BlueComet400 posted:The York meet was established as a venue for private, member-to-member tax-free sales based on the TCA's 501C3 status.
John
Is that not the way it is in the member halls now? Non members technically can only enter the three industry halls to keep the member halls tax free, so what has changed for the member halls?
Dave45681 posted:Simon Winter posted:It's a no brainer. Allow the public into the dealer halls for whatever fee the Eastern Division sets. If they want to go into the member halls, charge them a fee ABOVE what the member cost for the meet is, and give them the option of joining the TCA. If they join the TCA, they (the Eastern Divivsion) could` allow an appropriate part of that extra fee charged for access to the member halls to go toward their TCA membership. I don't know the breakdown of expenses for the Eastern Division of the TCA, but a buck is a buck. It will help defray Eastern Division expenses, and maybe get you some new members.
If they get to see what is going on in the member halls, it might persuade them to join.
Simon
1) It's NOT a no-brainer. Allowing the public into the member halls by just paying a large fee eliminates the "member to member" nature of the transactions for tax purposes. It's got nothing to do with how much money you charge to let public into the member halls, it's that they need to be members to maintain that situation for the tax man to be happy without forcing every member to obtain a tax number for PA and file for each meet. Member does not equal dealer or business in most cases.
2) The public can participate as a GUEST one time to obtain access to the member halls to see what is there. That hasn't changed (also OK with the tax man per long ago agreement we all take for granted).
OK, Let them in one time and call them guests, or offer 1 year memberships.
Simon
I liked the vendors under the grandstand yellow hall. They should bring that back.
Open every day to the public, this hobby needs all the exposure that it can get. Of course charge an admission price each day
Open events will always be in a better position to thrive than closed meets. Just about every show and event that I can name (or attend) for every purpose is open to the public. If York continues as an exclusionary event it will last a few more years, but with rapidly changing demographics that business model cannot survive . The objective of a business is to attract as many customers easily as possible. Somehow this message is not getting across. Ignorance can sometimes be defined as doing things the same way and expecting a different result. When Allentown, a show in two adjoining buildings (with an $8 admission) is able to attract half the audience of York, while the WGHOT show draws a higher attendance than York it seems to prove that there are still people out there that want to go to train shows. Why not reach them all?
If the TCA is serious about getting York to survive than they need to follow the lead of WGH -
A-D-V-E-R-T-I-S-E that it is open to the public. In a 100 mile radius.
So what was the attendance this year?
Closing the show to the public is the best way to kill off the vendor population. Dumb idea at best.
York should be a closed meet. If the public wants to come they can join. If you can't afford $50. You can't afford to buy any trains.
Dennis LaGrua posted:Open events will always be in a better position to thrive than closed meets. Just about every show and event that I can name (or attend) for every purpose is open to the public. If York continues as an exclusionary event it will last a few more years, but with rapidly changing demographicsthat business model cannot survive . The objective of a business is to attract as many customers easily as possible. Somehow this message is not getting across. Ignorance can sometimes be defined as doing things the same way and expecting a different result. When Allentown, a show in two adjoining buildings (with an $8 admission) is able to attract half the audience of York, while the WGHOT show draws a higher attendance than York it seems to prove thatthere are still people out there that want to go to train shows. Why not reach them all?
I've high-lited the statements that make especially good sense to me, Dennis, and I support such a good sense approach to the TCA Meet's reality in the 21st Century.
FrankM
Why don't we put up a wall between the dealer halls and the member halls. Basically have two meets at the same time: one open to all and one open to members only. The dealers will get the added traffic and the public will get a chance to see the hobby. The member halls will retain their tax free status :-)
Moonson posted:Dennis LaGrua posted:Open events will always be in a better position to thrive than closed meets. Just about every show and event that I can name (or attend) for every purpose is open to the public. If York continues as an exclusionary event it will last a few more years, but with rapidly changing demographicsthat business model cannot survive . The objective of a business is to attract as many customers easily as possible. Somehow this message is not getting across. Ignorance can sometimes be defined as doing things the same way and expecting a different result. When Allentown, a show in two adjoining buildings (with an $8 admission) is able to attract half the audience of York, while the WGHOT show draws a higher attendance than York it seems to prove thatthere are still people out there that want to go to train shows. Why not reach them all?
I've high-lited the statements that make especially good sense to me, Dennis, and I support such a good sense approach to the TCA Meet's reality in the 21st Century.
FrankM
Except that the TCA is not a "business".
