmer_Bill posted:Jim 1939 posted:What the heck does the crap on this page have to do with the 1361?
I never like to see a thread closed when it involves steam preservation, but when it gets this much off topic, it may be time for moderator interference, but that’s just my two cents.
The lettering and logos on those freights cars is backwards.
What exactly is NS's policy on steam now with Jim Squires at the helm? Have they banned all excursions now? But allow ferry moves like with #765 and #611? If #1361 runs again, would NS allow it to use its tracks to at least go to the Nittany & Bald Eagle or Everett RR? It could pull special trips out of Bellefonte again on the Nittany. I rode behind it from York to Menges Mills, PA in August, 1988. They were doing special excursions there, and they also ran down to Hanover Junction as well. Coaches were closed end steel open window coaches borrowed from Strasburg. They had several of them, and sold them to a tourist railroad in Texas around 1990. It just seems like Moorman had big plans for steam on NS, and it only lasted so long before NS decided that it wasn't worth it anymore. Moorman left NS shortly before the #765 and TVRM excursions on NS ended, sometime in 2015 to take the top spot at Amtrak which was intended to be temporary as he really wanted to retire to spend more time with his family. But his retirement at Amtrak caused the loss of most mainline excursions because that jerk Anderson wants nothing to do with them. I would kill for a ride from Newark, NJ to Harrisburg, PA on the NS freight only lines through my area, Amtrak did such an excursion in late October, 2016 but I didn't ride it. Now the Amtrak Autumn Expresses are over due to their stupid policy. Oh well, there are still plenty of trains to ride in the northeast without mainline excursions. Tourist railroads, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT, etc.
palallin posted:USS San Jacinto, CVL 30:
"[L]aid down 26 Oct 1942; . . . launched 29 Sept 1943"
USS Wright, CVL 49:
"Laid down on 21 Aug 1944 . . . launched on 1 Sep 1945"
USS Block Island, CVE 21:
"Laid down 19 January 1942, launched 6 June 1942"
USS Sangamon, CVE 26:
"Laid down 13 march 1939, launched 4 November 1939"
Dates from NavSource.
How long did it take the Altoona shops to build the engine to begin with? The little Frisco turned out a whole class of 4-8-2s in that amount of time!
Jack, there is nothing reasonable about 6 - 9 months just to complete the drawings. Or for them to be approved, for that matter. That these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
Palallin
Those were all light carriers on cruiser hulls or escort carriers on merchant ship hulls. The record for Essex class carriers was about 10 months, most took over a year. And "launched" does not equal completed. Every one of those ships spent months more being fitted out between launching and commissioning, longer still until they were ready for action.
Here is a question that might be highly relevant to the 1361's boiler redesign: What took longer, to lay down and launch a ship or to produce all the detailed drawings and associated engineering calculations and navy bureaucratic approvals required before a ship yard could begin to build it?
As much and steam fans would like to see a K4 on the road again this isn't a national emergency. Six to nine months for a K4 boiler design that meets current engineering requirements sounds pretty good to me.
Ted Hikel posted:Palallin
Those were all light carriers on cruiser hulls or escort carriers on merchant ship hulls. And "launched" does not equal completed. Every one of those ships spent months more being fitted out between launching and commissioning, longer still until they were ready for action.
Here is a question that might be highly relevant to the 1361's boiler redesign: What took longer, to lay down and launch a ship or to produce all the detailed drawings and associated engineering calculations and navy bureaucratic approvals required before a ship yard could begin to build it?
As much and steam fans would like to see a K4 on the road again this isn't a national emergency. Six to nine months for a K4 boiler design that meets current engineering requirements sounds pretty good to me.
I said built; I didn't say commissioned.
Actually, the jeep carrier designs took a VERY short time, and they were drawn by hand, adapting existing designs.
No, this engine is not a national emergency, but there is no mystery to it, either. The boiler is a known design; the materials known quantities, and the projected outcome easily determined. They are mildly modifying the boiler for a steam engine designed 100 years ago, of which hundreds were built. No secrets, no inventions, nothing new. The whole job is adapting well understood techniques, practices, and parts. There is no legit reason whatever for the drawings to take that long. There are, no doubt, many illegit reasons.
It's no wonder this country is going down the industrial tubes if anyone believes this design project requires that much time, effort, and money.
palallin posted:The boiler is a known design; the materials known quantities, and the projected outcome easily determined. They are mildly modifying the boiler for a steam engine designed 100 years ago, of which hundreds were built. No secrets, no inventions, nothing new. The whole job is adapting well understood techniques, practices, and parts.
