Later Ryan sent me this...
"Technically I only manage the AF locomotive line. So if you have questions regarding sets, track, rollingstock, or accessories it will be much easier for me to forward your questions as an email rather than a voice message if necessary. Steve Hilla is our project manager for the other American Flyer categories."
As you can see we now have a two headed management situation with American Flyer.
This would make sence I think, as I believe Ryan only handles the O scale high end locos as well. He has been on Notch6 a few times explaining his roll with Lionel. I think he is in large part due credit for Lionel's attempts at being far more prototypical in their loco detail. Again...could it turn out bad for us, ya...but I would not jump right to that conclusion.
And...Ryan, that wonderful SD40 in O Guage you have coming out, would be fantastic in S!!!!
Ben
Ryan, Bring S a N&W J or an SP Daylight--they will SELL!!!!!! (and folks can put your streamlined Daylight cars behind it!)
Roundhouse Bill posted:Later Ryan sent me this...
"Technically I only manage the AF locomotive line. So if you have questions regarding sets, track, rollingstock, or accessories it will be much easier for me to forward your questions as an email rather than a voice message if necessary. Steve Hilla is our project manager for the other American Flyer categories."
As you can see we now have a two headed management situation with American Flyer.
I suppose, then the question would be: "Are they going to coordinate with each other?"
Rusty
I'll sign up for the GS4 Daylight today!
--Rocco--
Maybe we should put out a campaign for a Daylight, get all the online folks to email Big L??
Of course Big L wouldn't know what to do with that tender--NO COAL!! Up to now only AM has made an oil tender (not counting the brass folks, the SP Mogul done recently has an ail Vanderbuilt tender).
More thoughts; Bill, who should we send our Daylight emails to?
How about a bunch of S guys sit at the York presentation and start chanting, "Daylight Steamer in S! Daylight Steamer in S, Daylight Steamer in S! Daylight, Daylight, Daylight, Daylight, GOOOOO S!"
Heh heh heh, I can see it now, "S Gaugers demonstrate at York! Read all about it, Big Upset!" Oh, right, no newsboys on the corner anymore hawking papers. . .
Sorry David, It's not a presentation. The Daylight GS-4 engine was not on my question list when I sent it to them in early March so they won't respond to that question. Then it was all about an SD40 by the guys sending me ideas.
The guy I am going over the questions with is in charge of all high end locomotives for O and S so I might bring it up 'off the cuff."
No York presentation? They always show off at York! (at least that's what I thought) I wasn't thinking about your interview, so I can see how that can be confusing.
But yes, keep one "up your sleeve!" It's just a "casual question/suggestion" Until the demonstration! 
Man I hope they got something good to say about an SD-40!!!! Let us know how it turns out Bill! Thanks.
The interview will be in July/August issue of the S Gaugian. I can't place information here until after the magazine is out. Sorry
Bill,
I have a question I would like you to ask MTH about their DCS S Gauge Engine control. I have a controller and the the TIU needed to run DCS Proto-Sounds 2. Will I have to update, change or buy new controller system to operate My S Gauge Engines with Proto-Sounds 3? I am limited to traveling to York any more so I have to ask you to ask MTH for me.
Thank You
Don
Don:
I suggest that you call MTH customer service direct as I don't know anything about their DCS system and the interview questions are more general in context. Also, the questions they will answer are already in their hands.
Thanks
Rather than ask about the chance of producing a specific roadname for a specific locomotive model or rolling stock item, I would prefer to have available undecorated products that the buyer can paint and decal for railroads of his choice, as is commonly done in HO scale. [My first such project would be diesels and 40-foot freight cars for the five major Mexican railroads (all fallen flags) that existed in 1980.]
Gil in Oregon
Gil in Oregon posted:Rather than ask about the chance of producing a specific roadname for a specific locomotive model or rolling stock item, I would prefer to have available undecorated products that the buyer can paint and decal for railroads of his choice, as is commonly done in HO scale. [My first such project would be diesels and 40-foot freight cars for the five major Mexican railroads (all fallen flags) that existed in 1980.]
Gil in Oregon
Unfortunately, unlettered/unpainted products are not really part of Lionel's or MTH's business plans. Neither company thinks in terms of American Models or the former SHS.
While MTH had offered a few unlettered steam locomotives in O scale, they apparently didn't sell well enough to to continue offering them.
And while both companies have also offered unpainted so-called "pilot" or "engineering" models of certain (big buck) O steam locomotives, they have a fairly thick glossy clearcoat applied to prevent tarnish. While some folks go ga-ga over them, they seem to sit on dealer shelves a fairly long time.
Rusty
I can understand their reluctance to sell undec. stuff, mostly because of their toy train background, but it seems like it would be a simple thing to have a handful of a product bypass the paint process without adding any production cost, other than keeping track of them and labeling them. Sell them as a "special deal" and test the market--I'm probably only talking about a dozen or so. (maybe I'm underestimating the demand?)
Speaking for only for myself, I've become less interested in painting and lettering (and building) over the past few years. Part of it is because I spend 40 hours a week sitting at a workbench, looking through a magnifier while chasing electrons, so there's little relaxation gained from sitting at a workbench and looking through a magnifier at home. Another part is the roof over my head has been demanding my attention lately.