The TCA is an international non-profit organization of people who operate and collect toy trains, toy train accessories, toy train books, toy train paper, and anything else rail transport related, whose mission is basically to develop an appreciation of, preserve and promote the growth and enjoyment of collecting and operating toy, model and scale trains.
Somehow this message is not getting across. Ignorance can sometimes be defined as doing things the same way and expecting a different result.
The O.P. of above doesn't get the the fact that this argument doesn't apply to the public attending York.....if more (public) folks were into O Gauge, this thread would almost be a moot. It's simple, join or don't join the TCA! That is ignorance 4 sure!
Why don't we put up a wall between the dealer halls and the member halls. Basically have two meets at the same time: one open to all and one open to members only. The dealers will get the added traffic and the public will get a chance to see the hobby. The member halls will retain their tax free status :-)
Don't know if CAPPILOT has really read/comprehended the descriptions of York A L R E A D Y having exclusive "members only halls", but the above quote indicates how this thread keeps its' legs ( oh WHY?) ................the reason the EDTCA York show is what it is, comes from many clever thinking heads ALREADY having mulled over the logistics of having such a show, and the votes of TCA members. The EDTCA show is fine as it is........it was always meant as a members only, just like your OWN family activities are exclusionary, until a friend is invited or new son-in-law enters the picture!
I'm sorry but some of you start from a faulty premise, and this is where it is different from some of the for-profit shows previously mentioned. The function of the York Meet is NOT to maximize profit, it is to serve as a Meet for TCA members. It is a function of the Eastern Division of the TCA. I don't know why some of the gentlemen on this forum have a hard time grasping this concept. It is rehashed over and over and over again, every six months like clockwork.
I think the Eastern Division and the TCA have embraced whatever makes sense (TO THEIR MEMBERS) to make their Meet a success. IF the Meet shrinks in size, so be it, as that Meet serves the needs of its members.
Member halls will NEVER be open to the general public, as most Eastern Division members do NOT want this to happen. There are several reasons for this. Among them is the taxation issue, but this is not the only issue.
Dealer halls are open to the public. I think this is a great idea. If there is enough extra revenue to entice the dealers to continue to come to Meet, I think this is a win - win, as this is advantageous to the membership as well.
Regarding TCA membership, this is a members only Meet. If you want to attend (go to the member halls) you must be a TCA member. Again, I don't understand why this is a difficult concept to understand. The ability to be a one-time guest at the meet, is also a great idea. One can be the guest of a TCA member, or of the TCA itself. The TCA reports that there were 60 new members joining the organization at the October 2018 meet. New members can join with a trial membership or a regular membership.
Personally, I think TCA's idea of allowing folks to be one-time guests of the TCA itself is a great idea. I had always wanted to go to York, but being more of a scale model train operator than a collector of toy trains, had never joined the TCA. I had so much fun at the Meet this past Thursday, that I have joined the TCA.
As a new member of the TCA's Eastern Division, kudos to the Eastern Division for putting on such a fun event!
Jim
If it's THAT important, maybe folks show move within the boundaries of the EDTCA so they can directly influence how York is run.
Rusty
Take a chill pill, Red. I was only responding to the prior poster(s) who opined that the TCA is a business - which is untrue - and insinuated that it should be operated as a business.
That proposition is contrary to and runs afoul of the explicit purposes for which the TCA was formed in the 1950's in the first place. As a non-profit organization, you cannot simply decide one day to start operating a business and violate your own by-laws and tenents.
Maybe that's unimportant to you, but that's something, IMHO, that all TCA members should take seriously and that the public should understand.
The public has only been invited t York the last few years and, secondly, only as an accommodation to some people "screaming" to let them in. More importantly, the fact that the public can attend the event does not automatically change the TCA's primary focus and non-profit purposes into running a "for-profit" business.
It always amuses me that outsiders want to tell a private, non-profit association that's been around for over 60 years how to run their organization. If people feel so strongly about this issue, here's a thought - stop complaining and start your own freaking event - rent a fairgrounds - line up the vendors - publicize the heck out of it - charge admission - and run it as a business. And then let's see how you do.
'nuff said.
Richie C. posted:Moonson posted:Dennis LaGrua posted:Open events will always be in a better position to thrive than closed meets. Just about every show and event that I can name (or attend) for every purpose is open to the public. If York continues as an exclusionary event it will last a few more years, but with rapidly changing demographicsthat business model cannot survive . The objective of a business is to attract as many customers easily as possible. Somehow this message is not getting across. Ignorance can sometimes be defined as doing things the same way and expecting a different result. When Allentown, a show in two adjoining buildings (with an $8 admission) is able to attract half the audience of York, while the WGHOT show draws a higher attendance than York it seems to prove thatthere are still people out there that want to go to train shows. Why not reach them all?
