Yellow Hall Returning?

Call me when they bring back the Green Hall.   

Farmer_Bill posted:

Call me when they bring back the Green Hall.   

 

AKA "the Green Barn" when announced on the PA system for some reason.  (I guess in fairness it was more like a barn than the rest of the halls, and perhaps for those familiar with other uses of the Fairgrounds property, maybe it did regularly serve as a barn?)

As to the original post, that's a bit interesting.  It can't be because the meet needs more space, I don't think.  Seems to be a fair number of empty tables at each meet(I don't know for sure at this meet, but I seem to recall even Orange had a few no-shows over the last year or two). 

If it could be used to replace a number of smaller halls, it might make sense, but I don't see how the layout of the building would work too well for that.  I doubt it could replace more than maybe 2 of the member halls' amount of tables if you were to try to cram the participants in there.

I could take the optimistic view and say influx of extra cash caused by the elimination of the Senior rate for meet attendance will put the event so far in the black that they can afford to rent the extra hall and spread people out.

-Dave

Now don't get me wrong, because I truly enjoyed the "old days" working and shopping  in the Yellow Hall back when I was with Greenberg Publishing. But it is far from being a comfortable place to work in, or even shop in, and I can't imagine going back to those roots again.

If the TCA Eastern is going to change ANYTHING at or about their meet, they absolutely (in my opinion) need to go back to the "old days" of a Friday-Saturday meet schedule. They really need to see the writing on the wall in regard to the changing trends and demographics of the hobby. I must have talked to at least 30 Orange Hall dealers last week who agree with me on this. I never had a chance to visit any of the other halls this time around, but I imagine others in those venues would echo the same sentiment.

And I'm still very much in favor of going to a once-a-year, October-only event for much the same reasons.

But it's their meet, and I certainly respect their right to run it in whatever way they see fit. I suspect it can survive well enough for a few more years, but I, for one, would like to see it have a more promising long-term future.

Alan, I agree. The yellow hall would bring back the memories for sure but it did get tight in there. Also going back to Friday Saturday would be fine. The lack of attendance was little better this time but spring usually ruins that feel. One less day would help

Allan Miller posted:

 

If the TCA Eastern is going to change ANYTHING at or about their meet, they absolutely (in my opinion) need to go back to the "old days" of a Friday-Saturday meet schedule. They really need to see the writing on the wall in regard to the changing trends and demographics of the hobby. I must have talked to at least 30 Orange Hall dealers last week who agree with me on this. I never had a chance to visit any of the other halls this time around, but I imagine others in those venues would echo the same sentiment.

 

Because Saturday is such a big draw? (yes sarcasm).  Maybe just stay with Thursday / Friday.  AT least those days have people attending.  All we hear about Saturdays is no one is there and everyone packing up to leave early.  I'd dump Saturday and move on with life.  It won't be any better if it was Friday Saturday.

Marty very true, I don't recall Saturday being very packed even when I was a kid.

MartyE posted:

Allan Miller posted:

 

If the TCA Eastern is going to change ANYTHING at or about their meet, they absolutely (in my opinion) need to go back to the "old days" of a Friday-Saturday meet schedule. They really need to see the writing on the wall in regard to the changing trends and demographics of the hobby. I must have talked to at least 30 Orange Hall dealers last week who agree with me on this. I never had a chance to visit any of the other halls this time around, but I imagine others in those venues would echo the same sentiment.

 

Because Saturday is such a big draw? (yes sarcasm).  Maybe just stay with Thursday / Friday.  AT least those days have people attending.  All we hear about Saturdays is no one is there and everyone packing up to leave early.  I'd dump Saturday and move on with life.  It won't be any better if it was Friday Saturday.

Every day is Saturday when you’re retired. So how does Thursday even matter? For those of us working jobs all week long, the days really do matter and  having a full day Saturday without table holders slithering away early would promote attendance by working folks who can only go on the weekend. 

