Binding edges of homasote, priming, etc.

I would not use Homasote alone; it has no structural strength.  You will need some substructure to support it, such as a sheet of plywood.  There is no way, I know of, to keep it from falling apart around the edges since it is only pressed paper pulp.  On a typical layout Homasote is used on top of a plywood table to deaden noise.  In that use you can protect the edges with a fascia board.

My layout is covered with Homosote with a few braces underneath with no sag.  I don't have mountains made out of plaster either. I do have about 20 Lionel cast locos sitting on it.  Some of the Homosote is 30 years old from an old layout.  I really don't think he would have any problems with it.  Use a good tape on the edges but clean them up first.

Use a razor knife and straight edge to score and cut the Homasote.  It will take several passes, but you'll get a clean cut.  You might try using white glue to seal the edge.  spread a nice layer with your finger and let it soak in.

Homasote can span distances of a foot or so without and underlayment. 

Jan

Homasote is essentially very, very thick cardboard....a paper product, if you will...

Wikipedia sayeth..." Homasote is a brand name associated with the product generically known as cellulose based fiber wall board, which is similar in composition to papier-mâché, made from recycled paper that is compressed under high temperature and pressure and held together with an adhesive"

Applied over a surface providing the structural strength (e.g., plywood) it has excellent sound-absorbing characteristics, which is how home builders....and train layout builders...value its principal feature.  

That said, I would suppose a thick coating of common aliphatic resin glue (a.k.a., Elmers). or wood glue,  would bind the edges to reduce fragmenting from handling.  Never tried it, though.  Maybe even a couple coats of varnish?

Be advised, though, Homasote has very little structural strength in and of itself.  IOW, it's usually applied over another surface providing structural integrity, such as plywood, to marry its own sound-absorbing qualities.  I'm not sure what to expect...beyond the fraying edges...using Homasote by itself in a carpet-central train layout application.  

Because it is a paper product, if you apply a lot of paint to the Homasote panels, you may reduce the sound-absorbing characteristics.  You're essentially adding more hardening binders to the porosity which will make the panel more resonant, rather than absorbant.  Also, you may have already noticed that cutting Homasote can be a dusty job.  Using a circular saw....or a handsaw...will generate a LOT of airborne dust in a hurry!   You can use a knife-edged blade in a saber saw to minimize the dust, but Homasote will dull the blade fairly quickly.  

OTOH, if you go to Wikipedia's site for "Homasote", following a brief history of the product it lists the first popular application of the product: "Model Railroading".  Well, whadaya know about that?

FWIW, always...

KD

Paint the edges with latex paint

Ken M

It will probably cost more than the plywood unless you use 3/4"ply.

Dick

Prime the whole thing. The Homasote will suck up the first coat and primer is way cheaper than latex top coat. It will also give you a better looking paint job. You can bind the edges or just paint them. If I were going to do what you are thinking about with the N gauge track I would make a very simple layout - nothing fancy, but I'd put some kind or structure or maybe just 1/4" plywood under it, and do the edges with a  strip of hardwood or thin plywood. 

For priming Homosote I use whoops! paint from HD or Lowe's.  $5.00 a gallon.  For a big job buy several cans and mix them together.  Shoot for the darker colors.  They also will add 'n shake some dark pigment in them to tone down bright colors.

I usually run my Homosote proud at the edge then run my one hand Bosch trim router with a shop vac hose in the other hand along the edge for a perfectly smooth  enduring face.

Thanks to you all for your responses and suggestions.  I have digested them all.  Unfortunately, I've concluded that I purchased the wrong type of board to solve my need to make my track temporarily portable. 

After buying the board and having the lumberyard section it, I now see that what I really needed is this light but strong foam(?) board that the design team at my office uses for mounting posters, raising monitor stands, footrests, and amazing holiday sculptures.   For some reason, I thought it was called homasote -- but the two materials are very different as shown in the attached photos.

This mystery board really is easy to cut with a razor (even for me) and unlike the pressed paper product, the edges remain clean. It comes in thicknesses from at least 1" (shown) down to 1/4".  It seems sturdy enough to tack down my simple N gauge oval with a single siding track, and then stand it on its end to store out of the way while I clean or have guests over.

The homasote adds heaviness and bulkiness to the solution for track that is extremely lightweight -- and that's without the suggestions of attaching it to wood or adding a nice fascia board.  Its sound dampening properties are not necessary because my N and O track will continue to be carpet layouts for a few more years (or when ever I finish graduate school).

That said, this morning I did experiment with cleaning up the edges with a razor (not too bad, although transporting it left a hard to clean up mess on my car's upholstery).  And I will either glue or tape the ends to see how it goes and maybe even paint it as time allows. This will give me a feel for the product and maybe some ideas for using these cut sections in the future.  Perhaps someday I'll get a train table setup in the basement where I can use these?  Meanwhile, after the holiday, I will ask our design team what the white boards are called, the available sizes and thicknesses, and so on.  But I just don't see using even well sealed hemasote on my nice antique rug! :-}.

