Woodsided Reefers

Matt,

I absolutely love billboard reefers like the ones you have shown us here. They look great running behind a 736 Berkshire or a junior Hudson.

Thanks,

George

I like the Carnation.  Before these things started rolling out in lifetime plastic, I got some decals made and converted three "real wood" sided cars to Carnation.

Here's one that I built

I've generally sold off most of my billboard reefers, but I do have a few favorites I kept:

Warning: S Scale content...

And for reasons even I don't know, this one's my favorite ever since I saw one in the Walther O scale catalog back in the 60's:

Rusty

Matt, I remember Pacific Fruit Express cars being pulled by a black, except the nose was silver Daylight engine on the Southern Pacific in the early 50's. There would be fifty or sixty solid cars of them. There was an ice station in Salinas California. Don

The few I have.

Plus two different "Miller High Life and a "Borden Fine Cheese" no pics.  Also for decades have been asking MTH (Andy) for two American Icons  A&P Company and Schlitz, but  NO joy.

Ron

Definitely beautiful cars.  I always mean to research what the deal was with the law change that stopped such paint jobs.  Do any of you know of any good reference material discussing the law, when enacted, what it covers, etc.?  I tend to avoid these because it sets a max date on the train, whereas I tend to use rolling stock that spanned a long time frame. 

pennsy484 posted:

Definitely beautiful cars.  I always mean to research what the deal was with the law change that stopped such paint jobs.  Do any of you know of any good reference material discussing the law, when enacted, what it covers, etc.?  I tend to avoid these because it sets a max date on the train, whereas I tend to use rolling stock that spanned a long time frame. 

The ICC outlawed them as of January 1, 1937.  But this date was extended to January, 1938.

You will find this in detail and much more in Richard H. Hendrickson and Edward S. Kaminski's book ?Billboard Refrigerator Cars."

Ron

Limited edition by Weaver

Weaver SFRD

Atlas Grand Union weathered

Lionel with over stamp

Atlas limited

Lionel

Lionel first run REA milk car

Weaver repainted to a Santa Fe reefer leased to REA

Weaver limited edition.

John in Lansing, ILL

PRRronbh posted:

pennsy484 posted:

Definitely beautiful cars.  I always mean to research what the deal was with the law change that stopped such paint jobs.  Do any of you know of any good reference material discussing the law, when enacted, what it covers, etc.?  I tend to avoid these because it sets a max date on the train, whereas I tend to use rolling stock that spanned a long time frame. 

The ICC outlawed them as of January 1, 1937.  But this date was extended to January, 1938.

You will find this in detail and much more in Richard H. Hendrickson and Edward S. Kaminski's book ?Billboard Refrigerator Cars."

Ron

I imagine some or many here have seen this interesting discussion if not having been part thereof, found by googling it: 

http://rypn.org/forums/viewtop...t=36392&start=15

Still pretty nebulous. 

The book.

Ron

A string of woodside billboard reefers being pulled by a SP&S Z-6 Challenger.

    Bill T.

Now the milk cars are not actually "billboard cars" under the ICC ruling.

And this milk car probably just skirted the defining issue to be under the ruling.

Three designations of cars: 1/ Shipper owned(leased) ; 2/ Assigned cars; and 3/ Free runners.  I think the ICC rules about 'billboard' cars pertain to assigned cars and free runners.  John in Lansing, ILL

rattler21 posted:

Three designations of cars: 1/ Shipper owned(leased) ; 2/ Assigned cars; and 3/ Free runners.  I think the ICC rules about 'billboard' cars pertain to assigned cars and free runners.  John in Lansing, ILL

As of January, 1938 NO billboard cars were legal on any rails no mater how/whom owned them unless parked.  The ICC ruling had to deal with the markings.

Back when I was a kid in the sixties, I remember seeing Miller Beer reefers on the Southern in Alabama. It may not have been a full blown billboard reefer, but it had the Miller High Life logo and maybe some slogans on it. It was obvious that Miller Beer owned it and it advertised that product

Somebody has said that the pool of billboard reefers has barely been splashed ..wish new and different ones were better advertised.

tncentrr posted:

Back when I was a kid in the sixties, I remember seeing Miller Beer reefers on the Southern in Alabama. It may not have been a full blown billboard reefer, but it had the Miller High Life logo and maybe some slogans on it. It was obvious that Miller Beer owned it and it advertised that product

Did it for sure say beer of just Miller High Life???  The "book"  thus cover the period.

I love these cars.  I have a bunch of Atlas 40' cars, and there is few things more fun than a long string of beer cars.  I will post a pic later.

I saw one pic of cars in boxes - that feels like a real shame.  Enjoy the cars.

Mr. Muffin has a great great collection of the cars as well.