I've high-lited the statements that make especially good sense to me, Dennis, and I support such a good sense approach to the TCA Meet's reality in the 21st Century.
FrankM
Except that the TCA is not a "business".
The TCA is an international non-profit organization of people who operate and collect toy trains, toy train accessories, toy train books, toy train paper, and anything else rail transport related, whose mission is basically to develop an appreciation of, preserve and promote the growth and enjoyment of collecting and operating toy, model and scale trains.
And yet, I smell money at the heart of it all. Such words as "preserve and promote the GROWTH and enjoyment of collecting..." Each of those considerations requires MONEY. No? The more the merrier, too, eh? Huh? And where does it come from in any SUSTAINED way? Less visitors/ Less hobbyists? Being unwelcoming?
So, I guess what I am suggesting is>>>>>>CHANGE what was and is to something NEW and better.
's idealMoonson posted:Richie C. posted:Moonson posted:Dennis LaGrua posted:Open events will always be in a better position to thrive than closed meets. Just about every show and event that I can name (or attend) for every purpose is open to the public. If York continues as an exclusionary event it will last a few more years, but with rapidly changing demographicsthat business model cannot survive . The objective of a business is to attract as many customers easily as possible. Somehow this message is not getting across. Ignorance can sometimes be defined as doing things the same way and expecting a different result. When Allentown, a show in two adjoining buildings (with an $8 admission) is able to attract half the audience of York, while the WGHOT show draws a higher attendance than York it seems to prove thatthere are still people out there that want to go to train shows. Why not reach them all?
I've high-lited the statements that make especially good sense to me, Dennis, and I support such a good sense approach to the TCA Meet's reality in the 21st Century.
FrankM
Except that the TCA is not a "business".
The TCA is an international non-profit organization of people who operate and collect toy trains, toy train accessories, toy train books, toy train paper, and anything else rail transport related, whose mission is basically to develop an appreciation of, preserve and promote the growth and enjoyment of collecting and operating toy, model and scale trains.
And yet, I smell money at the heart of it all. Such words as "preserve and promote the GROWTH and enjoyment of collecting..." Each of those considerations requires MONEY. No? The more the merrier, too, eh? Huh? And where does it come from in any SUSTAINED way? Less visitors/ Less hobbyists? Being unwelcoming?
So, I guess what I am suggesting is>>>>>>CHANGE what was and is to something NEW and better.
I agree that Money is at the heart of it, but I think there's a distinction between a non-profit organization needing money to sustain itself and promote it's mission versus going into business for itself.
It seems to me that the TCA has done a pretty good job for the last 60 years at sustaining itself and promoting the hobby by raising money through dues and other charitable endeavors - No ?
And why does it fall on the TCA to have to change its fundamental non-profit model, eh ? Let's not forget that York is primarily a "meet" for members all across the world to come together to enjoy the hobby. I'm sure if they start running out of Money, we'll know about it.
If none of the malcontents are willing to step up to the plate and start their own show instead of criticizing the TCA, how about the major manufacturers getting together and forming a trade association and putting on the biggest and baddest train show in the country instead of relying on a non-profitorganization to promote the hobby ?
As far as being "unwelcoming", I have no first-hand knowledge of that and am always skeptical of third-party stories I hear. Besides, I'm from Massachusetts - we're all very welcoming here ! 
As a member and director of several non-profits, I know it's a death spiral to not be able to promote an organization to the public by offering them a taste of what the organization is all about. The TCA membership is aging and shrinking; in no alternate universe is that a good thing. The TCA is not a charity; it's goal is not to give away whatever money it raises, and even charities need to evolve to ensure their survival. The TCA IS a business whether or not it's a non-profit; it needs $$ to achieve its goal of providing benefits to and to grow its membership. I believe the Eastern Division did a smart thing by opening its marketplace to the public; the dealers who are TCA members should have the opportunity to sell their wares to help them thrive and remain an integral part of this hobby. Some of the show must remain members-only however, so it doesn't overstep its mission for its members. As long as the Eastern Division is careful not to veer too far away from its mission, this can only benefit the TCA and its members.
