Question on Legacy battery charging

I just received a Legacy Expansion set and it came with version 1.52 which is the latest and greatest.  I have had a Legacy Control Set since 2013 with 1.3.  It was sent back for lines on the screen and the Charging "Fix" and has been updated to 1.4 and recently to 1.52 by myself.  The charging circuitry has been corrected since one of the latest runs of control sets.  I think the biggest advance is the version 2.0 of the LSU (I am not sure this is generally available since I can not find a link to it on the Lionel Website).  All this to say I believe that the current runs are very stable and no major problems.  I do not have the WI-FI or SER (these require 1.52) boxes in my system yet so can't comment if these are problem free.  But those that do have the WI-FI and SER boxes seem not to have issues.

Thanks Jim! Exactly what I wanted to know. I appreciate the help.

Dep

I got one of the latest 990 sets and the other day I took it off of the base and the hand held was really hot from being charged.  I think Lionel is trying to charge the batteries too fast.  I just might start charging them in my external charger from now on.

That's common with all of them.  It's not that they're trying to charge the batteries too fast, it's just the circuitry in the command base heating things up.

My remote comes out of the cradle pretty warm after it's been sitting in there powered for a spell.  This is with the charger turned off and the contacts taped!

That's also the reason I charge them in the #993 charging base and not the #990.

Sinclair,

I do not think you can really escape the fact that heat is generated when charging. Did your remote fully charge without an Error?

The early problem was an error condition would occur while charging that was indicated that the temperature was exceeded for charging and you could not get the remote to fully charge.  My 990 came back from Lionel and I would still get a warm remote but it then and now will fully charge.

Jim, Go to Lionel's web site and in the Products section go to the Utility Modules (better known as Black Modules). On the bottom left of that page you'll see Software Update. Click on that and you'll get the link for the LSU v2.0.

If the electronic components are getting too hot inside the 990 base, it will shorten their life span somewhat but perhaps one may not notice it in the life of the unit. However, I would think it would be very easy fix for Lionel to put a small Quiet fan in the base and be done with it instead of having to deal with all these hot/charge issues. I just got my new 990 with an old rev 1.2 and I will be installing a small DC fan and some vents to cool it down.

Steve,

I have version 2.0 thanks to MartyE's link.  I tried going to the webpage you referred to only not to find any reference to Utility Modules on the Product Tab.  Like I said if it exists it is well hidden IMO.  A release as great as this is should have a link on the home page and the references to version 1.0 deleted

I think a fan is a very bad idea unless it's really required!  Any cheap fan is a very high failure item, think back to your computer fans, they're by far the most common failure item.  If you want to install one yourself, that's one thing.  However, if Lionel installed a fan, there would be a lot more returns for noisy fans, I suspect they don't really want that.

There really isn't an issue with the Legacy base getting too hot, it run pretty warm, but then so does a lot of electronics.  The issue, which I agree is not optimal, is when you're generating heat in the CAB2 charging batteries in the #990 base, and it's electronics are adding to the heat, that's not a good thing.

Go here.

http://www.lionel.com/Products...ineID=&CatalogId

Click on Software Update.

You'll get this file: 6964SetupLSUv20.zip

That's the LSU 2.0 package.

.

Sam E.,

If you just bought your 990 with V1.2, then I would suggest it has been hanging out at your LHS for some time.  That being the case, I would suggest sending it back to Lionel Customer Service for their updates before voiding your warranty.

No need to send a 1.2 back to Lionel, you just need to get a later version on modules to upgrade it, then you can freely download upgrades.  I've updated several 1.2 systems directly to 1.52, no problem at all.

OK, I read some where that one has to upgrade 990 from 1.2 t0 1.3 then can go to 1.52. So this is good news John that I can go from rev1.2 to 1.52.

I have started converting the old rev 1.1 blue modules that came with my set to the black modules per your method...

As far as charging the remote, I have tons of superb chargers from my old RC turbine world which allows me to charge, discharge and cycle batteries to improve their performance and in some cases bring them back to life...

If you have a 1.52 set of modules, you can take a 1.2 CAB2 and Base directly to 1.52, I've done it more than once.  The only reason to upgrade to 1.3 was because that was the first version that would allow you to write the black modules.  However, if someone makes you a set of modules, or you know someone that just bought a new Legacy that came with the 1.52 modules, you can just load them.

Oh, OK. I see. So I do need to go to 1.3 first unless I get black modules. I will have the blue modules converted to black soon and then I will see if some one can program them for me or I will just purchase the black modules from Lionel...Thx John.

While you can upgrade to 1.52 without going back to Lionel, if you are having problem with the charging circuit I would send it in. The 1.2 batch still had the bad charger in it

as for version I went directly from version 1.1 to 1.52 on my Cab2 that came with my 993 base with no problems. 

Gunrunner, Sam E.,

I am sorry you misconstruing my post.  I should have stated "for any Circuitry Changes" since V1.2 cab and base software was released.

No problem, say what you mean, mean what you say.

We're all good, and I think we're on the same page now.

I hate to say it, but you guys have convinced me to NOT buy the Legacy system and stay with my MTH unit. Anyway, thanks for the honest feedback.

Dep 

Dep, that certainly confuses me!  The only issue we're discussed is battery charging, and you can use alkaline batteries if you don't want to deal with charging.  The MTH DCS remote requires alkaline batteries, so how is that better?

