UP 4014 Latest UP info added 1-31-14

Great News, hopefully be heading East soon, I can hardly wait to see her in Utah

 

Ed Dickens?  Any relationship to the author?

Meanwhile, 3985 is waiting for her 15 year inspection.....

Meh the 3985 is yesterdays news, the Big Boy has more all around awesomeness

It may be "yesterdays news" to YOU, but to some of us, not to mention hundreds of thousands of fans world wide, the loss of UP 3985 will NOT be forgotten.

And the Big Boy ain't nowhere near done, yet. 

 

Awesome happens when it moves under it's own power.

 

Rusty

WOW-CHRIS-THANK YOU-to see a real big boy on the move again-its a national treasure

that symbolizes everything great about the us.the sf f7 is fantastic too-what a sight

to see.thank you joe

Moving ever so slowly,  Looking forward to the videos of it moving to it's home base this winter.

move about a foot and lube something behind the right front cylinder.  what would that be?  has happened several times.

how much panel track did they put down.  looks like they may run out soon.  has moved about 50 feet, i think.

They're greasing the flanges, I believe Ed said there is a hump there in the track and the weight was coming off the front engine causing the wheel to raise/bind a bit. 

The parking lot at the Fairplex is really uneven and lumpy, can they do anything to shim under the panel track?

Look closely,,,,,they already are.

they put down a few hundred feet move the big boy and then move the track and use it over.

 

the big boy has officially left the rail giants museum never to return again.  this is very exciting to watch the big boy move slowly across the parking lot.  history in the making.

i am impressed by this:  that front loader gives a little yank and she rolls right along creating slack in the tow line.

UP just published this on Facebook "Union Pacific's Big Boy No. 4014 was successfully moved 1,200 feet this morning"

Pretty impressive, was not expecting that much

It was very impressive.  They took it slow and she is 1200' closer to life.

and they are not done for today yet!

 

The webcam is still up, there taking up the panel track from where they began and are repositioning it behind the 4014 to continue the move.  That will most likely continue tomorrow.

I was on the live webcam about an hour ago with my Legacy 4014 sitting on one of the rods. Had to leave to get something to eat, be back later and will post some pictures.

Been watching off/on since about 11:00 CST.  Very, very impressive and it certainly looks like a lot of work.  Great job to everyone involved!

 

Everyone have a nice evening.

 

Ken

hey hotwater  in the video it says and shows replaced new bolts on rear coupler in video the crack with a bolt in it means nothing looks to be on same part as coupler rig what gives cause you would know

Sorry, I have no idea exactly what you are referring to, especially since I have not been following this whole thing anyway. When 4014 finally gets on the move to Cheyenne, then it might become of interest for me.

Here's a few shots from this afternoon after it had been moved, and they were waiting for more track panels to be brought in.

 

I took my Legacy 4014 in for a few glamour shots!

 

Good one Dennis. Suddenly 1:48 seems small.

It's Doug, Elliot...but that's OK...I've been called much worse! It looked like Z scale when you stood back to look at the "big picture".

I'm sorry Doug, I've known your name for a while too.  I just don't use it often enough, and my brain gets cob webs. Got the first letter right.

They replaced all the bolts on the draft gear, I see the crack your referring to...they must not be concerned about it at this point.

Doug excellent photos...sure was nice to see her rolling.  It must have been something in person.  Thanks for the pics.

I saw you show up and place the scale big boy on the real one,  the guy from trains magazine thought what you did was pretty cool.  He talked about it of a while.  When you moved the scale unit to the front he said "I have to now and get another picture".

 

Thanks.

I knew you were there BigDodgeTrain, I just didnt know who you were. You shoulda said something to me. I'll be down at the club in SD next Thurs and Fri to run trains. If you're gonna be there, introduce yourself please

Some more pix for ya:

 

Wow more great photos, thank you.

Once they get to the Metrolink rail how do they transition from the temporary track to the mainline?

I believe they are going to actually cut metro links rails and tie in that way.

Maybe I missed it, but any idea when it will be moving up Cajon Pass?

 

Bob

Probably in December, since they will be spending some time at the Colton Diesel Shop to service the driver axle journal boxes (done while over a diesel pit), then put all the rods and valve gear linkage back on (so that all the mechanical lubricators will function while being towed). Having all the rods on, without the pistons being in place, will maintain rotational balance of all the running gear, but eliminate the "pumping of air & compression" of the pistons & valves.

oh I wasn't in Pomona, I'm watching it on line.

 

are you staying for the meeting thurs the 21st evening? I will be there then. might show up early. I'm one of the few that are doing some remodel work.

Ahhh OK, yeah I'll probably run trains, go eat, and then back for the meeting since I'm the newest member and have yet to attend a meeting.

I will see you then.  

Glad to see they chained it down, hate to see it roll away.  Or were they afraid someone would steal it?

 

 

I would have never thought we would see one of these restored.

 

Jamie

 

That'd be the first theory--the UP crew says it rolls real easily. Just tug on it with the tractor and 4014 does the rest

 

---PCJ

Oh yeah, you could see that...they give her a tug and roll she did. 

LET HIM HAVE IT!!! 3985 is a NATIONAL TREASURE as much as 4014.

That she is.

Getting it to roll is the easy part.  Stopping it from rolling is where it gets a little tricky.

 

Rusty

Guess 3985 is a "Challenged" locomotive?

 

Nwer challenge:  What is going to happen to the BB if they cannot successfully convert her to oil burning?