Well, I have to step up here.......Is Richie C and Dennis the same person? I think not! If Richie bothered to read and comprehend and REALIZE that I copied a quote from Dennis , (above my words) which was what I was referring too..........
He'd see that we were explaining the same TCA conditions to those arguing for a completely open EDTCA meet (among other points)
I'll take the chill pill if Richie puts his tinfoil hat back on..........leaving it on so I don't have to respond to really misguided posts......
This debate about whether the TCA should operate more like a business or as a non-profit is reminiscent of why I usually throw the National Headquarters News in the recycling bin as soon as it arrives. I have never been a part of an organization whose bylaws are amended several times a year after protracted debate. Ever hear or rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?
Now I realize that by tossing the HQ News I am missing out on having a member complaint form readily at hand, parsing the nuances of the latest iteration of the bylaws or wading through a 'publication' that is at least 80% advertising sent to me from a Non-Profit organization.
As my last post suggesting that the TCA and the York show should become more welcoming and friendly was deleted by the moderators I am sure this one will not last long so let me make my point and hope at least a few people see it.
As a non-profit the TCA can act as a business where doing so would result in greater success. Just like I am sure the TCA has those new fangled gadgets called 'komputers' in at least some of its offices it would have greater success if it were to do more to attract additional members and spent less time on rules and bylaws.
The TCA isn't a business per se (a 501c3 is either a service organization or an educational organization, or with the TCA, both), but there are business principles that it or any group/club can and should be looking at. One of the cardinal rules of business is to attract new clients, a bar that caters only to a a clique of regulars isn't going to stay in business long, a car brand that only attracts 'old men' (Buick, anyone?) isn't going to last. Ideally a business will grow, but at the very least, you want a model where you have replacement, where your business might not grow but also doesn't contract, replacement is better than decline, and slower decline is better than rapid decline.
To me it sounds like those running York understood that a closed group that doesn't promote itself is going to end up like the old man bar that withers and dies. The first change I recall them making, that caused many to grumble, was to stop the requirement that other TCA members had to vouch for you, whatever benefit that gave was outweighed by it being a hurdle. I think it was a great compromise to turn York into a hybrid, where the general public can experience some things, while keeping member only benefits, and by allowing non members to experience the member experience, the way a YMCA or Gym allows someone to get a temporary membership to see if they like it, which is a path to new people joining. Yeah, if toy trains were the thing of the day, if there was tons of interest among the public, a closed meet would make new members join to be part of the 'gang'; but given that isn't the way it is, having an 'exclusive club' translates into decline when you have something that for various reasons is not in the public mindset or is in some ways dwindling. Making York closed again is like shooting yourself in the foot just before a race you are hoping to run.
Melvin P posted:Closing the show to the public is the best way to kill off the vendor population. Dumb idea at best.
Really? Show open to public in Orange Hall. Lionel skips meet last week.
Sorry, Red - your post didn't include any quotation marks as to a prior post.
In fact, it stated, "The O.P. of above doesn't get the the fact that this argument doesn't apply to the public attending York.....if more (public) folks were into O Gauge, this thread would almost be a moot. It's simple, join or don't join the TCA! That is ignorance 4 sure!"
I was the O.P. immediately above that. If you meant to comment on someone else's post or quote above mine, then you should have hit "reply with quote" on their post or done a better job of quoting someone else's remarks, so I don't have to waste time on someone's unintelligible posts.
I'll put the tin foil hat on after you put the cone on.
York should be whatever the members of the Eastern Division of the TCA want it to be. It really is as simple as that. All the rest of us can either choose to partake of their hospitality or simply pass on the event.
Personally, I have thoroughly enjoyed every York Meet I have been fortunate enough to attend since 1989, and even though I may have offered my suggestions for changes in the past, they were/are nothing more than suggestions.
BIGKID, I drive a BUICK. 
Allan, Your right on.
Finally, the thread we've all been waiting for.
The first several posts were flat and unemotional. We finally got the " I don't want to join or pay dues," people involved and got this train rolling.
I see 13 pages coming on this thread!
eddie g posted:BIGKID, I drive a BUICK.
I got you beat. I'm the only Republican NRA member driving a Subaru Outback.
bigkid posted:a car brand that only attracts 'old men' (Buick, anyone?)
Buick also is attractive to Chinese Communists. It's the top seller in China.
Joe Hohmann posted:bigkid posted:a car brand that only attracts 'old men' (Buick, anyone?)
Buick also is attractive to Chinese Communists. It's the top seller in China.