Known to whom? All the designers and boiler makers from 100 years ago are dead. There are no large engineering offices staffed with locomotive boiler designers who recently worked on a K2, L1 or E6. A K4 boiler that meets current FRA specs is something new and new locomotive boiler design is not a common request for many people alive and working in the 21st century.
How many man-hours do you think this project should take? Then consider that the work will be done by a few people rather than distributed over a large team of engineers and draftsman. If you had 12 people working for two weeks they will work the same number of hours as one person working alone for six months.
This country may or may not be "going down the industrial tubes" but a K4 boiler redesign project isn't likely to be a good indicator.
Strasburg Rail Road shops started the rebuild of LIRR G5 39's boiler and faced somewhat similar issues with the original PRR G5 design not meeting current FRA requirements. Several years ago when that boiler was still inside I was given a shop tour and my host (I recall it was the CMO) described how they were meeting the FRA boiler requirement by making the new crown sheet using thicker steel. I don't believe they had to increase the number and placement of the stay bolts. Unfortunately RR Museum of LI funds ran out and restoration work on 39's boiler stopped. The last I heard 39's boiler is sitting outside the Strasburg shops until sufficient funds are raised to restart the work. The chassis and tender are on RR Museum of LI's property across from the Riverhead, NY station. I believe the cost sharing and operational use agreement remains in effect. IMO a G5 4-6-0 is just about a perfect match for Strasburg's operations. Having been raised on Long Island and seeing G5's in service I hope to someday to ride behind 39 at Strasburg. Comments/corrections appreciated Kelly.
The expertise to construct a new boiler for 1361 exists today. A new boiler for 1361 just requires vision and cash. A couple of excerpts from the website for the PRR T1 project:
"The Pennsylvania Railroad T1 Steam Locomotive Trust is excited to announce the purchase order for the first three boiler courses of new build 4-4-4-4 #5550. The order for the third and final cylindrical course was placed with Continental Fabricators, Inc. of St. Louis, MO on May 5, 2018."
"The PRR T1 Trust is pleased to partner with Continental Fabricators. A strong player in Railway Preservation, Continental Fabricators is presently working on 3 other steam locomotive boiler projects. Continental Fabricators has been providing boiler repairs and new construction to steam locomotive preservation efforts since the 1980’s."
https://prrt1steamlocomotivetr...?route=boiler/boiler
Dale
Has anyone heard of any progress on 1361? The Altoona Mirror article is now 2 years old. I'm curious if anyone has any newer information. Thanks!
A couple of very wealthy individuals have stepped forward to fund the work on this locomotive. They have chosen to keep things quiet as they do their work.
I know one of the individuals, and based on what I know about him, I'm sure the 1361 will run again somewhere.
Wow! That's fantastic news Rich!
All of the b.s. going on in the world these days but this has to be one of the best times in steam restoration.
So many locos either running or on the way to be running.
Wow, that is great news. Hopefully running order will be what comes of all this. I was told that #460 The Lindbergh Special wasn't able to be put into running order because of something being cracked in the frame or elsewhere below. I was also told that in order to fix that would be extremely costly and the museum just wouldn't go that route because of the cost. 1361 hopefully gets luck on its side and will be back in working order in however long it takes to get it there.
Thanks for sharing that new Rich. For as long as this has been going on, it has been easy to lose hope in the project. No need to rehash those memories!
I've been living with my diminutive version for many years.
Is it true the LIRR will not let the 1361 run on it's rails?Also was the 1361 converted to oil?
1361 was never converted to run on oil. As to where it will be able to run, I suspect no major railroad will permit it on their rails in full operation due to insurance requirements. It is more likely to operate on shortlines or excursion roads. Put some P70's behind it and it would look great running from Strasburg to Paradise.
@joe krasko posted:Is it true the LIRR will not let the 1361 run on it's rails?
I'm not aware that the LIRR was EVER contacted about allowing the 1361 on their property, since it was/is headquartered in Pennsylvania.
Also was the 1361 converted to oil?
No. Never even considered. She fires beautifully on coal, even when the stoker screw failed, she was pretty easy to hand-fire (I can speak from experience).
