Hello all,
I pre-ordered the WTIU that was supposed to come out in October. Does anyone have any info as to when it will be shipping?
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Last I heard was April 2022.
They keep pushing it out. They already have the $, so I guess no motivation to move.
Well, a lot has happened in the last few months! 
@AllanK posted:They keep pushing it out. They already have the $, so I guess no motivation to move.
There's a massive supply chain issue with electronic components right now, in addition to shipping issues. The delay is very much out of their hands at this point.
I guess that is true. I'm waiting patiently.
One Hobby Shop has one on the bay for $900+.
@Rigatoni Express Railroad posted:One Hobby Shop has one on the bay for $900+.
Since it hasn't shipped from the factory, that's a neat trick!
Sure is...but what can you do? 6 months to a year's interest on other people's $$ good little gig
@AllanK posted:Sure is...but what can you do? 6 months to a year's interest on other people's $$ good little gig
That little bit of interest is lost to rising inflation. I have one on preorder and my dealer didn't require a deposit.
Mine is pre-ordered and fully paid for
Does anyone know if this is still expected for April? It doesn't look like MTH is keeping their shipping schedule up to date anymore cause it has a 2021 date
Hello everyone. Does anyone have an update on the WTIU shipping date yet?
PRK
Thanks Mike - most helpful. I did not have a chance to listen to this last night. The most striking thing to me is that these things have not even been built yet, despite all of the previous rumors to the contrary, because of unavailable components. I am more than a bit cynical but I suspect that the end of the year availability estimate will also get moved back.
Best to all
PRK
If we're talking about the new wi-fi 50-1039, I'm hearing January. I have a question. MTH states you can run Lionel TMCC with this unit. Does anyone know if you would need a TMCC or Legacy base, make this work?
@MACADO 1 posted:If we're talking about the new wi-fi 50-1039, I'm hearing January. I have a question. MTH states you can run Lionel TMCC with this unit. Does anyone know if you would need a TMCC or Legacy base, make this work?
Of course you must have a TMCC or Legacy base. No MTH product ever made or likely ever will be made transmits the 455KHz radio signal that is Lionel TMCC/Legacy to the engine. At most the system knows and can send the serial data commands to a Lionel base that then transmits the actual TMCC/Legacy command.
FYI this was also covered over here https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...2#149943328429214392
This post by @MartyE
Also, to get full legacy- must be a Lionel Legacy or new CAB3 base, and the all important Lionel LCS module SER2 (and also a PDI cable and possibly power system depending on base), and the MTH serial data cable 50-1032, along with also requiring the premium DCS app license.
Both sides are a little guilty on the "what extra bits are required". Again, for whatever reason, Lionel made it such that you need a SER2 to perform some level of translation of the commands to actually get full legacy functionality for the original 990 Legacy base. Then on CAB3 base, you need a SER2 because there is no native serial port. The main difference being the 990 Legacy base install and SER2 needs the PDI starter Y cable that includes the PDI power adapter because the Legacy base serial port does not supply any power for the LCS modules. The Base3 install, the base has powered PDI ports built in to power LCS modules, but no serial port, so you need a normal PDI cable and LCS SER2 to give the Base3 a serial port.
On the MTH side, while in theory serial is serial- the 50-1032 cable has some buffering and level translation to ensure compatibility with Lionel and other products. And then the need for the Premium DCS app license "upgrade" that unlocks the greyed out features in the app.
Speaking as an "old timer" but a recent re-entry back, from what I have been reading, it sounds like I should 1) treasure my two working, older TIU's with working handheld remotes, 2) forget about the wifi TIU and what it does (it does not do much if it is impossible/expensive to get) 3) guard my PS2 3V trains with my life 4) anticipate ultimate failure of my PS2 5V boards/trains 5) forget about buying new PS3 items unless I am desperate (seems to be limited selection, and high prices - though some places have diesels for the $375 range) 6) put stuff on the tracks, and enjoy the trains and running them while I still can. At 75 years old, how much longer to do I have?!?
Funny. Around 2000, the older Lionel trains seemed antiquated when the "new" MTH stuff came out. I used to tell people it was as close to "running a real train" as they could get. Oh, a few hiccups with PS1 chips scrambling, but PS2 seemed much more reliable. Barry and others had figured out the best ways to implement the TIU-AIU systems to everyone's delight, and things seemed flourishing.