The Buicks sold in China are not the same models sold here (the Envoy I believe is made there though), but that misses the point.Buick in the US is known as an old man car, its buying demographics have the typical buyer late 40s and up, and for the long term that isn't good,it is why Olds was shut down. Buick knows that,it is why its advertising leans heavily on 'this isn't your father's Buick', or you see ads featuring these young,hip urban types 'that's a Buick???'.
And the analogy is clear, you don't attract new audience you die off,you need to attract new blood in the long run.
See this thread has shifted to Buick's (which I find the music used in the commercials very annoying,) maybe it's time for this to become a closed thread...
Rusty
Dave45681 posted:jd-train posted:I would disagree that it should be a totally closed meet.
If the public sales help make is worthwhile for the dealers to go to York, I see this as a win for everyone!
Jim
But that point is under debate, to the best of my knowledge.
For years, the cry from dealers was to let the public in, so they could experience the meet. That has now happened for the dealer halls over the last few meets, but this is the meet where several importers and magazine companies decided to not attend, so apparently the public did not enhance their bottom line enough to balance the decline due to other factors.
So whether it helped is debatable. As J611 mentioned, the demographic remains the same. That factor cannot be altered much by admitting the public, it would seem.
The (sad, but true) joke among me and my dealer and some other colleagues that socialize at York is that "20 years ago, when I joined (shortly after graduating college and having a real job), I was one of the youngest members of the TCA. It's now 20+ years later, and I am still one of the youngest members of the TCA."
-Dave
Ditto that.
Joe Hohmann posted:Dan Padova posted:The way I understand it, is that not all of the halls are open to the public. Why ?
Well, if all the halls were open to the public, some of us may decide not to pay TCA membership dues any more just to be able to attend York. As it is, we may have already lost a few who were only interested in what was being sold in the Orange and Purple Halls. We are already loosing members due to old age and death. Why add another reason?
Bingo. People who are saying they see no reason not to have it open to the public need to understand this. I think a lot of former members now just pay the small fee to attend as a member of the public.
I am not saying it should not be open to the public, but it requires the inside knowledge of the numbers and a strategy. Not some kind of no brainer
pennsy484 posted:Dave45681 posted:jd-train posted:I would disagree that it should be a totally closed meet.
If the public sales help make is worthwhile for the dealers to go to York, I see this as a win for everyone!
Jim
But that point is under debate, to the best of my knowledge.
For years, the cry from dealers was to let the public in, so they could experience the meet. That has now happened for the dealer halls over the last few meets, but this is the meet where several importers and magazine companies decided to not attend, so apparently the public did not enhance their bottom line enough to balance the decline due to other factors.
So whether it helped is debatable. As J611 mentioned, the demographic remains the same. That factor cannot be altered much by admitting the public, it would seem.
The (sad, but true) joke among me and my dealer and some other colleagues that socialize at York is that "20 years ago, when I joined (shortly after graduating college and having a real job), I was one of the youngest members of the TCA. It's now 20+ years later, and I am still one of the youngest members of the TCA."
-Dave
Ditto that.
I honestly don't understand what there is to debate on my original comment.
The dealers don't care if their sales were made to TCA members, TCA guests, or the general public. They look at the bottom line to see if sales justify their costs to attend.
Worse case scenario would be zero additional sales to a dealer from the general public. Any sales to the general public would be sales above those of TCA members and guests. If total sales from all TCA members, guests, and the public do not meet their expectations, they may opt to not attend future Meets.
I wouldn't sit back and wait for factual numbers from the dealers on sales to the general public. When I purchased items from three different dealers all they did was record the item number and sales price.
Jim
jd-train posted:pennsy484 posted:Dave45681 posted:jd-train posted:I would disagree that it should be a totally closed meet.
If the public sales help make is worthwhile for the dealers to go to York, I see this as a win for everyone!
Jim
But that point is under debate, to the best of my knowledge.
For years, the cry from dealers was to let the public in, so they could experience the meet. That has now happened for the dealer halls over the last few meets, but this is the meet where several importers and magazine companies decided to not attend, so apparently the public did not enhance their bottom line enough to balance the decline due to other factors.
So whether it helped is debatable. As J611 mentioned, the demographic remains the same. That factor cannot be altered much by admitting the public, it would seem.
The (sad, but true) joke among me and my dealer and some other colleagues that socialize at York is that "20 years ago, when I joined (shortly after graduating college and having a real job), I was one of the youngest members of the TCA. It's now 20+ years later, and I am still one of the youngest members of the TCA."
