Z 1000 and circuit breakers.

My experience with both power supplies would suggest that you need no additional breakers. We had the same mix of trains and completely powered the Eagle Scout project layout with Z - transformers.

They do require that you remove power to reset them, also, which is another safety factor.

Many hands and tools and cars bumped and such during work sessions that resulted in a kick when a train test was attempted. Quick and never failed. Once, in my absence, the breaker was kicked and the users did not know to remove power. Unable to reset, they only ran two tracks. The double insurance was useful. They hadn't checked inside of a tunnel where something metal was on the tracks.

I would use the ACG fuses (fastblow) and an inline holder between the track and transformer of the vintage type of transformers. Stock a few boxes. 4, 5 or 6a will do unless you are running double engine pulmors and in A-A or A -B-A with lighted cars. Then, you need a 9 or 10a

Ok, that's my 2¢...

PS. you'll never notice the difference in the PH180's

Do the Z 1000s require an external circuit breaker to effectively do their job.

No they do not. The Z1000 breaker is more than adequate.

They do require that you remove power to reset them, also, which is another safety factor.

No, that's not entirely accurate. As soon as the issue that caused the breaker to trip is resolved, the Z1000's breaker may be manually reset. Requiring the manual reset is the safety feature.

Thank you both for the information and taking the time to respond.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

They do require that you remove power to reset them, also, which is another safety factor.

No, that's not entirely accurate. As soon as the issue that caused the breaker to trip is resolved, the Z1000's breaker may be manually reset. Requiring the manual reset is the safety feature.

Carl,

That's a suggestion, not a requirement, most likely necessary because UL mandates that proviso in order for the product to be "UL rated".

Further, once the circuit breaker is tripped, the circuit is open and power is off. The circuit breaker itself is a switch and when it trips, it's in the off position. Turning off power and then turning it back on is immaterial and redundant.

I stand by my previous statement:

"No, that's not entirely accurate. As soon as the issue that caused the breaker to trip is resolved, the Z1000's breaker may be manually reset. Requiring the manual reset is the safety feature."

Here is the word on the Z1000 and the PH180 power brick as I understand it and in my personal experiences with the MTH 100 watt power brick:

The PH180 circuit breakers are of the fast acting type and previous versions of this power brick needed no external circuit breakers. That has been the consensus on this site for several years. The newest version is unknown to me, as it has just become available after several years on back-order.

The 100 watt power bricks (as used as part of the Z1000)  that I have (bought new about 3 or so years ago) ABSOLUTELY needed auxiliary circuit breakers. I have them as part of my MTH DCS/TIU/AIU digital control system. Any short (a derailment) would not trip them and instead pop the fuse inside the TIU. But the TIU is screwed to the layout and wired in. It takes a dozen or so tiny screws to get access to the fuses after physically removing the TIU from the system wiring and its mounting point. The 20 AMP(!!) TIU fuse would blow before the100 watt power brick circuit breaker would trip. After about half a dozen of these laborious fuse replacements, I did too things. (I have two of these and both acted the same)

I found a 7 AMP aviation circuit breaker that was about as fast acting as possible (magnetic rather than heat activated). According to the curves in its specifications, it would trip in less than a second, protecting the TIU fuse. To be doubly safe I wired the TIU in the "Passive Mode" which relieves the TIU of providing power to the trains and the TIU only provides communications with the trains. The only down side is you loose the emergency stop feature of the remote so I bought a remote lamp controller from the hardware store for such emergencies. I have not replaced a fuse since this change. The breaker trips fast and reliably. Those breakers are hard to find and expensive. The one I found was used from an Aviation salvage company. Even then it was not cheap. not all magnetically trigger circuit breaker work at the same speed. You have to research them and find the virtually zero delay type.

Now, maybe newer power bricks use different circuit breakers...I don't know but I doubt it as the fast breakers are more expensive, it seems.

LDBennett

..................the nomenclature and specs?  I also use aircraft sourced breakers from Flame.

A search here or on the Model Train Forum will reveal a discussion and specs that were for the circuit breaker I used. I commented on the specifics there. The key is magnetically triggered, about 7 amps, triggers in less than a second. Several manufactures make them. I believe mine is a AirPax (??). Sorry but I did this several years back and have no more information than that. I would have to tear into my layout wiring to retrieve the actual part number.

I have to agree that the Z1000 breakers are not exactly the fastest tripping circuit breakers on the planet, they're a cheap thermal breaker and take many seconds of a significant overload to trip.  Check the specifications.

135% overload, trips in one hour???

200% overload, takes up to 15 seconds to trip?

400% overload can take up to 1.8 seconds, I can see why Lynn's TIU fuses would blow!

Sorry boys, that's not adequate protection in my mind!

The MTH Z-1000 transformers that I work work with have the 6 amp unit and it did very for the transformer to work with. I have been using 3 different 100 amp circuit breaker units and the work very well.

Some body well tell me about you the transformer with special uses for the new transformer, but I have never found allow reason why I shy use a smaller transformer for the use with my transformer. 

To be honest I have found more bad use with with Lionel new transformers, like the CW-80.

Lee

I use 2 Z1000's one each for fixed 1 and fixed 2. Just recently went to passive mode...kinda of a spiritual,respect to my tiu which has never failed me. I have always used 7.5 amp fast blow agc fuses from the transformer to each  tiu channel. I also use this UP battery and line conditioner in front of the TIU and layout electronics.

So GRJ, which fast breaker do you recommend to use with the MTH Z-1000 power packs?  

I need to protect ten Z-1000s on my layout.  

Additionally, I have ten MRC control master-20  DC power packs with which I use the Flame aircraft breakers.  They are reliable but can take a full second or two break.  What would be your suggestion for a DC application? 

I am most concerned with protection for  the PS-2 & PS-3 MTH units.

My 2 rail RR is AC/DC dual conventional power capability with a mixture of MTH DCS and Lionel  &  Sunset DC locomotives.

There doesn't seem to be any "cheap" alternatives for really fast circuit breakers.  I'd consider looking at the PowerShield X breakers for DC, they should be vastly superior to the Z1000 circuit protection.

I was running an old Lone Scout standard gauge with a z1000 transformer that came with a ready to run set tracks and all. soon as I plugged in the transformer the lights on the transformer and the track connectors came on and the train ran nicely. but when I tried putting the third car, the second car's wheels came off the track without my knowledge and the transformer circuit breaker tripped and the lights on the transformer went off. I removed to plug from the wall, manually rest  the breaker but still dd not realize the wheels were off. So it tripped again. Now the transformer light does not come at all. Additionally the supplied DCS remote did not have any control from the start to change direction of the run or speed. 

What do I do to fix the transformer. All the track connections are ok.