Oil burning, coal burning two different locomotives, apples and oranges just about. Maybe not apples and oranges, maybe Granny Smith Apples versus Golden Delicious Apples. They're sort of the same, but different from each other.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Oil burning, coal burning two different locomotives, apples and oranges just about. Maybe not apples and oranges, maybe Granny Smith Apples versus Golden Delicious Apples. They're sort of the same, but different from each other.
Well, only the firebox, i.e. furnace system, is really different. Other than that, a steam locomotive is a steam locomotive is a steam locomotive.
@Hot Water posted:Well, only the firebox, i.e. furnace system, is really different. Other than that, a steam locomotive is a steam locomotive is a steam locomotive.
Hence why I went to apples of two different kinds. If it was diesel to steam, apples and oranges.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Hence why I went to apples of two different kinds. If it was diesel to steam, apples and oranges.
I'm beginning to think you need to do a LOT more reading about steam locomotives.
I just forked a couple of posts here into a new topic.
Can we PLEASE keep this thread on the subject of the 1361? If you want to ask about other steam locomotives, or oil vs coal firing, start a new thread!
@Hot Water posted:I'm beginning to think you need to do a LOT more reading about steam locomotives.
Well, always glad to go to school, because I have a lot to learn. Rich gave me a few lessons including clearing up someone I know ridiculous claim about steam locomotives which I declared complete BS. I do have some sense, but not enough to even figure out what is considered a good bang or a bad bang. Best if I just stand back way off the platform and let the trains roll by.
Huh, I started this thread along time ago on another account. Didnt expect it to return 2 years later.
I don’t have any clue what kind of investment it would take to get that running. I would imagine hundreds of thousands at the least. Millions probably?
Ben
This thread is coming back for a third time, and let’s try to keep it on topic this time, shall we? 
Many rumblings can be seen coming from Altoona, all beginning with a post today. I’ll include screenshots below, but a simple post with the phrasing “We woke up feeling all nostalgic today” and a photo of 1361 was made. This doesn’t seem like much until one does some investigative journalism. Along with this post, the museum posted that ARM and the HSC will be closed (tomorrow, June 24th) for private events. Again, doesn’t seem like much. I happen to follow FMW solutions on social media (the group tasked with FEC148’s comeback), and saw they had made a post as well.
FMW’s post consisted of the ARM clock and the caption “We hear it’s a good time to be in Altoona… #prr #prr1361”. Based on assumption, a large announcement is coming this week concerning the infamous K4. If FMW is indeed involved, I have full faith that we’ll be seeing some Pennsy steam in the near future.
A few other things: ARM finally made a new website that purposefully excludes all information about 1361. It also lists Wick Moorman as chairmen and Bennett Levin as secretary. Anyone who’s been keeping up with the story for awhile will know these two spearheaded the revival of East Broad Top, as well as held a presentation concerning 1361 back around 2018/19.
As of late, 1361’s boiler was taken off the flatcar it has rested on for quite some time, been rotated 180 degrees, and it seems as if work has begun on removing staybolt caps and the corresponding staybolts removed.
https://www.railroadcity.org/mission.html
https://m.facebook.com/railroadcity/
https://m.facebook.com/fmwsolutions/
You don’t need facebook to view the links, I don’t have it and they work fine for me.
This is the one thing that I would definitely hope gets back on the rails before I am way too old. Yeah, I know I am still young, but I know what some people have said on here. "There is no chance that thing is ever going to be running on the rails ever again.", or something like that. I would love seeing this being completely restored. I know that the Lindbergh Special #460 is only cosmetically restored because there is a crack in the frame that they cannot repair(without great cost). That is unfortunate for #460, but it does look nice(even though I'd love to see it run).
The real question is how long would it take to restore 1361, with it being all in pieces, and the overall cost? Whatever it is going to take, it is going to be interesting to see what the progress would be if it ever comes.
So I just realized the thread has arose again. So is this confirmed that it has been fired up or is it just a rumor
Last I heard (not that long ago), was that a newly fabricated boiler was the plan for 1361 - the only way that they can run at full boiler pressure ( and keep running for more than a few months). With the current tired and worn boiler, max speed would never be over 45 MPH. Fabricating a new boiler could have been done in the first place for what was spent, but it has been like the 'Money Pit' movie, a new adventure around every corner. The folks that are now behind the K4 new boiler plan know how to find the money and the know how. Stay tuned.