Now, here we are, over 20 some years later, and the PS2/older TIU stuff is "antiquated" and the younger guys (they are the only ones I am familiar with using it) are running very expensive engines with their Iphone/droid sytems like it had been around forever. Locals here have all new PS3, or PS2 to 3 that they have paid to upgrade (that works if the 2 is Premier) and think nothing of paying $1500 to 2K for newer MTH steam (I guess it is new)
Only the "poor" people are running conventional or PS1 now. Mike did make some really nice engines when he first broke from Lionel. Heavy metal, good detail, QSI sound, no batts, a good basic runner were the hallmarks. Next came the PS1 items, and sound was even better! We all could not believe how heads-and-shoulders above the older Lionel, early Mike items the PS1 was. Even starter sets, with cheap F3 diesels were great deals. A set with a PS1 engine with great sounds, speach, (some with smoke) remote coupler, 3 cars, an oval of track, a 100 or 75 watt power brick...all for a very reasonable price. Some for $200 to $300...wow. Figure $150 for the engine, $100 for the cars, $100 for the brick all as a unit. Seemed a deal.
Then.....PS2, TIU's and nearly full control of everything a few years later!! Could it get any better than that? At the time, Lionel was probably as good, maybe better...but I was sold on this upstart from Maryland (my home state) who was taking on a giant like Lionel, and creating what I thought was the next "sliced bread" in the train hobby. I often wonder how many guys my age, hauled older trains out of the closet and attic at that time, and dove back into the hobby just because of PS1 and PS2 and all of the new features they provided. Say what you want about Mike, he spurred the hobby and rejuvenated the interest. I know of older guys like myself, and newer 20 somethings, who bought those starter sets, moved on the PS1 and then PS2 just because of all the newer technology.
A guy named Rich Foster, from MTH came to the local hobby shop run by Walt Dennison, and showed Walt and I the in's and out's of that TIU stuff, and then we showed other locals. Soon, judges, teachers, shop keepers were buying MTH items, taking them home and setting up HUGE boards! Plenty of stock and money allowed that to happen...plus the nostalgic appeal of running trains - again.
Not since boyhood had these guys experienced that feeling - and it was contagious! Older guys snuck trains in the back door so as to not stir the wife's wrath! Other guys had wives who came in with them and encouraged the train purchases. The same thing happens today, probably not on the same scale, the interest in trains has waned some since then.
What will history tell us about that era? Was it the beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning of a newer era? I probably won't be around long enough to know, but 15 or 20 years from now, the younger guys on this forum will know.
I do know that in my area, this Christmas, the locals (within 30 miles) had the chance to visit a huge MTH layout, a huge municipal fire dept layout displaying stuff for over 50 years - also running mostly MTH trains, another local municipal layout put up by 4 private individuals running older Lionel hardware, and two local train clubs featuring all gauges and brands of trains. One family even hauled a huge trailer around, with sides that opened to display 4 or 5 running trains with scenery to match - a very nice display. That is a huge first for this area. And I witnessed huge crowds every time I visited. Power came from new Z4000's, older ZW's, newer Lionel bricks....no matter, they all got the trains to move!
Maybe next year, I will put up my next layout. Here is a shot of the last one I did in 2012.
I have rambled on enough. Have a great New Year, keep the rails polished! Greg
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@cngw posted:Speaking as an "old timer" but a recent re-entry back, from what I have been reading, it sounds like I should 1) treasure my two working, older TIU's with working handheld remotes, 2) forget about the wifi TIU and what it does (it does not do much if it is impossible/expensive to get) 3) guard my PS2 3V trains with my life 4) anticipate ultimate failure of my PS2 5V boards/trains 5) forget about buying new PS3 items unless I am desperate (seems to be limited selection, and high prices - though some places have diesels for the $375 range) 6) put stuff on the tracks, and enjoy the trains and running them while I still can. At 75 years old, how much longer to do I have?!?
That's my plan.
I have enough stuff that I'd never run out, even if I never tried to repair broken pieces.
GRJ......sounds like an old guy like me, better keep you on my good side! 
Mines been "Pre-Ordered" Since 2021 From Muffins Trains. Good thing I'm not holding my Breath lol.
Any rumblings of an update on these? If the early Q2 availability is holding true I imagine these would be in production and nearing shipping.
Last info I've heard is April of this year. I won't be surprised if that dragged into May or June.
@H1000 posted:Last info I've heard is April of this year. I won't be surprised if that dragged into May or June.
Or August...
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Or August...
Not holding my breath on this one.
Does anyone have any updates on the WTIU? I heard they were shipping around April, but haven't heard any updates since December. I'm really hoping to get it in before York.
Still April from what my dealer told me 2 weeks ago.