Oh well.

Thanks again to you all,

Tomlinson Run Railroad

A thick piece of that miracle white stuff the designers at my office use:

A chipped side showing the core compared to homasote:

1" foam board.

Thanks, Tom.  It occurred to me that a local art supply store might have it in stock.  I'll want to go with the half inch.

Best,

TRRR

Some Lowe's have it.  $15. for a 4 x 8[ sheet of 1".  I cut it with a spackle knife much like much like how I

cut the 2".

Drag the edge  of the knife lightly along your scratch line and you will find a sweet spot where the blade slowly descends thru the sheet.

If it crumbs up at the leading edge stop and reset.

You need to drag not saw the slice.

Tom,

Thanks so much for taking the time to provide step-by-step pictures.  I'm pretty sure I have a spackle knife with a large spread blade somewhere.  (I recently used a stiffer, narrower one to fix considerable wall damage from my now ex-cleaning lady.  Hence, my need for easy track pick up solutions for the den's N gauge oval as I take over a less-than-favorite job.)

For now, after my hemasote experiments, I think I will keep the more complicated O gauge living room layout directly on the carpet and continue to pick it up as needed, taking care not to stress the joints tepeatedly.  After reading some posts on 4x8 and slightly larger layouts and "access", I realized how easy mine is to get to all parts of the layout for car placement or track testing just by stepping in the empty spaces.  It's grown a bit beyond that size and now has a spur that curves around a sofa toward the dining area.  Had I put down the homasote or especially now this nice lighter foam, I'd loose that ability to step and even sit in the empty areas or easily reconfigure spurs like that one.  My "scenery" is created by movable photographs in plastic stands, so I don't really need a board underneath. 

I think there's a Lowe's near work and $15 is a great price compared to the $27 plus tax that the homasote cost -- and without the flaking or extra prep!

Thanks again,

Tomlinson Run RR

Just a thought,  The 1/2" or 1"  foam will not have any resistance to a foot or elbow.  I would go with 2" foam.

Or use the 1/2" foam and spray adhesive it onto a thin 5.2mm thin sheet of Laune underlayment.

You may be pushing the impractical edge of durability.

You may wish to look into a full cookie cuter pretzel style sheet of 7 ply 1/2" Birch.  There is/was a guy who sold these types of "layouts" at 3 rail shows around the North East US awhile ago.

I am thinking an all foam effort may have a short life span.

Wow, seems simple, but its really a balancing act of weight, and expectations. More input on your priorities in expectations might help. I wouldnt use the same design for N as O either.

Will you step on it? Lean hard? How big are you. Accident prone? Ground cover or just paint? Room Aesthetics? Temporary? Ie, home to O someday?

Carpet will be quieter. Its the quietest period. But enemy to N scale gears and wheels more so than O. Then homasote, then foam, then ply are next accordingly. Addiing the homasote to the plywood OR the foam would help lots. and to foam would be lightest.

The "sote" only has to be under the track. Sections of foam can keep the homasote contained. A combo of all three in layers even has various options with different advantages in each.

Glue/caulk the track well and that will help stiffen things too.

  Foam and homastoe(ish) ,glued together sounds light and quiet to me.

For edges, You can frame the homasote sandwich with that super light moulding to protect the edges, & look better. Real wood moulding would cut flexing some. But I thi k you can bend the light modern stuff with heat for rounded corner's and less snags moving it.
Say you have a 1.5" tall layer sandwich; use 1.5" moulding, or a 2" one with a step if you want a raised ridge there for an easier grip or to catch a train if ever on a table.

  A final top section(s) in the center of the oval, of wood, hardboard or laminant if you must lean on it . A bottom of ply/lam./hardboard better against flex on the carpet. Both  together for stepping. Etc.

I think what you have is soundboard or ceiling tile?  It will warp like crazy. Good for noise, but not the cleanest. Id frame the edges, adding a hard bottom, and primer  and paint, with some flex compound added for long term properties.

Bottom & top contruction depending on the abuse expect. A "top" or just sections on top, depends on abuse expectations, but Id need one or two for leaning to stop palm divets. A stepping hole in the center possible if your light frame is good enough.

Simplest, good, one shot lightweight would be high density foam 2-3" thick, Grey pimer and black wash so it looks like stone/cement then decorate over that if needed.

N and shag fiber arent buddies, higher is better.

You are the real issue on life & foams. N trains arent going to hurt foam even on an inches worth.

Tom and Adriatic,

Thanks for your further thoughts.  The N-scale version is small and won't be stepped on.  It's only going to be picked up and placed on its long end once a month for all of an hour.  Yes, it will be good to get the smaller scale up off the floor.  I've had no trouble with the oriental carpet fibers but other things had to be removed from boxcar trucks once.  The O gauge is easier to keep the track clean.

