Official York Attendance in Oct. now up.

Ok, let's lighten this up!  Lets just go to Chris' April York Countdown Clock and let the go of all the stress and angst.  

I think the York meet should be four times per year!  Six months between meets is too long!  Even if attendance dropped to 10,000, multiply by four meets and you got 40,000 per calendar year vs. the 24,000 or so we have now with two meets!   Works for me!

I have before suggested 4 times a year, never especting it to come to pass,  but always worry that weather would constrain a mid winter York, if it existed.  The long drives, and flights made by some in April and October might not be possible with a snowfall like the east experienced recently.  Summer attendance might be reduced

by potential attendees because of only so much vacation time available.

Again I ask, what was the peak of highest attendance, if 12XXX is a valley?

I don't go to York anymore so I think they should just cancel the whole thing.

I think it's ridiculous that these meaningless threads go on and on and on...arguing about something the doesn't matter.... WHO CARES?? Either you went or you didn't, you pay the membership or you don't! PERIOD! Go run your trains!  

It's too bad BURFLE's email is not in his profile. If he wants to email me, my email is: edgoldman@maine.rr.com.

12355 attending is not all TCA members.  Did they break out the paid guest attendance and spouses/family member that attend for free?

quote:

12355 attending is not all TCA members.  Did they break out the paid guest attendance and spouses/family member that attend for free?

What difference does it make?

Not sure it really makes a difference since they numbers have never been broken  out into members and guests. Also there is no proof that all 12,355 show up since some pay in advance and have to cancel out due to other plans or dying

But I still would like to know year to year to see if it is up, down or steady

From the recent York primer:

 9. YORK SHOW numbers (unofficial)

Here is the history:

York Statistics – Apr `07 Total Registrations 14,325

York Statistics – Apr `08 Total Registrations 14,567

York Statistics - Apr `09 Total Registrations 14,109

York Statistics - Apr `10 Total Registrations 13,769

York Statistics - Oct `10 Total Registrations 13,648

York Statistics - Apr `11 Total Registrations 13,521

York Statistics - Oct `11 Total Registrations 13,608

York Statistics - Apr `12 Total Registrations 13,403

York Statistics - Oct `12 Total Registrations 13,864

York Statistics - April ‘13 Total Registrations 12,703

(First time below 13 K)

York Statistics - Oct ‘13 Total Registrations 13,523 (Nice increase)

York Statistics – Apr 14
Total registrations 12,225

(699 registered at the door) 80 new members to TCA

Those figures seem to be well within acceptable parameters, especially for a private show. My first show was sometime around 2000, and times sure have changed. The most effective change was the streamlining of admissions for both pre-registered and day of show registrants. I can still remember the long lines at the Silver Hall, waiting to get in as a guest. My sponsor went roaming the halls, and came back about 45 minutes later to find me within the county line's distance of the registration desk, only to disappear back the sales floor. Pre registration for dealers  is now common, and cell phones and photos are permitted. There is still room for improvement, but all in all, it's a well run and staffed show. I sure do give credit to all those who volunteer their time. Debbie Geiser has helped me several times with registration questions. 

I could see cause for alarm if the numbers were substantially lower, but the largest disparity was slightly over 2000, and that was at the height of the recession. I think the show will be around for a while. If I get hit by something falling from the sky, I hope it's a Big Boy!

Don

What difference does it make?  It doesen't make a difference, no Americans were killed.  Just a statistic that one can use to see how the organization is holding up.  How many guest decide they want to join? After all they are only allowed to be a guest once.  How many members drop out and go to the big train layout in the sky?  If one forth of the members bought there spouse or care giver thats brings the total down to about 9600 members.  How many dealers are included in the attendance figure?  How many people attended a Greenburg show over the weekend?   

complain, complain, complain BULL.

quote:

 How many people attended a Greenburg show over the weekend?   

Good idea! Let's worry about the Greenburg shows for a while, and leave the TCA in peace.

Greenburg shows?  Who cares about the Greenbrug shows?  How is attendance

holding up at Wheaton?

Could part of the reason for overall decreases in any recent year be that people who attended both the April and October shows in the past are only attending one or the other now?  For some of us, once a year may be enough.

To All,

I read the gripes and find most amusing. I am proud to be a TCA member. Even though I may never be able to attend either of York shows each year. I often wonder, How many forum members were around before there was a York to complain about? It's my opinion that most if not all of the complaints are being made by a select few. Odds are this select few were not even born when TCA was formed. One of the main reasons for TCA was to form a group of collectors who could have fellowship with one another.

God Bless,

"Pappy" 

Well stated cooperthebeagle.  You went deeper into my original question that the deniers responded What difference does it make.

Seems pretty straight forward..Imagine what it'll be like in a few years?

My guess is while the hobby has evolved, the TCA as the name implies has not.

Leadership has relied on a big gold hall to carry the day but stats show, its short term relief as ugly erosion continues.  

My feeling, in this highly repetitive and evolving hobby, collecting PW trains is yesterdays news.

At this late date, not much can be done to turn it around as the club waits on the last PW soldier to die.

Joe 

The TCA is not the Postwar Lionel Collectors Association, although there are plenty of Postwar collector members.  It's the Train Collectors Association. All sorts of trains. If the organization were to change it's core mission, it might as well not exist.

Sure, there are things that could be modernized. But I doubt that modernization would do anything to grow the membership.

Want to see articles about current product, and layout building?
Try the TCA e-magazine. Better yet, write some articles.

As a 72 year-old, I only spend about $40. at York...however, all of it is for using the men's rooms.