FWIW, Trainworld posted availability as Sunday 30th April 2023
Waiting...waiting...waiting....now I'm between the illustrious rock and hard spot and considering buying an old used TIU/Remote just in case. I've got an old rev H1 (antique) that is hanging by a thread and goes bonkers from time to time and I've got a WTIU on pre-order which is sure to be loaded with software bugs and new hardware issues!!! What to do, what to do. Rest assured, the minute I dole out a premium for an old used TIU, the new one will ship! I should have stocked-up on TIU's and remotes over the years like @gunrunnerjohn 
Maybe this is a signal to just go back to conventional operation....wait...I think that is yet another challenge!
Kevin Mac
@Kevin MacDowell posted:I should have stocked-up on TIU's and remotes over the years like @gunrunnerjohn
When People were selling the whole set for less than $200, I couldn't resist the urge to grab a couple. I'm looking pretty astute now. 
As far as chip shortages, I’m not buying it. I worked for Applied Materials for 10 years as a customer engineer at Intel fabs in Ireland, Israel and Rio Rancho NM. To get back to production on processor cores, it would be less than a month or two, logic and microprocessors would be even shorter. There is a greed element in the equation, unfortunately. The middle men are milking the past for all it’s worth.
I dont believe it's a chip shortage issue, I do weekend work for a PCB FAB in the US and he's returned to normal manufacturing as of last October.
If I had to guess it's probably a software talent issue and possibly a greed element more in the sense of trying to make as many as possible all at once to keep the manufacturing costs down.
Just a guess though but I haven't bought the chip excuse since last fall.
@Kevin MacDowell posted:Waiting...waiting...waiting....now I'm between the illustrious rock and hard spot and considering buying an old used TIU/Remote just in case. I've got an old rev H1 (antique) that is hanging by a thread and goes bonkers from time to time and I've got a WTIU on pre-order which is sure to be loaded with software bugs and new hardware issues!!! What to do, what to do. Rest assured, the minute I dole out a premium for an old used TIU, the new one will ship! I should have stocked-up on TIU's and remotes over the years like @gunrunnerjohn
Maybe this is a signal to just go back to conventional operation....wait...I think that is yet another challenge!
Kevin Mac
I know how you feel. I just got back into the hobby about a year ago and ignorantly ordered the new WTIU not knowing how long it was already been back ordered. I decided that was a better idea than buying a used set or new, old stock. In the 9 or so months since I made that decision, it seems like the prices on eBay have almost doubled, as I came to realization I needed a backup plan. Currently I just run really nice Proto 2 & 3 engines in conventional. 🙁
I am pretty sure Gunrunner John picked up one of my DCS remotes. That almost came back to bite me when one of my WIUs started to act up. Oh well. Everything works now as a result of picking up a new WIU.
John
I have a WIU, but it's just for guests, I have no interest in running my trains from my phone. 
Forever hopeful that the WTIU would be available at the end of this month (April) I just checked. The delivery estimate is now August/September 2023. Hope that my aging TIU's last that long, and beyond, since I have little hope that even this date will materialize.
PRKMD
I ended up biting the bullet and cancelled my preorder to go with a used TIU and remote. I'm afraid my kid will loose all interest if I keep delaying finishing our layout while waiting for this.
@BroadBrush posted:I ended up biting the bullet and cancelled my preorder to go with a used TIU and remote. I'm afraid my kid will loose all interest if I keep delaying finishing out layout while waiting for this.
I was gonna cancel my pre order also. My new TIU, WIU and remote works great. I doubt we will even see it this year. Down the road when they are sold out I’ll probably sell it without gouging the price like everyone seems required to do
Since the DCS remote doesn't work with the WTIU, my interest in it disappears along with that lack of capability. I have several spare TIU's, hopefully a lifetime supply.
Since MTH says that the WTIU is supposed to work with a tethered handheld (or did they back away from that?), I have looked into 25 foot phone cords. Not a perfect solution by any means but it may allow some mobility.
@PRKTRAINS posted:Since MTH says that the WTIU is supposed to work with a tethered handheld (or did they back away from that?), I have looked into 25 foot phone cords. Not a perfect solution by any means but it may allow some mobility.
Do what the DCC guys do. Have phone jacks placed in several spots on your layout table so you can plug in.
That thought had occurred to me too. You can get wall jacks and long (50-100 feet) straight phone cords that will attach a jack to the WTIU, If they ever come out I plan on having three WTU's. Assuming that they can still be operated in "super TIU mode, that would mean a phone jack on each one to which a phone extension cord could be attached and control all of the engines. In theory...