This may change once I retire, but for now I prefer decorated and ready to run.
Rusty
traindavid posted:I can understand their reluctance to sell undec. stuff, mostly because of their toy train background, but it seems like it would be a simple thing to have a handful of a product bypass the paint process without adding any production cost, other than keeping track of them and labeling them. Sell them as a "special deal" and test the market--I'm probably only talking about a dozen or so. (maybe I'm underestimating the demand?)
An unpainted sample costs about the same as a painted version for Lionel or any manufacturer with an established history or culture toy model trains. Adding another CSKU is a complication in merchandise stocking for them and the dealers. And, the train enthusiast can purchase a random painted sample and do a repaint, regardless.
Bob
Bob,
I understand the stocking problem, that's why I suggested a "special" maybe only sent to one dealer. A real "one-time-shot" kind of thing. Yeah, even that costs money to do. . . .
BTW, I can't believe that the detailed painting done nowadays doesn't add at least 5% to the cost of the item. The detail painting is held up as one excuse for not manufacturing here as "Americans can't do this kind of work."
I appreciate you guys discussing this, but I am not going to ask about unpainted products. I just don't think it is part of anything they would consider. They are interested in producing decorated products they know will move and not unpainted products for the few in the market who wish to paint their own.
I understand Bill--the only time I was interested in an unpainted shell was when I wanted to show the Portola RR Museum board what their FA would look like done in the very early WP green/yellow stripped paint scheme. Egads, that's a complicated scheme to mask in S! What was I thinking???? (To long ago for me to remember!) They de-accessioned the locomotive anyway & just before it left I painted (on my own time) "American Flyer Lines" on the nose and "Built By Gilbert" on the rear sides. Thought someone would see that during the rail shipping back to the East Coast, but no pictures hit the mags). Who, Me??? (I figure the statue of Limitations has run out on that prank, so now I can admit it.)
I agree with Bill. The majority of consumers are not interested in undecorated items. You have limited questions to ask. Choose them wisely.
Bill's questions have already been decided; all we are doing here now is tossing around ideas--perhaps our "brain storming" should be under a different thread title.
Meantime, we'll all be eagerly awaiting the magazine article!!
Safe travels Bill & good luck with the interview & the meet "hunt" too! Hope the weather holds!
Continuing what is probably an off topic discussion.
For what is worth, I know that a lot of the Boy Scout and Cub Scout Boxcars that were "blown out" by certain Online Dealers for $20.00 were repainted and decaled. I can not imagine that Lionel would be willing to sell an undecorated model for less than you can find an appropriate car to repaint and decal on eBay or from an OLD.
Just my 2 cents.
LittleTommy
traindavid posted:Bill's questions have already been decided; ....
But, the ones I (and others) might ask Ryan while standing in front of the Lionel display in Orange Hall have not. 
I've always done my own campaigning and some suggestions have occasionally made it to production. We'll see.
Have fun.
Bob
Ah, and if everyone reading this forum who goes stops by the L booth and asks for an SP Daylight Steam engine--well, maybe???
Oh Bob, while you're there (the scale folks will hate me for this) suggest they take their 027 double-door boxcar and put AF trucks under it--voila, a "new" S car with little to no tooling costs! Oh, and ask them to paint them in the McCloud River Railroads scheme too! (The McCloud invented the "all door" boxcar for shipping their wood products.)
traindavid posted:Oh Bob, while you're there (the scale folks will hate me for this) suggest they take their 027 double-door boxcar and put AF trucks under it--voila, a "new" S car with little to no tooling costs!
The ghost of A. C. would come back from the dead to haunt me if I did. 
Past 027 conversions to 'S' have usually fared poorly in the marketplace, anyway. I will put in a good word for a Daylight, however.
Bob
Bob, the only past 027 conversions I can think of are the Horse car and the K-Line series. Those cars do look out of place! Look at the double-door car body, it really is S, and matches up with ACG production cars very well; I don't think there would be a comparison by buyers if no one told them where the mold came from!. They could add a Flyer brake wheel to the end to improve it though.
The old "Scout" double door boxcar can be made into a credible S Scale car, but it takes a little more work than throwing a pair of Flyer or Scale trucks under it.
A converted double door Scout boxcar vs. Flyer boxcar:
And vs. Pacific Rail Shops boxcar:
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:The old "Scout" double door boxcar can be made into a credible S Scale car, but it takes a little more work than throwing a pair of Flyer or Scale trucks under it.