The yellow hall will be used for othe gauges. Lionel, MTH, Bachmann, and Atlas all offer HO. If they get on board ED would try to get other manufacturers and dealers in there to attract those interested in other than toy trains. In other words more of the model train community.

And Alan you might just get your wish.

Pete

GregR posted:

Every day is Saturday when you’re retired. So how does Thursday even matter? For those of us working jobs all week long, the days really do matter and  having a full day Saturday without table holders slithering away early would promote attendance by working folks who can only go on the weekend. 

Like it does now?  Again sarcasm.  If all folks not wanting to take a day off went Saturday now, then we wouldn't even be discussing this.  If Saturday was a boom I'd be all for it but as of now, Thursday and Friday are the big draws.  Would that change if Thursday was axed?  I don't know but from what I remember, Saturday was never very crowded and especially after the noon hour.

To me it doesn't matter.  I'll go whenever they have it but you have to maximize the days that show the greatest attendance and that's not Saturday.  Hopefully they can figure something out.  I guess any ideas pertaining to what days are certainly worth entertaining.  

To a certain extent there is a fair amount of sameness to every York meet.   Different pickings but categorically similar.   Since 1994 I have gone every fall/spring, once a year or skipped a few years.  During the times I skipped the only thing I really missed were the people.  Friends and vendor contacts.

For senior attendees who have difficulty with increased fees I would simply suggest to follow some big vendors,   skip a year.

MartyE posted:

Allan Miller posted:

 

If the TCA Eastern is going to change ANYTHING at or about their meet, they absolutely (in my opinion) need to go back to the "old days" of a Friday-Saturday meet schedule. They really need to see the writing on the wall in regard to the changing trends and demographics of the hobby. I must have talked to at least 30 Orange Hall dealers last week who agree with me on this. I never had a chance to visit any of the other halls this time around, but I imagine others in those venues would echo the same sentiment.

 

Because Saturday is such a big draw? (yes sarcasm).  Maybe just stay with Thursday / Friday.  AT least those days have people attending.  All we hear about Saturdays is no one is there and everyone packing up to leave early.  I'd dump Saturday and move on with life.  It won't be any better if it was Friday Saturday.

Does Saturday have low attendance because all the good stuff sold on Thursday with the small remainder Friday?

I don't think doing away with Saturday is a good idea. Then sellers will be packing up at 2 pm on Friday. Thursday is my usual day to attend York. I seem to remember before Thursday was added, trying to walk the crowded aisles on Friday had me skipping the Red Hall altogether. But perhaps, for some of you, that was part of the "fun".

MartyE posted:

Because Saturday is such a big draw? (yes sarcasm).  Maybe just stay with Thursday / Friday.  AT least those days have people attending.  All we hear about Saturdays is no one is there and everyone packing up to leave early.  I'd dump Saturday and move on with life.  It won't be any better if it was Friday Saturday.

Nope, Saturday never was a particularly big draw, but folks (individuals) would simply have to adjust to it or pass on the meet altogether, as increasing numbers are apparently already doing, particularly in April. A Friday-Saturday meet would serve well for most manufacturers, retailers, working folks, students, and the list goes on. Would also cut down on expenses for all concerned. I would recommend a 11 am-7 pm schedule on Friday, and a 9 am-5 pm schedule on Saturday.

Thursday is a tough day for folks who are still employed, as well as for students and others. Retirees can pretty much handle any days or schedule, of course, but retirees should not be, in my view, a primary consideration. And even in their case, expenses play a part.

It's entirely possible that Saturday could become a viable day at this point because times have changed and the hobby has changed with them, if not faster. Saturday at this past meet was, at least in the Orange Hall, pretty much a ghost town. . . no better and no worse than it was back in the 90s before there even was an Orange Hall. But this is a different time, and circumstances are quite different. We oldsters of today--still the core group in this hobby--were a lot more plentiful, healthy, wealthy, and eager to buy than is the case today when many--dealers and members alike--are contending with life's realities involving all of those same considerations, but from a different perspective. That is one of the reasons I continue to recommend a once-a-year meet, held in October.