A tethered remote and of course restricted to a single remote. Also, I have no idea if the tethered remote would disable the other WiFi connections, I guess we'll know when the WTIU is released.
Finally, my TIU is in the center of the layout on a panel, so connecting a cord to it and moving around would be a giant PITA, even if I were inclined to accept those limitations! IMO, this is a giant step backwards, notice that Lionel thought about this with their BASE3 and it's compatible with all the Legacy remotes!
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@superwarp1 posted:Do what the DCC guys do. Have phone jacks placed in several spots on your layout table so you can plug in.
How about I just don't buy this flawed product?
@PRKTRAINS posted:That thought had occurred to me too. You can get wall jacks and long (50-100 feet) straight phone cords that will attach a jack to the WTIU, If they ever come out I plan on having three WTU's. Assuming that they can still be operated in "super TIU mode, that would mean a phone jack on each one to which a phone extension cord could be attached and control all of the engines. In theory...
Actually, a tethered cord to one WTIU would only operate the engines that WTIU has, just like what happens today with with a tethered remote to the TIU. I can't imagine that the multiple WTIU's are going to get the data from that tethered remote. I'd be amazed if they implement that since they didn't do the much simpler RF link for the remote!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:How about I just don't buy this flawed product?
Sounds reasonable to me, John!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:How about I just don't buy this flawed product?
I agree, I don’t understand why a company would shoot themselves in the foot. Lately it seems to be a common issue……
Lionel did better, but you can’t buy the cab2 remote…. But the cab 1l is still for sale? Also the cab 3 is looking like delays as much as MTH.
A lot of us want an actual remote, not a touchscreen.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:How about I just don't buy this flawed product?
That's another option!
I agree and certainly sympathize, though l am probably going to go ahead with my order since I will need something to replace my current unrepairable TIU's when they go. I am also holding out hope that some really smart electronics guy will figure out a plugin receiver for the WTIU phone jack that will work with the existing handheld remote. Probably not going to happen...
Ordered a new WTIU version for the new layout. The app (warning) indicates it is only compatible with older Android phones?
I planned on trying on using my Samsung 10e and leaving the remote for the garage layout. Glad I saved my old LG. I bet there will be new software soon.
@PRKTRAINS posted:I am also holding out hope that some really smart electronics guy will figure out a plugin receiver for the WTIU phone jack that will work with the existing handheld remote.
Of course, we all hope @gunrunnerjohn will start working on this! 
I'm still waiting for a WIU to pair with my DCS. Supposedly those are going to be made again soon. I feel like an aging spinster waiting for it. In the meantime, my remote works fine and I have no plans to stop using it. Younger folks will probably start making fun of me because remote controls seem to be going the way of land lines. My question to them is, how do you put on a You Tube channel or watch a ball game on your phone and still run your trains if your phone is needed for controlling them? And please don't tell me switching between the two is doable. I have a hard enough time sipping on a drink and using my remote control.
Mike
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Since the DCS remote doesn't work with the WTIU, my interest in it disappears along with that lack of capability. I have several spare TIU's, hopefully a lifetime supply.
Sounds like a great item for the will. 
John
@Craftech posted:Sounds like a great item for the will.
John
I'll leave the TIU's and remotes with prices expected for my kids.
Its a generational thing I think. At the moment I can control a house full of TVs, HVAC, water heater temperature, alarm system, cameras, garage door, 2 cars, and my pool on my phone. The only thing they won't let me do is close the automatic pool cover because of people closing them without making sure everyone was out. I also now have a second junk drawer full of remotes.
That being said my favorite way to run is with one hand on a ZW handle and the other holding a glass of brown liquid with a cigar perched atop.
"But the cab 1l is still for sale?"
Yes, the one I had on back order came in a couple of months ago.
@Landsteiner posted:"But the cab 1l is still for sale?"
Yes, the one I had on back order came in a couple of months ago.
It was a statement, sorry. I was trying to understand why keep making the 1L and not the cab 2. Regress in tech
@Pu239 posted:It was a statement, sorry. I was trying to understand why keep making the 1L and not the cab 2. Regress in tech
Pretty sure the CAB2 parts problem was the obsolete LCD displays, those aren't available anymore.
According to the Train World / MTH live webcast this evening, the WTIU is going into production in June and expected to ship to dealers prior to the end of the year. Fingers crossed…
@Scott In Texas posted:According to the Train World / MTH live webcast this evening, the WTIU is going into production in June and expected to ship to dealers prior to the end of the year. Fingers crossed…
Sounds like it's a race between the MTH WTIU and the Lionel BASE3. 