A converted double door Scout boxcar vs. Flyer boxcar:
And vs. Pacific Rail Shops boxcar:
Rusty
Hi Rusty,
It looks like you filed away the Lionel ladder and applied a more S scale one. How about the ladders on the ends? I am in the middle of filing off the Lionel one so I can add some aftermarket S ones. Same goes for the hand grabs… However, I am viewing it as too much work and a thankless job. When I look at the roof walk, the whole thought of making is a creditable S scale boxcar goes south pretty quickly. Maybe replacing the roof with a Flyer one might work.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Well, as I said, "The scale folks will hate me for this." I just know that from 10 feet away, rolling down the tracks with other ACG cars, it looks good. Yes, I see now that the ladders would look better with closer rungs although they are a good match for the PRS ladders . Oh well, just trying to get some variety in the offerings without it involving tooling costs! AND the McCloud scheme is pretty nice!! I think it would sell, , ,
traindavid posted:Well, as I said, "The scale folks will hate me for this." I just know that from 10 feet away, rolling down the tracks with other ACG cars, it looks good. <snip>
I am not a "scale guy" but the idea, as Lionel would most certainly execute it, kinda gives me the creeps. 
They really need to up their game and invest in some new tooling, particularly for modern cars to go behind those new modern Legacy diesels.
Bob
Tom Stoltz posted:Hi Rusty,
It looks like you filed away the Lionel ladder and applied a more S scale one. How about the ladders on the ends? I am in the middle of filing off the Lionel one so I can add some aftermarket S ones. Same goes for the hand grabs… However, I am viewing it as too much work and a thankless job. When I look at the roof walk, the whole thought of making is a creditable S scale boxcar goes south pretty quickly. Maybe replacing the roof with a Flyer one might work.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Well Tom, I did this car about 28 years ago last Tuesday.
The ends are a little bit of a cheat. I filed down the end ladders, but didn't want to chisel out the between the ribs, so the "ghosts" of the old ladders are still there:
I used staples for the rungs, a PRS brakewheel set, along with AM ladders and stirrups on the sides and notching out the side sill. The underframe is an Ace plastic one.
The trick was not to go super-duper detail on the car, but to have everything sort of visually compatible with the bulky cast in details.
It's no prize-winner for sure, but it blends in surprisingly well with my sea of boxcar red. And it provided a little variety from AM bocxars back in my early days.
The other shell is waiting for the same treatment, but it's way on the bottom of the priority list. Maybe it'll get Archer or Micro-Mark rivet decals instead of just strips of styrene on the sides.
Rusty
I was at York last fall and suggested the GS4 SP Daylight to Lionel and MTH at that time. Lionel responded that they would have to judge cost and customer interest. MTH responded that they had to get their F3's out before they considered anything else. My point here is that going to Lionel with as many people as possible may send a clear message to Lionel about producing a Legacy GS4 Daylight engine.
So if you are attending please say something to Lionel at the show.
--Rocco--
I have trouble thinking an engine that is not easily adaptable to other railroads as having enough of a market to make it worth producing. Sure everybody has their favorite, but that doesn’t mean it will have a universal appeal. One railroad wonders automatically limit their audience. I would guess any of the URSA designs would have a larger market because the designs were used by many railroads.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Would it be possible to stress to Lionel that S gaugers have no equivalent of O-27 in S gauge and they do not want any? All S gauge must be scale proportioned and not selectively compressed or oversized in any dimension.
It seems like the folks at Lionel need to be reminded of this from time to time.
RoyBoy posted:Would it be possible to stress to Lionel that S gaugers have no equivalent of O-27 in S gauge and they do not want any? All S gauge must be scale proportioned and not selectively compressed or oversized in any dimension.
It seems like the folks at Lionel need to be reminded of this from time to time.
Well, the Gilbert F9's, Franklin 4-4-0's and Casey Jones 4-4-0's were all oversized. And the F9's were terribly proportioned to boot.
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:RoyBoy posted:Would it be possible to stress to Lionel that S gaugers have no equivalent of O-27 in S gauge and they do not want any? All S gauge must be scale proportioned and not selectively compressed or oversized in any dimension.
It seems like the folks at Lionel need to be reminded of this from time to time.
Well, the Gilbert F9's, Franklin 4-4-0's and Casey Jones 4-4-0's were all oversized. And the F9's were terribly proportioned to boot.
Rusty
And they were the end. I tend to agree with Roy.
Tom Stoltz
Roundhouse Bill posted:Don:
I suggest that you call MTH customer service direct as I don't know anything about their DCS system and the interview questions are more general in context. Also, the questions they will answer are already in their hands.
Thanks
Thank You Bill. I will try to contact them again by phone. I had tried in the past but they said they wouldn't go into it over the phone too much to go over. I will just wait to receive my two ab units and try to operate them with my existing controls. I can't go to York, Penn. any more because of my health is very restricting. Thank you for your thoughts.
Don
Tom Stoltz posted:Rusty Traque posted:RoyBoy posted:Would it be possible to stress to Lionel that S gaugers have no equivalent of O-27 in S gauge and they do not want any? All S gauge must be scale proportioned and not selectively compressed or oversized in any dimension.
It seems like the folks at Lionel need to be reminded of this from time to time.
Well, the Gilbert F9's, Franklin 4-4-0's and Casey Jones 4-4-0's were all oversized. And the F9's were terribly proportioned to boot.
Rusty
And they were the end. I tend to agree with Roy.
Tom Stoltz
I agree in general, the oddball stuff did come at the end of Gilbert production.
Oddly, the one O27 car Lionel didn't try to S-ify was the Scout double door boxcar.
Don't anybody tell them.
Rusty
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