Dep,

I am also sorry you feel that way.  As I said in my original post exciting things are happening with Legacy and it starts with V1.52.  If you do change your mind purchase from a reputable Dealer that won't try to slide an older version off as new.  I have had my remote charging in the "990" Base and the charging is progressing as you would expect. EDIT:  My remote finished charging and the remote was warm as was the base.  As expected for charging Batteries.  It was nowhere near HOT.  I am satisfied.

Read the manual for LSU V2.0.  The ease of entry of engine, accessories, routes and switches will astound you. 

LCS is a new software package and exciting features beyond what is already available are incredible.  Being able to create your layout in segments (Maybe the term "Subdivisions" could be used based on my GRS experience) on a display and seeing the orientation of switches.  I forgot to mention the sensor track in Fastrack that can orient your trains as well as other event sequences.

I mentioned the WI-FI module and the SER module that are currently shipping are nice additions to the Legacy System.  Shipping shortly are the ASC2 and BPC2 to replace the aging ASC and BPC which are what I have and they work functionally with the Legacy System.

Needless to say it is great time to be jumping into Legacy as you can invest in the newest technology.

If I bought the Lionel unit, it would be a crapshoot at best. If the charging system doesn't work, I would be paying for a feature that I can't use. I use rechargeable batteries in my MTH unit and it functions just fine. No worry about overheating or possibly burning out the remote. The MTH unit will operate Lionel locos, just not some of the new gizmos like quilling whistle, which I don't own. I have to buy online as there are no Lionel dealers anywhere near where I live. Getting someone to check my unit before they ship it is iffy at best. Lionel not having fixed the charging problems after all these years is just plain amazing. No other company would get away with treating their customers this way. So as I said, thanks for the input, but I guess I will give Lionel Legacy a few MORE years to straighten things out. Unfortunately, being 65 and ailing, I haven't got a lot of years left.

It's nice that you can come up with an excuse to dislike the Legacy unit, but that's a pretty lame one.

You can use rechargeable batteries in the Legacy the same as you do in the MTH DCS Remote.  When they need recharging, take them out and recharge them, just like you do with the MTH DCS Remote.  Ignore the charging circuit, you're used to living without it in the feature limited DCS remote.

Surely, you can do better than that as an excuse, just admit you don't like Lionel and/or the Legacy system for some reason.  Would you like me to start listing flaws with the DCS system?  I have it, I use it, and I like it, but none of these products are perfect!

All the more reason to do it now and do what it takes. Chances are your new unit will be fine. If it needs some help, Lionel will fix it in a week.

Not to side track this thread more than it already has ,  but thx to my new Legacy locos, I now I own both DCS, Legacy and DCC (from the HO days), and all are imperfect for me. DCS and Legacy have great features but fall short for me in many ways. To keep me happy, I have concluded that I have to own both systems. For me, it's foolish to be brand loyal after working so hard for my $ and then pay almost 35-40% in taxes BEFORE I buy these expensive toys....

I will send my unit for a charge circuit update, but since I know rechargeable batteries well, I have no problems with this issue although I completely understand some one else having a major issue. I think the newer units have had this issue resolved? Any way, I have read that Lionel will take care of older units for no charge and that is acceptable to me...

Live Long and run your trains!

Think you are right. And to those who have unswerving loyalty to Lionel, I have a whole bunch of post-war Lionel. That was back when they actually put quality in before selling it to the public. I don't have unlimited funds, so buying something that may only PARTIALLY work just isn't in the cards. Call it a "crappy decision" if you want, but it's MY money being spent.

I think you need to think about why the forum is so popular. It's because problems get solved here. How many posts do read about people that don't have a problem? I wonder if that's because there to busy using the device instead of talking about it. Just to set the record straight I have 2 - 990s and they have been around for a couple of years. They work fine and they don't have the charger issue. I don't use the chargers, not because they don't work, but because it's easier to put the batteries in the house charger and use the fresh ones when needed. I am also like you I don't have an unlimited supply of cash laying around and I consider the money spent on the Legacy units money well spent. And by the way so does my 4 year old granddaughter. There are lots of people like me out there with no problems with them.

Ron

If you want a shop to test it before shipping it to you, call Nassau (A forum sponsor.) and ask them to do it, and they will.

I just run my Legacy with alkalines and turn off the charging completely.  In the future, I'll probably get some Lithium-ion rechargeables if they exist yet for AA and use an external charger.  For now the original Alkalines I put in are still at 50%.

I just put my own disposable batteries in my Legacy remote and tape the charger contacts.You would be surprised at how long they last and I use it 4-5 times a week.I love it and have never had any problems.I am 50 yrs old and this system will probably be working after I'm gone lol.Nick

Dep,

   Even with the small problems I have had with the Legacy Cab2 the system is incredible, especially with the ability to run as many as 99 low voltage FasTrack Command Control switches off track power, right from the Cab2 remote control.

As long as Lionel stands behind their Legacy Warranty and fixes the problems for zero cost, the Legacy purchase is well worth the money.  Remember also this QC problem is a world wide way of doing business today, it's not just a Lionel problem.  Lionel has developed a class A rework and repair Warranty program to combat the foreign world wide QC problem, I give them big time credit for doing so.

PCRR/Dave