@Scott In Texas posted:According to the Train World / MTH live webcast this evening, the WTIU is going into production in June and expected to ship to dealers prior to the end of the year. Fingers crossed…
At this point, I'll believe it when I see it. Same goes for Lionel Base 3.
Into production??? And all this time I thought they were in some shipping container someplace between China and Long Beach (yeah, right). Instead they haven’t even been fabricated.
Oh well. Guess I will stop believing in the tooth fairy too. Sounds like next spring, if ever.
PRK
Picking up a couple spare TIU's and remotes a couple years ago is looking like a better and better idea all the time!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Sounds like it's a race between the MTH WTIU and the Lionel BASE3.
I feel fortunate that I'm not in need of either. I do feel badly for those that entered the hobby during the pandemic and have been craving a full command system.
@superwarp1 posted:Do what the DCC guys do. Have phone jacks placed in several spots on your layout table so you can plug in.
The newer DCC systems have wireless remotes.
@MichRR714 posted:I feel fortunate that I'm not in need of either. I do feel badly for those that entered the hobby during the pandemic and have been craving a full command system.
That would be me. The decision to come over from HO in December 2019 has just been a terrible one. It just makes no sense because by and large there has been little disruption in getting NCE or Digitrax equipment. Small delays here and there, but by and large you could get almost anything for HO in the way of command. That is why I maintain there is more here than just "parts shortages".
"That is why I maintain there is more here than just "parts shortages"."
You're in all likelihood correct. Lionel is designing a completely new system, for one thing. MTH has downsized significantly and is redesigning their system. DCC is basically the same system, unchanged for decades.
The Base 3 was announced in Jan 2022 and planned for late 2022, so it's "only" four months late. The WTIU was announced in Jan 2020 and is about 1.5-2.0 years delayed. 1.5 years into that initial period, Mike Wolf considered closing MTH entirely. Stuff happens.
My guess is no more than 2-3 people are working on the Base 3 and 1-2 on the WTIU. I suspect NCE and Digitrax each have significantly more staff than that, given the size of the markets in HO and N, not even considering S, G and Z, which are much smaller but also tend to use DCC. NCE and Digitrax also do nothing but DCC, whereas Lionel is more like Marklin or LGB, with a full line of products.
Question, who's going to support this when it's released? Who do I call if I have a issue, what if it's defective from day one, six months, a year? Where can I get it fixed if needed? (Yes, yes I know we all have the forum but)
Asking for a friend.
@superwarp1 posted:Question, who's going to support this when it's released? Who do I call if I have a issue, what if it's defective from day one, six months, a year? Where can I get it fixed if needed? (Yes, yes I know we all have the forum but)
Asking for a friend.
Given the recent issues with the MTH warranty on locomotives, that's probably a good question. Since they have no factory repair depot, and it's very unlikely they'll release any technical information on the box, it's hard to say how it'll get repaired.
Isn't time for the current iteration of MTH to publish on their website or this Forum some type of honest statement about why this is taking so much longer than originally advertised? Certainly COVID caused an initial disruption in the supply of the necessary parts, and also overseas production, but other industries that rely on chips and semiconductors have recovered as the pandemic has waned. Why is it taking MTH so long? Are there design flaws that are still being corrected? A little forthrightness would be reassuring to those of us who have been loyal MTH customers for decades, not to mention the 37 dealers listed on the MTH website (as of this morning) who have the product on order.
PRK
@PRKTRAINS posted:Isn't time for the current iteration of MTH to publish on their website or this Forum some type of honest statement about why this is taking so much longer than originally advertised?
Did you watch the Trainworld TV Youtube event last night? They did touch on that and gave an update on the status.
@H1000 posted:Did you watch the Trainworld TV Youtube event last night? They did touch on that and gave an update on the status.
IMO, that's not an answer. You should have to wade through an hour and a half of video to find out information that one or two sentences would convey! Not everyone wants to sit through a lengthy video for one simple piece of information.
@PRKTRAINS posted:Isn't time for the current iteration of MTH to publish on their website or this Forum some type of honest statement about why this is taking so much longer than originally advertised? Certainly COVID caused an initial disruption in the supply of the necessary parts, and also overseas production, but other industries that rely on chips and semiconductors have recovered as the pandemic has waned. Why is it taking MTH so long? Are there design flaws that are still being corrected? A little forthrightness would be reassuring to those of us who have been loyal MTH customers for decades, not to mention the 37 dealers listed on the MTH website (as of this morning) who have the product on order.