John 

I have but just a few:

Not sure if these count, but they were used to transport beer:

I really enjoyed putting the wood kits (PFE, READING, BURLINGTON) together and would like to get a couple more.  All the others are plastic (still haven't put the door hardware on the SAL car).

PRRronbh posted:

rattler21 posted:

Three designations of cars: 1/ Shipper owned(leased) ; 2/ Assigned cars; and 3/ Free runners.  I think the ICC rules about 'billboard' cars pertain to assigned cars and free runners.  John in Lansing, ILL

As of January, 1938 NO billboard cars were legal on any rails no mater how/whom owned them unless parked.  The ICC ruling had to deal with the markings.

I am curious about the actual definition used by the ICC to limit the extent of such displays and if the limitation applied to all RR cars.  I will try to research it, but in the mean time do you know where I can find more info?  Thanks.

BTW, I have 13 or 14 reefers.  Here is my scratch/bash I made a long time ago.

Edit: Another forum discussion opines that the limitation only applied to Billboard reefers because they were owned by private companies and not RRs.  There was an economic consequence that affected competition with RR owned cars it appears.  http://rypn.org/forums/viewtop...t=36392&start=15

My comments are not authoritative just my understanding from what I have read so far.

This is my favorite from K-line. Matt will understand being from the Bay Area. We had little restaurants called "Doggie Diner". Even though the reefer was for dog food, there really wasn't much difference in the taste. LOL Don

This kielbasa reefer is currently in storage but will shortly join sister "Coal Cracker Express" cars Stegmaier Beer hopper (Wilkes-Barre) , Mrs. T's Pierogies boxcar (Shenandoah), Waddell 2 bay coal hopper (Winton) and RJ Walker Plumbing tank car (Scranton). This was done by Frank's Roundhouse.  Photo from robertstrains.com. 

scale rail posted:

This is my favorite from K-line. Matt will understand being from the Bay Area. We had little restaurants called "Doggie Diner". Even though the reefer was for dog food, there really wasn't much difference in the taste. LOL Don

 I have one of those also, it’s a favorite of mine 

I have some 2 different swifts boxcars one is read a the other one is yellow.But I also have a red rose ice cream.I have a few more stored for now.Thing is when I run a mixed freight.I will have a cattle car or 2 followed by some refers.

Doug, wish I bought more. When K-line pulled the plug one of our forum sponsors was selling the K-line reefers for about $15 each. I thought they were very close in quality to Atlas. I bought a bunch of them but wish I would have gotten more Doggie Dinners. Don

With the K-line Doggie Dinner reefer:  I always get a laugh about the bottom line on the left side "Contains no horse meat".   I think it speaks to the era these cars were in service.

Railgon, Doggie Diner used the same sign. Don

Some of my favorite reefers. All were made by Weaver.

Curious: Are there any small "small split door" reefers that were/are made that are a good fit (proportionately) with 6464-type boxcars?

Andre

jim sutter posted:

Some of my favorite reefers. All were made by Weaver.

Love the Bunny Bread one never knew they made it 

Here’s mine it’s a WIP I got it with a bunch of All Nations Boxcars can some tell me if it’s a All Nations or Athearn or what some day soon I’m going to restore it with newer Armour Decals 

Aah,DuBois Budweiser...not to be confused with The Budweiser (they sued to keep their name and won).

If there was ever a beer that gave out headaches after drinking, it was DuBois Budweiser.

Nice cars,Jimmy!

Norm

Here’s a wood side reefer with a Thero King unit very interesting 

Coal Cracker posted:

This kielbasa reefer is currently in storage but will shortly join sister "Coal Cracker Express" cars Stegmaier Beer hopper (Wilkes-Barre) , Mrs. T's Pierogies boxcar (Shenandoah), Waddell 2 bay coal hopper (Winton) and RJ Walker Plumbing tank car (Scranton). This was done by Frank's Roundhouse.  Photo from robertstrains.com. 

DOBRE!!!!

Yak se mash?

Norm posted:

Aah,DuBois Budweiser...not to be confused with The Budweiser (they sued to keep their name and won).

Nice cars,Jimmy!

Norm

Norm,

At one time there was a Holiday Inn( or Holiday Motel) in the Harrisburg area which was not affiliated with the national chain.  Green neon sign large enough to be seen from the Turnpike.  They had to defend themselves in court and also won.

John

scale rail posted:

This is my favorite from K-line. Matt will understand being from the Bay Area. We had little restaurants called "Doggie Diner". Even though the reefer was for dog food, there really wasn't much difference in the taste. LOL Don

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvHk4wLtQnE 

rattler21 posted:

Norm posted:

Aah,DuBois Budweiser...not to be confused with The Budweiser (they sued to keep their name and won).

Nice cars,Jimmy!

Norm

Norm,

At one time there was a Holiday Inn( or Holiday Motel) in the Harrisburg area which was not affiliated with the national chain.  Green neon sign large enough to be seen from the Turnpike.  They had to defend themselves in court and also won.