For now, I really think I will keep the O gauge on the carpet and do some more thinking because that setup is one I do like to step around, and through, and even sit in to flip siding switches.  And, adding wood board or trim any where is beyond my skill/shop/time level at present and I'm only getting older. :-}

One of the artists at work says they have two types of foam board:  A regular light weight kind that might work.  And heavy duty Gatorfoam board.  The later is very stiff and durable but very hard to cut because it contains ceramic in it.  She also said that I may need to clean up the edges if I go with Gatorfoam. Both types of board come in various thickness but they seem to have 1" and 2".  That is thicker than I'd like, but the artist I spoke with offered to check their school-donation scrap pile for my size.  That would great!  Otherwise, it's $10 or so cheaper than the homasote I bought.

TRRR

UPDATE:

Link to Gatorfoam

Here's one from a RR modeler

Coat the edges of Homosote with Kilz primer.  Kilz is the best but costs more than most.  Get it at Walmart or discount stores.  Oil based is best but harder to clean brushes.  Latex will do.

Charlie

Here's an update: The helpful coworker in our Design Dept. found a sheet of Gatorboard that was the perfect size (for N scale use) but wasn't up to their standards for use and so was on its way to the donation pile.  The board she gave me is only a quarter inch thick, but this is TOUGH stuff!  It's very stiff.

So, when my O gauge living room layout succumbed to the need to vacuum the rug, I thought I'd give the 1/4" Gatorboard a try, in this case with the N scale.  My coworker had warned me that Gaterboard is tough to cut with a blade, so I kept putting it off thinking I didn't have the time to do a neat job.  Originally, I thought I would use brass fasteners so that their tack-like heads could hold the track in place and I'd just spread the ends out underneath.  But, I was worried that my furniture would get scratched unless I taped the underside.  Then, I discovered I had a box of nice white tacks from a bulletin board my mother made me back when I was 10 or something.  It turned out that it was a breeze to push these into the board.  You can even set the shaft at an angle to get a bit more grip -- even in so thin a board (!).  And, of course, the simplicity of the tacks afford future track expansion or repositioning.

The tacks stick out from the back of the board a bit so I got nippers to clip them.  It is easiest to first keep the point on to push the tack in, then clip them.  The vice grip I bought looked like it cut flush in the store.  In reality it leaves some shaft sticking out from the board and I still have to finish nipping the tack points off.  But to my surprise, even the handful of tacks that I put in to test grip strongly enough to hold the track vertically.  It even held, for the most part, when I did something dumb like try to stand the board on its edge while the power supply was plugged in.  One photo side view shows the shiny material that helps stiffen this amazing product (see following post).

Obviously, I'm not saying that Gatorboard is a solution for a large O gauge layout, but the edges are clean unlike Homasote and it does come in thicker widths. (And it doesn't smell! :-)  For my purpose, which was to have an easy way to pick track up off the floor and lean it against something for the joys of vacuuming, it worked out beautifully.  In fact, the super ease of portability led me to discover how much fun it is to run the smaller trains in my sunny living room where I can actually see the tiny little wheels without a lighted magnifier.  Now the only thing left is for the O gauge track crew is to do the durn vacuuming and then decide whether to create an Ingelnook puzzle or the usual off-set twice round loop.  All your tips for binding Homasote may still come in handy but for now, the boards have been relegated to the basement.  Thanks everyone.

TRRR

Track mishap: Attack of the giant ShopVac

The perfect excuse to play ... er ... experiment with 1/4" Gatorboard -- it didn't even need cutting!:

TRRR (more photos follow)

More pix. In the first one you can see the shiny particles at the bottom of the Gatorboard edge that give it strength.  The corners will probably not hold up to lots of abuse but the edges are fine for standing the base upright.

TRRR

Where do you buy Gatorboard ??  Art supply or home supply ??  Vacuuming isn't a problem for me because it doesn't happen very often.

Jim,

It was a somehow defective board from the design department at the company where I work.  So, essentially it was a freebie.  I forgot where they get them but we order a lot. I found a similar-sized Gaterboard on the Internet and it was surprisingly inexpensive compared to the Hemosote that I bought at a lumber yard and had them cut to size.

And, I'm with you on the vacumming thing. :-)  But now I really have to get to it before I "find" one of those tack points that disappeared into the carpet pile when I snipped it off.  Don't want to have to call in OSHA!

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Homosote is a sound deadener and, relatively, easy to work with plus paint. I am still using pieces I bought 30 years ago for an HO layout. At one time it was inexpensive but not now. I never sealed the edges and I stored mine in my garage that got damp in the summer.

"Homasote is a sound deadener"

That reminds me: the Gatorboard makes my Bachmann Sante Fe engine noisier than usual, probably due to its higher density. I don't know whether the sound would be more pronounced at larger scales or about the same.