PRK
There's still a ton of issues in the electronics supply chain and manufacturing space. I begrudgingly just took delivery on a nearly $100K vehicle for my business that is missing a lot of bells and whistles until the dealer installs boards that are unavailable. They hope to have it within the year. You also have to factor in the production runs for these things are comparably super small. I can't imagine they would produce more than a few thousand or so at a time.
I have difficulty with them producing a few thousand in the first run! That's a significant risk to take with a brand new product that has lots of potential for teething issues when it gets to the field! I'd think a run of a few hundred to a thousand would be more realistic for something this different than anything before it.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:IMO, that's not an answer. You should have to wade through an hour and a half of video to find out information that one or two sentences would convey! Not everyone wants to sit through a lengthy video for one simple piece of information.
John, they only mentioned “shortage of components” as the reason for delay. I have to think it is a combination of that, component cost and a reliable/consistent supply to be able to deliver a finished product.
For those who wish to watch it, the DCS portion of the video is at 14:45 - 25:20.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I have difficulty with them producing a few thousand in the first run! That's a significant risk to take with a brand new product that has lots of potential for teething issues when it gets to the field! I'd think a run of a few hundred to a thousand would be more realistic for something this different than anything before it.
John, they did mention beta testing is in progress now. Not sure how much change might be expected based on beta testing for the June production run. Hopefully the long development window results in better than average software and hardware.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I have difficulty with them producing a few thousand in the first run! That's a significant risk to take with a brand new product that has lots of potential for teething issues when it gets to the field! I'd think a run of a few hundred to a thousand would be more realistic for something this different than anything before it.
With the first TIU before release there were beta testers. Any this time around? Even with beta testers there was still a ton of bugs that needed fixing on the first TIU both software and hardware.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:IMO, that's not an answer. You should have to wade through an hour and a half of video to find out information that one or two sentences would convey! Not everyone wants to sit through a lengthy video for one simple piece of information.
It was addressed in the first 20 minutes. MTH knew it was a hot-button issue. The poster said he is a loyal MTH customer, why wouldn't you want to tune in to get live information directly from the manufacturer in real-time?
@superwarp1 posted:With the first TIU before release there were beta testers. Any this time around? Even with beta testers there was still a ton of bugs that needed fixing on the first TIU both software and hardware.
Hey Gary, See my reply above. They mentioned Beta testing is currently in progress.
I think the real "BETA TEST" will be when they ship in volume, same with Lionel's BASE3. Having a handful of folks tinkering with the system is not the same as having a thousand or so using it.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I think the real "BETA TEST" will be when they ship in volume, same with Lionel's BASE3. Having a handful of folks tinkering with the system is not the same as having a thousand or so using it.
I am in total agreement with you John. Nothing like a few thousand motivated testers. I just hope MTH will respond properly to the feedback to provide fixes and improvements.
@PRKTRAINS posted:Isn't time for the current iteration of MTH to publish on their website or this Forum some type of honest statement about why this is taking so much longer than originally advertised? Certainly COVID caused an initial disruption in the supply of the necessary parts, and also overseas production, but other industries that rely on chips and semiconductors have recovered as the pandemic has waned. Why is it taking MTH so long? Are there design flaws that are still being corrected? A little forthrightness would be reassuring to those of us who have been loyal MTH customers for decades, not to mention the 37 dealers listed on the MTH website (as of this morning) who have the product on order.
PRK
It's probably because they are at the very bottom compared to other corporations that have billions of dollars and have millions to spend for priority for semiconductors while Lionel and MTH don't have that privilege. I could be wrong though but that's how I see it. It took Sony 2 whole years to finally get enough Playstation 5's in stores without selling out quickly online due to scalper bots and they are a multi-billion dollar corporation.
The update was explained well. Things produced today all experience the same global wide obstacles.
Until the new unit is hooked up and latest download is obtained, there's nothing more to say.
I was hoping that @gunrunnerjohn was one of the beta testers.
When I was wearing a working hat, I was developing flight critical avionics, fuel management and cockpit instrumentation.
The development process was rigorous to say the least. Then there was a separate verification organization that validated all our work. Next there was the qualification process where the product was tested, zapped, frozen, cooked, and vibrated, sometimes several of those at once. Finally, we submitted all the results to the FAA for review and approval before the product could be put into service. Guess what? There were still glitches that slipped through at times!
Bottom line? I'm pretty sure there will be some warts on this one when it's released!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:When I was wearing a working hat, I was developing flight critical avionics, fuel management and cockpit instrumentation.
The development process was rigorous to say the least. Then there was a separate verification organization that validated all our work. Next there was the qualification process where the product was tested, zapped, frozen, cooked, and vibrated, sometimes several of those at once. Finally, we submitted all the results to the FAA for review and approval before the product could be put into service. Guess what? There were still glitches that slipped through at times!