Don't get me wrong: I truly enjoy York and hope to be able to attend for a fair number of years to come. I am also not in a position to dictate what moves or directions the Eastern Division folks should take. I am just offering recommendations from my own perspective, formed over many years starting back around 1990 when I first attended as a guest after having moved back to the mainland from Hawaii.

Change is in the air, as likely will be evident at the next York meet, but I hope to be able to attend a good many more Eastern Division meets as long as my health holds up and I have some extra bucks available for such adventures.

Just my opinion (that of a rookie who has ONLY attended approx 25 meets). Reduce York to 2 days All Day Friday and Saturday. You still need a weekend day for those still working.  This should be a first step.  BTW the Springfield show in Jan does not seem to suffer with two days.

What the TCA needs to do is conduct a survey  of the dealers and attendees, and then gauge what everyone wants.

I'm not an ED member, so have no say, but I'd consider elimination of Thursday and adding some of the hours to Saturday (with Museum events moving back to Thursday) as a good way to have enough hours to see it all across the 2 days and also support a Saturday attendance/buying/selling  improvement.   I might not agree with the exact hours Allan suggested, but something along those lines.

It's the early pack up situation that kills Saturday, IMO.  The catch-22 self fulfilling prophecy.  Sellers say no one is buying on Saturday, so start leaving early.  Prospective buyers say with all the sellers packing up early, why do I want to waste the half day (or 3 hours, if you were to assume the packing is quite prevalent by noon) walking through aisles that are being packed up and I can't see what  they have to sell?  And repeat.....

But I could be wrong.  Others have far more experience with this than I do.

-Dave

Under the grandstand?!!  I think that is a really bad idea.  You could hardly move under there...if they want to segregate HO, etc., use the "barn" or the one they stopped using next to the "orange", (dealer) hall, "pink", or whatever.  Since the buses seemed to run less frequently than l remember, none was in sight when l wanted one, l hiked, and if attendance is shrinking, the buildings should be closely grouped, meaning using the buildings that are closely grouped.  I don't know if it is chicken or egg..less attendance at York because of no new prototypes and mfrs., or no new either because of fewer people attending York and in hobby?

Allan Miller posted:

 

Thursday is a tough day for folks who are still employed, as well as for students and others. Retirees can pretty much handle any days or schedule, of course, but retirees should not be, in my view, a primary consideration. And even in their case, expenses play a part.

It's entirely possible that Saturday could become a viable day at this point because times have changed and the hobby has changed with them, if not faster. Saturday at this past meet was, at least in the Orange Hall, pretty much a ghost town. . . no better and no worse than it was back in the 90s before there even was an Orange Hall. But this is a different time, and circumstances are quite different. We oldsters of today--still the core group in this hobby--were a lot more plentiful, healthy, wealthy, and eager to buy than is the case today when many--dealers and members alike--are contending with life's realities involving all of those same considerations, but from a different perspective. That is one of the reasons I continue to recommend a once-a-year meet, held in October.

 

Well Allan I think if they go to a Friday / Saturday the meet becomes a 1 day affair.  I could very well be wrong and because of no Thursday, Saturday picks up.  At least that would be my hope.  But I'm with you, I'll continue to go and enjoy myself with whatever they decide.  A bad day York is better than a good day at work.

In regards to a yearly show in October, Lionel will not have a booth in April 2019.  They will be back for the October 2019 meet.  Ryan Kunkle will make a presentation at the TCA Museum on the Wednesday before York.  I had posted this earlier as its own separate thread but it was deleted I am guessing because it turned into a Lionel bashing thread.

Neal Jeter

You will never get the public numbers if the days stay as-is or Thursday is dropped. 

If you want the public to attend, the show has to be Saturday and Sunday during regular hours, like 10-5. If you have to have a TCA only day, keep Friday exactly as-is today. 

.....Show me a public train show (or any family event) anywhere that is only open half-days Thursday and Saturday and all day Friday....