I was one of the 12355 that attended.  Had fun, talked to a lot of friends, saw lots o trains, got a good walk in, ate good, didn't buy a thing.  Can't wait for April.

That's water under the bridge Joe...

Jerry

Wow!  $40!  Big tipper?   Sorry somebody had to spend York in the restrooms?  Where did you eat? We need to be warned......

This show should be open to everyone without being a member  (raise the ticket price if you have to).  That would increase the attendance and further the hobby.

I'm sure the vendors would like to see more people!

things won't change until one of the big guys MTH or Lionel decide that two shows a year aren't worth it and decide not to attend.  When that happens I can see the public being let in on Saturday.

While a majority of the folks participating here consider Lionel and/or MTH to be important participants at the York show, I don't think you can assume that the TCA membership at large share those feelings.

I am glad they are there for the folks that enjoy their participation. Personally, I could not care less. I go through the Orange hall, but do not stop at their booths.

The Eastern States Exposition train show (Springfield) did fine all those years that Lionel was absent (They are back this year).

Burfle has it right. I get angry when I read some of the stupid posts on here. Some of you have no clue to what the TCA is about. I also could care less if Lionel & MTH attend or not.

Some folks for some reason can't understand the simple fact this is a train meet and not a show which is put on by a division of our organizations for its members and guests.  If you want that to change join the Eastern Division and discuss further.

Until then lamenting the meet's perceived shortcomings is a waste of time and energy.  I'd rather go and enjoy all the positives.

--Greg

And furthermore, I think there was some member tax advantage to have the participants all members of a private club. Correct me if I misunderstood.

And further furthermore, non members telling a club how best run their clubs events seems kind of assuming to me.

I, too, have some questions why the TCA meets cannot be open to the general public, even at the same ticket prices.  Obviously, the increased revenue would enhance the operations of the TCA, regardless of whether it came from its members or the general public.  I suspect that many might suggest that if the public can get in for the same price as members, what would be the advantage of being a TCA member?  Well, a lot of people on here seem to extol the benefits of membership irrespective of the York events.  If one is so committed to the principles of the TCA and its goals and does not feel that the dues are so exorbitant, then they don't need an extra benefit to stay as a member by getting exclusive attendance rights in order to spend their money at events.

If the opportunity to attend York TCA events was such a major inducement to join the TCA in the first place, then maybe the membership and attendance at the events would increase instead of decrease each year.  I think it is a lack of interest among the younger people for trains in general.  So instead of creating roadblocks to discourage what little interest there is, we should open things up a bit and liberalize the opportunities to create a market for membership and attendance.  My brother-in-law belongs to a classic car club whose members typically restore 1950-60's cars.  Membership is dwindling because younger car buffs don't identify with the older cars.  To survive in that environment requires a new approach for these clubs--not the same restrictive one of the past, but one that recognizes the cultural changes that are occurring in society generally.  It's worth a try for a brief period of time and see.  You can always give members a small price break, too.

Maybe the OGR folks could create a sticky at the top of the York Meet subforum with the explanation of why the meet cannot and will not ever be opened to the public. I am under the impression that such a document was created by the Eastern Division's president some time ago.

The same issue gets rehashed time and time again.

Or maybe posts about the TCA and the York train meet should be treated like Ebay posts. Once a thread goes negative.... poof, its gone.

quote:

Well, a lot of people on here seem to extol the benefits of membership irrespective of the York events.  If one is so committed to the principles of the TCA and its goals and does not feel that the dues are so exorbitant, then they don't need an extra benefit to stay as a member by getting exclusive attendance rights in order to spend their money at events.

Fact is, there are people who belong to the TCA only to attend York.

Why aren't there calls for other clubs to offer their special run items to the general public. How is requiring people to join an organization to buy stuff different than requiring people to join an organization to attend a function?

Frankly, all clubs are in decline, be it service organizations, hobby and collector clubs, even country clubs. The socialization community has changed and no amount of adjustment within an organization is likely to remedy this situation. Somewhat sad.

The major difference between joining an organization for the privilege of buying stuff and joining to attend a function is basic economics.  Attending a function will not cause the organization to obtain any more money than whatever existing members pay to attend.  Opening up a event to sell stuff to everyone, including the general public, will benefit train dealers and manufacturers as well as the organization from increased revenue.  Think about country clubs today--they are hard-pressed to obtain new members because younger people do not play golf as much as their parents did and these younger people don't feel that the exclusivity of the country club really meets their needs in the existing culture.  Those clubs are facing the same economic pressures.  Another example is the Masonic cathedral in our town that is a venue for cultural and social activities.  For many years if you wanted to have wedding reception there, it had to be non-alcoholic.  That changed over time because of the financial pressures for its survival.

GG1fan, you may be new here and missed the point that has been posted innumerable times that if the Eastern Division allowed non TCA members in, every member dealer would have to charge sales tax. The effect would be there would be fewer dealers leading to fewer attendees, not more.

Unless Pennsylvania changes its sale tax rules this meet will never be open to the public.

Pete

quote:

 Opening up a event to sell stuff to everyone, including the general public, will benefit train dealers and manufacturers as well as the organization from increased revenue

What revenue does the TCA receive from the York meet? It's an Eastern Division function. While Eastern does make donations to the national TCA, I am not aware of any fees paid to national.

By attending a closed meet, the dealers and manufacturers have a tight audience, they can gear their displays to those folks. There are plenty of public shows for these dealers and manufacturers to attend if they wish to reach out to the general public. They can also gear their displays to the general public at those open shows.

Just curious: have you been to a York meet?

Its only my opinion, I think the York meet is only attractive to those who are already engrossed in the hobby. I don't see a lot there that would entice someone to take up train collecting or model railroading.