Bottom line? I'm pretty sure there will be some warts on this one when it's released!
Yup, did the same.
I took part in the design of Boeing 757/67 fuel quantity and cabin temp indicators at Smiths Industries, Clearwater, Fl. The first grey and white LCD indicators back then.
Prior to that gig, BENDIX Avionics, Ft. Lauderdale, BX-2000 com/nav system and radars. RF screen room was up on the roof.
@SIRT posted:Yup, did the same.
I took part in the design of Boeing 757/67 fuel quantity and cabin temp indicators at Smiths Industries, Clearwater, Fl. The first grey and white LCD indicators back then.
Prior to that gig, BENDIX Avionics, Ft. Lauderdale, BX-2000 com/nav system and radars. RF screen room was up on the roof.
Small world, I was also deeply involved in fuel gauging, it was my primary focus later in my avionics career. I did a several bizjet fuel systems, Learjet and Hawker, the JPATS military trainer, Dornier 328 commuter, and the X47 UCAV. Most of my work was out of the Smiths Industries location in Great Valley, PA. I spent time late in the X47 project at Clearwater just before the GE acquisition.
@Chris3671 posted:It's probably because they are at the very bottom compared to other corporations that have billions of dollars and have millions to spend for priority for semiconductors while Lionel and MTH don't have that privilege. I could be wrong though but that's how I see it. It took Sony 2 whole years to finally get enough Playstation 5's in stores without selling out quickly online due to scalper bots and they are a multi-billion dollar corporation.
Excellent observation and related comments. Those of us who work with semiconductors are still living with this every day. The chip crisis is not over yet by any means.
PRK has just assumed that it's already run its course.
Mike
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Small world, I was also deeply involved in fuel gauging, it was my primary focus later in my avionics career. I did a several bizjet fuel systems, Learjet and Hawker, the JPATS military trainer, Dornier 328 commuter, and the X47 UCAV. Most of my work was out of the Smiths Industries location in Great Valley, PA. I spent time late in the X47 project at Clearwater just before the GE acquisition.
Yes, small world then.
Also did all the wire wrapping at Smiths for the Harrier AV8B Marine jump jets heads up displays. 80-81. Then went to SI-TEX KODEN marine next door for 10 years. Ross Engineering, then GTE Mobilnet / Verizon cellular.
We had a few parts shortages along (Japan control then) the way but nothing like today. The world has really changed.
One of my more interesting projects, the fuel system on the X47. I wish I'd gotten to see it fly off the carrier...
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@gunrunnerjohn posted:One of my more interesting projects, the fuel system on the X47.
The X-47/A/B was built by my company. Guess a lot of us in the forum have connections in our past vocations or military service that go well beyond trains. Sorry for taking this thread far off subject.
@Bruce Brown posted:The X-47/A/B was built by my company. Guess a lot of us in the forum have connections in our past vocations or military service that go well beyond trains. Sorry for taking this thread far off subject.
Yep, I guess we're a little astray. I spend a lot of days sitting in conference rooms at Northrop Grumman to have my five minutes of input. You have to know nothing will be accomplished when there are 40+ people in attendance!
Figuring there's only a couple people working on the WTIU, it should have been done long ago!
Did MTH say anything at York about the new WTIU?
@MACADO 1 posted:Did MTH say anything at York about the new WTIU?
Yes I ask Rich Foster specifically about this and whether it could mate to a TIU. They will be coming out in Sept or Oct and they will be doing a video on how to use it and what it will and will not do. Another VERY interesting thing is they are going to develop a remote that will work with the TIU and the WTIU Without being tethered, But that is still in development. They need to get chips and such and finish making Transformers, Diesel and Steam Kits, WTIU's etc First!
@CurtisH posted:Yes I ask Rich Foster specifically about this and whether it could mate to a TIU. They will be coming out in Sept or Oct and they will be doing a video on how to use it and what it will and will not do. Another VERY interesting thing is they are going to develop a remote that will work with the TIU and the WTIU Without being tethered, But that is still in development. They need to get chips and such and finish making Transformers, Diesel and Steam Kits, WTIU's etc First!
Have they said if you could Super mode the WiFi TIU's?
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I think the real "BETA TEST" will be when they ship in volume, same with Lionel's BASE3. Having a handful of folks tinkering with the system is not the same as having a thousand or so using it.