-Dave
Ditto that.
I honestly don't understand what there is to debate on my original comment.
The dealers don't care if their sales were made to TCA members, TCA guests, or the general public. They look at the bottom line to see if sales justify their costs to attend.
Worse case scenario would be zero additional sales to a dealer from the general public. Any sales to the general public would be sales above those of TCA members and guests. If total sales from all TCA members, guests, and the public do not meet their expectations, they may opt to not attend future Meets.
I wouldn't sit back and wait for factual numbers from the dealers on sales to the general public. When I purchased items from three different dealers all they did was record the item number and sales price.
Jim
I was on the board of a school and a previous board lowered tuition a thousand bucks to attract new students. No-brainer? Didn't increase admission but cost the school $200k per year.
How many folks ditched TCA membership at $50, plus York admission, for just paying public admission? There are other factors to consider.
I guess a good answer, or question to sellers that set up tables, and ask them which they would prefer and did it help their sales any having open to public? Also did it influence any of the public into trains and potential future members?
jd-train posted:I honestly don't understand what there is to debate on my original comment.
The dealers don't care if their sales were made to TCA members, TCA guests, or the general public. They look at the bottom line to see if sales justify their costs to attend.
........
I'll apologize since it was my first reply to your comment that keeps popping up.
My point was just that the addition of the public may not have "made it worth the Dealers' while to come" since several did not come to this most recent meet.
My main point was that if the public didn't all go to a previous York meet before this one (how many times have you heard of something and said "I'll try to do that one day when I can fit it in my schedule..." vs. "I'm going to do that the first time it happens, regardless of what else may be going on in my life at the time"? I'll bet some people heard that "oh the public is allowed in now" when it started a few meets back, but maybe didn't attend right away. If any of them went for the first time this meet, they missed seeing Lionel, Atlas, OGR, and CTT (at least - maybe others). If the public shows up and says "What do you mean Lionel(Atlas/OGR/CTT) isn't here? They've always been here before?!", They'd possibly be a little upset that they bothered, depending on their interests, of course.
So some dealers gave it only a few meets with the added public before bailing on this April's meet (and presumably future Aprils - but I don't know if any have officially declared that yet). Those dealers will likely tell you the "public admission" ball got rolling too late and they were losing money coming to the meet for quite a while before the public was admitted. Which may in fact be true. But now any public that did come got to see a few large empty areas for the 2 importers and the 2 largest paper publications in O gauge. (as well as the other empty spots not specifically mentioned - I am not trying to compile a complete list here)
The point brought up in other posts about people who bailed on their membership since they can now get into the Dealer halls without being a member is a good one, though. Some may claim they mostly shopped for new items in those 2 halls anyway. I suspect some probably used to at least take a walk through one or 2 of the Member halls, and who knows maybe one of 10 people like that bought something from a member's table.
So possibly the Member halls suffer a little from people who say "If I can get into Dealer halls without membership, I can't justify the $50 membership to just walk through the Member halls on the low chance I may buy something". So the Member halls may indirectly suffer from the public admission, but not as much as TCA National does from the lost memberships.
My 4 cents (too long for just 2 cents 
)
-Dave
Jeff,
Respectfully, I think this is an apples to oranges comparison. My comment wasn't directed as to whether it was good for the TCA itself, but was it good for the dealers to be open to the public. In extension, is it good for the members (personally) to have a greater opportunity to purchase items from the dealers at York. The TCA will have to make their own guestimates as to the impact on their bottom line, and whether it matters to the organization. TCA would also likely have to factor in the value, if any, of promoting the hobby to none TCA members by having the dealer halls open to the public.
Josef asks some good questions, but I'm not sure (base on my experience with three dealers) whether they would be able to attribute what percentage of their sales to the public and what percentage to TCA members and their guests.
I think the bottom line is that if the dealers find it profitable (no matter the customer type) they may return to York. Otherwise maybe not. Those folks looking for exposure, MTH, 3rd Rail, etc. may based their decisions on other factors.
Jim
Do we have to keep discussing this, yes close it off and ruin the York show for everybody.
If you don't like it the way it is, please stay home and stop torturing the rest of us.
Dave
Rusty Traque posted:See this thread has shifted to Buick's (which I find the music used in the commercials very annoying,) maybe it's time for this to become a closed thread...
Rusty
By all means...if you don't like it, close it. How about you just avoiding it?
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