John

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAnojTvyc0g 

 

pennsynut posted:

PRRronbh posted:

rattler21 posted:

Three designations of cars: 1/ Shipper owned(leased) ; 2/ Assigned cars; and 3/ Free runners.  I think the ICC rules about 'billboard' cars pertain to assigned cars and free runners.  John in Lansing, ILL

As of January, 1938 NO billboard cars were legal on any rails no mater how/whom owned them unless parked.  The ICC ruling had to deal with the markings.

I am curious about the actual definition used by the ICC to limit the extent of such displays and if the limitation applied to all RR cars.  I will try to research it, but in the mean time do you know where I can find more info?  Thanks.

Edit: Another forum discussion opines that the limitation only applied to Billboard reefers because they were owned by private companies and not RRs.  There was an economic consequence that affected competition with RR owned cars it appears.  http://rypn.org/forums/viewtop...t=36392&start=15

 

The Billboard Reefers became a complicated convoluted issue back in the day.  The ICC did not get involved by happenstance.   The ICC was pressed into "service" by the "RAILROADS" so they could reclaim the refrigerator car business.  Decades before this ICC involvement the Railroads gave away the business not wanting any more involvement.  But now they wanted it back $$$$$ and press the ICC into their corner.

So the ICC conjured a way to intercede.  They came up with their July 1934 ruling.  Taking effect August 1, 1934 prohibiting NO NEW Billboard reefers.  And effective January 1, 1937 , no refrigerator cars bearing advertisements of any shipper, consignee, or product, will be accepted in interchange or handled locally on any railroad.  This was then extended to January 1938 implementation.  

This got the RAILROADS what they now wanted, control $$$.

The BOOK also has chapters on "Postwar Renaissance"

Ron 

Definitely some of the more colorful items on many a layout and some of my favorite rolling stock

www.toytrains1.com/atlas_reefers.htm 

Be prepared to spend some time.  John in Lansing, ILL

Did the law in 1936 or 1937 ban all billboard reefers, or just the ones whose billboards were not related to the actual owner of the car? For example, the famous “Old Dutch Clenser” billboard was on a car owned by Cudahy, a meat company (and why would clenser be advertised on a reefer, anyway)? The Swift cars, however were owned by and carried Swift meats, a commodity that definitely needs refrigeration, so were these banned? Seems like I recall some more modern steel Swift reefers having large logos much like the wooden versions. Were these not considered “billboards”? And what about even more modern cars than that, the Tropicana cars immediately come to mind. They certainly seem to be like billboards to me, or was the law rescinded at some point, allowing these cars to be legal?

Bill in FtL

scale rail posted:

Doug, wish I bought more. When K-line pulled the plug one of our forum sponsors was selling the K-line reefers for about $15 each. I thought they were very close in quality to Atlas. I bought a bunch of them but wish I would have gotten more Doggie Dinners. Don

Don, yes I think K-line did a nice job with their reefers.  I only have a few though.

During its waning days K-Line offered a reefer whose roof could be lifted to show the load of swinging beef.  Quite rare and very collectable.  John in Lansing, ILL

I supported the Arizona club that sold the Apache Beer car--one of two billboard reefers that I own.

I wonder if billboard cars of many types, could be brought back again to make extra money for railroads or car owners.   Imagine sitting at a crossing watching a parade of advertizements on a hopper train, intead of a steady stream of more or less the same blank car.  Seems like a captured audience of viewers to me.

Railgon posted:

I wonder if billboard cars of many types, could be brought back again to make extra money for railroads or car owners.   Imagine sitting at a crossing watching a parade of advertizements on a hopper train, intead of a steady stream of more or less the same blank car.  Seems like a captured audience of viewers to me.

Would violate the ICC Ruling of July, 1934.

Bill Nielsen posted:

Did the law in 1936 or 1937 ban all billboard reefers, or just the ones whose billboards were not related to the actual owner of the car? For example, the famous “Old Dutch Clenser” billboard was on a car owned by Cudahy, a meat company (and why would clenser be advertised on a reefer, anyway)? The Swift cars, however were owned by and carried Swift meats, a commodity that definitely needs refrigeration, so were these banned? Seems like I recall some more modern steel Swift reefers having large logos much like the wooden versions. Were these not considered “billboards”? And what about even more modern cars than that, the Tropicana cars immediately come to mind. They certainly seem to be like billboards to me, or was the law rescinded at some point, allowing these cars to be legal?

Bill in FtL

All the Billboard Reefers were privately owned.  And in 1934 the ICC ruled that all shall go as of January 1,1937 but then extended to January,1938.

I would really like to see the return of "Billboard Refers" etc. -  more interesting to collect and/or watch prototypes of double stacks go by.  Nothing like private interests  & gov regulators collunding.