That is a big issue, they need more and varied Beta testors. Many of their previous updates seemed 2 steps forward yet 2 steps back with some unintended issues. It was as if the testors had been told what was updated and they concentrated on that but didn't verify that previously working parts were still functioning correctly. And the loss of the near impossible "Crossing" horn sequence using the MTH remote with lashed up power while keeping the easily done Forward 2 and Reverse 3 "toots" needs to be remedied.
@CurtisH posted:Another VERY interesting thing is they are going to develop a remote that will work with the TIU and the WTIU Without being tethered, But that is still in development. T
My guess is that it will be based on top of the Android app embodied inside of a custom remote-style hardware case.
@CurtisH posted:Yes I ask Rich Foster specifically about this and whether it could mate to a TIU. They will be coming out in Sept or Oct and they will be doing a video on how to use it and what it will and will not do.
I'm also curious about how they'll support multiple TIU's. Bluetooth is mainly a 1:1 connection. The multi-connection capability of bluetooth is fuzzy at best in all that I read, and it sounds like there are lots of caveats on using multi-connection.
@CurtisH posted:Another VERY interesting thing is they are going to develop a remote that will work with the TIU and the WTIU Without being tethered, But that is still in development. They need to get chips and such and finish making Transformers, Diesel and Steam Kits, WTIU's etc First!
I'll believe the remote when I see it. 
We already had a remote that did that, but they choose not to support it!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I'm also curious about how they'll support multiple TIU's. Bluetooth is mainly a 1:1 connection. The multi-connection capability of bluetooth is fuzzy at best in all that I read, and it sounds like there are lots of caveats on using multi-connection.
This will be easy and done the exact same way it is done now with the WIU/TIU combo. Each WIU will have its own IP Address, just like how TIUs can be assigned and addressed 1 - 5. Technically the 5 (W)TIU limit can now easily be expanded to hundreds because you aren't held back by that old addressing system but rather by the number of IP address available on your network.
Bluetooth runs more like a Master/Slave style system, WiFi doesn't have these limitations.
@H1000 posted:This will be easy and done the exact same way it is done now with the WIU/TIU combo. Each WIU will have its own IP Address, just like how TIUs can be assigned and addressed 1 - 5. Technically the 5 (W)TIU limit can now easily be expanded to hundreds because you aren't held back by that old addressing system but rather by the number of IP address available on your network.
Bluetooth runs more like a Master/Slave style system, WiFi doesn't have these limitations.
I forgot this is running WiFi and not BT.
@CurtisH posted:Yes I ask Rich Foster specifically about this and whether it could mate to a TIU. They will be coming out in Sept or Oct
Did Rich say if/when they are going to have just the WIUs? I have one pre-ordered and it said February.
Mike
Speaking of WIU- there is one up on the auction site with a BAD power jack clearly seen in the picture. I'm worried some uninformed person didn't pay attention and bid- not knowing of this major defect.
It might be fixable, it might be junk. Current bid ($153+) is more than you should gamble IMO.
UPDATE: It sold for $262 for a non working broken unit.
Here is what that failure often looks like inside. https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...t-wiu-power-jack-fix
Waiting for the fireworks....
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WOW, $262? I think I'll dig out my spare and put it on eBay!
@IRON HORSE posted:Did Rich say if/when they are going to have just the WIUs? I have one pre-ordered and it said February.
Mike
Sept or October. Possibly may be some in July.
any word on these?
@ChrisFromCle posted:any word on these?
No announcements yet that I've heard. With all of the other short-supply DCS stuff that has been shipping lately, I think it is just around the corner.
@Vernon Barry posted:Speaking of WIU- there is one up on the auction site with a BAD power jack clearly seen in the picture. I'm worried some uninformed person didn't pay attention and bid- not knowing of this major defect.
It might be fixable, it might be junk. Current bid ($153+) is more than you should gamble IMO.
UPDATE: It sold for $262 for a non working broken unit.
And now you can buy them brand new for $180!!
@H1000 posted:No announcements yet that I've heard. With all of the other short-supply DCS stuff that has been shipping lately, I think it is just around the corner.
And now you can buy them brand new for $180!!
Yep, I pre-ordered mine from Trainworld with a credit card and it was shipped immediately at the end of July when they received it. Brand new for $190 with shipping. S-w-e-e-t.....
Will anyone ask the MTH crew when the new WTIU's will be shipped?
I wanted to say at York...
@H1000 posted:The guys who may be at York are not the R&D folks, they would have limited knowledge.
Good point, but presently everyone seems to have limited knowledge on this subject, so there's no harm in asking at York.
Will we get a firm answer either way?
Not likely -- this will continue to need extreme patience.
Mike
No new info on the WTIU from York.