If the Class 1 railroads won't let it run, there are other places. (just had a cab ride in N&W 611 - for example)
Jim
@Burnzy posted:So I just realized the thread has arose again. So is this confirmed that it has been fired up or is it just a rumor
Locomotive is being restored, not able to be fired yet. As I said above, apparently some announcement is to come this week regarding future operation of the loco.
For the cost of a 1361 rebuild, maybe many steamers can come out of the weather into some sort of shelter.
And even rebuilt, where would uou run it?
I am a PRR fan. But in this case reason trumps over operation.
Per Ross Rowland on RYPN:
“They will make public announcements when they deem it appropriate.
FMW is an outfit headed up by PE Wolfgang Fengler. They have been hired to do the Form 4 on the 1361 and are actively pursuing that.
FMW was brought in to finish the 148 project when US Sugar and Scott Lindsay agreed to part company several years back. Scott's long time company is called Steam Operations Corp.
All is well. Ross Rowland”
The OP asked, “Will the 1361 ever see the rails again?"
The answer is yes.
Ok, for all the unwashed, what do the following TLAs (Three Letter Acronym) mean? My guesses are in parentheses.
HSC (Horse Shoe Curve)
ARM (Altoona Railroader's Museum)
FMW (Full Metal Washboard)
Chris
LVHR (a FLA (Four Letter Acronym) for Lehigh Valley High Railers)
@lehighline posted:Ok, for all the unwashed, what do the following TLAs (Three Letter Acronym) mean? My guesses are in parentheses.
HSC (Horse Shoe Curve)
ARM (Altoona Railroader's Museum)
FMW (Full Metal Washboard)
Try FMW Solutions LLC. A Google search will reveal more about them.
Chris
LVHR (a FLA (Four Letter Acronym) for Lehigh Valley High Railers)
FYI... announcement at 5 ET today per FMW facebook page.
I don't know any details (who/what/where) other than that to keep your ears open at that time.
All I can say is I very much hope so.
From the local news station...
https://www.wearecentralpa.com...uture-of-locomotive/
$2.6 million.
No one wants to see this locomotive restored more than I do, but I think the tax payers of PA still deserve some explanation about what happened with the first few million. And, what the heck have they been doing the last several years since it returned from Steamtown?
Wow, with that press release, you may just want to get out the “ On Time” cassette, put it in the old stereo cassette player and CRANK IT UP to 11 !!!!!!!!!!!
Defiantly a step in the right direction !!!!!!!
Glad to hear a positive update.
Tom
The last I heard it was in some warehouse in pieces , Levin was pondering its future.
How long has it been sitting in Altoona? I do remember reading that it was at Steamtown's shops, but that was quite a bit ago IIRC. Was only part of it in Steamtown and the rest sitting at Altoona until Steamtown sent whatever they had been working on?
Anyway, Rich says 1361 will run. I guess things will keep coming and we'll just keep waiting. Maybe Rich has the inside track?
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:…Anyway, Rich says 1361 will run. I guess things will keep coming and we'll just keep waiting. Maybe Rich has the inside track?
Yes, I do think it will run again. However, I don’t have any “inside” information about it. I just know some of the people involved…very credible people.
@Rich Melvin posted:Yes, I do think it will run again. However, I don’t have any “inside” information about it. I just know some of the people involved…very credible people.
Good to know Rich. I really hope that things progress the best way possible, no snags, and whatever would be the most probable time needed to get it running. That said, I hope it doesn't take 10-15 years or something that would be crazy to most. Granted I know that things just don't happen fast like the days of steam as there isn't a spare parts shop, great number of fabricators/suppliers just down the road, that sort of stuff. Only time will tell.
@Rusty Traque posted:
Thanks Rusty.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:How long has it been sitting in Altoona?
Since ‘13 as far as I know.
TV reporters… “most steam locomotives were retired in the 1980’s…”
Journalism is dead.
Jon 
@KOOLjock1 posted:TV reporters… “most steam locomotives were retired in the 1980’s…”
Journalism is dead.
Jon
I mean if we speak in technicality, the reporter isn’t too far off. NS steam ended in the 90’s, retiring almost all of the steam locomotives operating in mainline service here in the east (611, 1218, 4501, 630, 2716, etc). Even the faux Southern 2-10-4 (610) was gone by the early 80’s. A lot of restoration stars were being retired by the 80’s and 90’s.
Not to pile on, but if she would have worded it, "Most remaining steam locomotives were retired in the 1980's..." that would have worked better.
Tom
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
