Z-4000 + Remote Commander Receivers + PS3 Enginesss = Strange Voltage Drop to Zero ?

Daniel,

   Got to admit I have only 2 Z4K Transformers with the side receivers at this point, and I am running P2, have no P3 engines, and I have never experienced a problem like you have described, with any of my P2 Engines on the Track.   This may very well have to due with your P3 at 4.3 and above.  I hope Barry sees your post and can shed some light on how to correct your problem.  Marty F & GGG also.  I will be very interested in their insights into this problem for sure.

PCRR/Dave

Daniel,

Have anybody experienced anything like this ?

Yes, frequently in the past.

I very, very rarely do a READ (I like all my engines in the Active List). However, I've seen this occur infrequently when doing an ADD ENGINE. There seems to be no distinction between a PS2 or PS3 engine as regards which is being added. I've never seen this happen when moving an engine between the Active and Inactive engine lists, in either direction. I operate exclusively in Super TIU mode.

I've discussed this a few times with MTH R&D and I've learned that what appears to happen is that, during the ADD process, one of the commands  that's issued is very similar to the command to set a Z4K Track to zero volts, as if a TZV soft key is pressed for a Z4K Track. It's not at all an imaginary short circuit, since there's no wait time for the Z4K Track to accept a power-up command, as there would be if it had to reset itself after a short circuit.

I've only rarely heard of this occurring on layouts other than my own. I've just learned to live with it, since it's a very infrequent occurrence.

What I can recommend is that you see if there's any one place where this occurs more frequently on your club layout, and verify signal strength at that location, as well as checking that track for any wiring anomalies.

Since this started occurring after you upgraded to DCS 5.0 yet continued after downgrading to DCS 4.3, I'd be suspicious of something having occurred when you removed the TIU's from the layout, either with the TIUs and/or their wiring. Also, you possibly could have floated a transceiver out of its socket through rough handling. I would also suggest a Feature Reset of the TIUs and reloading DCS 5.0, since DCS 4.3 had a really ugly Super mode bug that affected 1 of every 8 TIUs, causing them to lose DCS communications on a random channel.

Daniel,  Dave and Barry,

Thank you for creating and commenting on this thread.  I have often experienced this problem with the Z4000 on my test bench.  This has occurred with both PS2 and PS3 engines and with both DCS 4.31 and DCS 5.0.  I have only the one Z4000 w/ Z4000 Receiver, which as stated before is on my bench I use for my MTH repairs.  I have adopted Barry's solution - "I've just learned to live with it, since it's a very infrequent occurrence."  If anyone has another solution,  I would like to hear about it.

Jim Osborne
MTH Service Technicain
DCS Beta Tester
Reader of "The DCS Companion 3rd Edition"
Member TCA, TTOS, NMRA. LRRC, MTHRRC. AGTTA, San Diego 3 Railers and OGR Forum

Gentlemen,

    I guess this never happens on our layout because I add my engines via the Green Engine Key not using the ADD Key.    

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

I guess this never happens on our layout because I add my engines via the Green Engine Key not using the ADD Key. 

Exactly how do you do that? The only way I know how to add an engine to a remote is to use: Menu/System/Engine Setup/Add Engine.

Doesn't Engine, SU, Add MTH engine work too?  G

George,

What's "SU"?

If you mean "S/U", that appears on the Engine List screen, you press ENG:S/U instead of Menu:System:Engine Setup. It's just a shortcut that saves one key press.

It goes to the same place to add an engine, follows exactly the same commands to do the add, and makes no difference to DCS.

Barry and Jim,

Thank you for sharing your similar experience.  That is really good to know.

Now, at least, we know in which direction to look:  i.e. TVZ/TZV "noise".  (Both TVZ and TZV are mentioned in Barry`s book.  Just a typo, right ?)

In our experience, it is always the left side of the Z-4000 going to 0 Volt.  The right side of the Z-4000 stays OK with its set voltage. 

Is your experience the same ?  i.e. Only the left side going to 0 volt ? 

Thanks to all who replied to my post.

Daniel

P.S. There is obviously something or a condition that amplifies this TVZ/TZV "noise" problem... and we will try to find out what it is... and let everyone knows, of course, if we find out !

Barry,

Do you know if that TVZ/TZV "noise" is produced by the DCS Remote or by the TIU ?

They are the only two devices capable of RF signals generation, if I am not missing anything ?

Thanks,

Daniel

Daniel,

Just a typo, right ?

Correct. It's on the "pending corrections list".

Do you know if that TVZ/TZV "noise" is produced by the DCS Remote or by the TIU ?

That's a very imprecise statement.

First, it's not noise.

Second, it's a packet-level command, not a DCS (macro-level) command, that's being misinterpreted.

Third, it's the remote that's sending packet-level commands to the TIU, which are being picked up and erroneously interpreted by the Z4K Remote Commander receiver, that's attached to the Z4000.

Daniel,

I have also only noticed the problem on the left side of my Z4000.  Then main reason is that this is the side that my DCS / TIU test track is connected to,

Jim

Hi Barry,

"... it's the remote that's sending packet-level commands to the TIU, which are being picked up and erroneously interpreted by the Z4K Remote Commander receiver, that's attached to the Z4000..."

OK, the term "noise" is not exact, I agree.

Would replacing "noise" by "misinterpreted TZV-alike packets" be better ?

Thanks,

Daniel

Daniel,

Would replacing "noise" by "misinterpreted TZV-alike packets" be better ?

It is what it is...

Barry,

   Yes for some reason I always go thru the Eng Button then start your sequence, just habit, I guess.   Never used the add button to add engines was my intended message.

PCRR/Dave

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Barry,

   Yes for some reason I always go thru the Eng Button then start your sequence, just habit, I guess.   Never used the add button to add engines was my intended message.

PCRR/Dave

Are you talking about the add button being the thumbwheel? You have to use it to add an engine either way. There is no add button that I'm aware of.

Joe,

There is only one engine add process, however, there are two ways to get to it.

One way is via the Menu button. The other way is via the S/U soft key on the engine list screen. Both ways go to the exact same place and perform the exact same functions.

I use both ways, but I'm still at 4.30 and thought that maybe something changed in 5.0 by adding an add engine button in the softkeys or something as Dave was referring to.

Joe,

Nothing in that regard changed with DCS 5.0.

Barry,

  Correct name on the (ADD)  button would be READ.   My mistake for misuse of Ident.

PCRR/Dave