The Challenger was "successfully" converted to oil burning, so how difficult could it be to convert the 4014?  The UP Historical society have all the drawings for how the 4005 was converted to oil burning.

that is what machine shops are for.

I could use the cop-out and say that the excessive fuel consumption is what made the oil conversion a failure.

 

Instead, I'll just say I stand corrected.

 

Rusty

Now that this is settled,  How long do you think it will take to hop across the parking lot?  One, two weeks?

based on watching the two days live feed was available it will make to the metro link line in the time it takes to do it safely.

So why is "hope" involved?  I don't think the UP folks will simply "hope" it makes it across the parking lot.

I would plan on there being surprises, I would be surprised if there weren't any.

Yes

Great coverage and stills.  Thanks for sharing.

did anyone make it out there today?

Saw Doug's photo by the 4014 with his 4014....pretty cool.

 

 

I'm sure he meant "hop"

 

I'm sure that once it's converted to oil there will be no problems, as the UP seems to always send a diesel out with the steam engines to help with DB and fuel mileage.

 

 Not to mention the UP passenger set is only about 15 or so cars, plus a couple canteens.. probably what, 2000 tons or less?

Yeah I meant Hop, don't know where the hope came from, maybe hoping we would get back on track with this thread.

Actually it is a bit more difficult to fire the big machines, i.e. 3985, when they are NOT worked sufficiently hard enough to maintain a good exhaust with a resulting draft for the fire. Prior to 2011, many UP executive train sets behind either 844 or 3985 exceeded 15 passenger cars. The Denver Post Cheyenne Frontier Days Special has historically been over 20 plus cars, which makes the 844 AND MUed the DDA40X work to full throttle capacity in order to maintain the track speed and tight schedule. 

I noticed in the LA Times report they mentioned that the Big Boy is going to be pulled by the diesel numbered 4014 (I still think they should use the Heritage locos)

 

 

In the past  the UP renumbered the 844 to the 8444 to avoid the diesel that used the same number, are they going to have a problem these days having two engines with the same cab number?

Not for at least four more years. At that time, I would suspect that the diesel #4014 will be renumbered.

Based on seniority, the Big Boy will have no problem pulling rank.

I am sure when the time comes the diesel will be searching for a new number.

 

Also the 4014 was moved another 3-400ft since Thursday, so moving ever closer to the main.

When this starts moving on the mainline, do you think they will borrow a Hollywood smoke generator & put in the stack?

NO

Absolutely not...they have other things to worry about.

The 4014 was moved another 500' feet yesterday for those staying tuned.

Sorry if this has been asked/answered, I am under the impression it being towed tender first, will it be turned before it heads east on the mainline out of Colton?

Most likely, if it doesn't wind up being turned in the process of getting to Colton Diesel Shop. 

Has any video been posted of the 4014 moving on the panel track, or of moving the panels?

I'm not sure, but then I didn't "search" Youtube to check. The Trains Magazine website had/has a "live webcam" showing the movements done previously, but then it was sort of like watching paint dry anyway!

Somewhere I have pictures I took of the 844 being towed home from Sacramento in 1999. I suspect the 4014 will be looking about the same. I will post them if I can find them. Might help people to know what to expect, it's not going to be very photogenic except from a historical perspective.

If you look at the area on Google maps, there is room for them to curve to the west as they meet the Metrolink tracks. This would leave 4014 facing east (forward) toward Colton.

 

It is the worlds largest snail. But in UP's defense, they have to be meticulous in shimming the panel track across the uneven parking lot.

Has a Big Boy ever run on the Tehachapi loop?

No.

Sure has.

 

That area of the parking lot is pretty flat, as they get closer to the drag strip area it gets really bumpy, should make for some interesting videos.

Yeah it looks like it gets really bumpy out at that end of the lot...they are gonna have the work cut out for them down there...and a ton of shims.

 

 

I was wondering , when the Big Boys were sent to their various locations, did any (or all) of them go under power? For the diesels of the era it must have been a real chore to more that much dead weight.

 

Any pics of them being towed?

Well the 4014 was towed to Pomona.....go here and scroll down about half way or alittle more and there is a photo of it.  Just along for the ride over Cajon.

You understimate the diesels of the era.  A Big Boy dead-in-train is just another freight car (or several) as far as the locomotives are concerned.

 

Rusty

Just a photo of the work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somewhere, I believe, there are photo op pictures of the 4012 move on a PA viaduct

 

If you go to www.rrpicturearchives.net and type in  big boy move  in search, it will display several pictures of the 4012 move from Vermont.  Boston and Maine motive power repainted  in the Guilford colors are utilized

Here is a photo of the 4012 in tow on the Tunkhannock Viaduct.

And with Boston & Maine boxcars in tow, nice.

Yeah I love that photo.

That's a great photo. Being a "bridge troll" I love that viaduct, too.

The steam crew is making great progress as they are down by the beginning of the drag strip.  I am wondering how they will negotiate the Metrolink platform that is right there on the eastern side, seems like an awfully tight radius there either way.  It's going to be interesting to watch.

Another more complete video for the initial move, for some reason I can insert it here but just click on the link. 

 

 I'm guessing with Thanksgiving next week, they will rap up work this week and go home for the holiday?

I'm guessing so.  The move on to Metrolink is not going to be until December and they have the 4014 down by the beginning of the drag strip.  Here's a photo I found.

 

 

They will go home for Thanksgiving, a well deserved rest.  They have been working 7 days a week for many weeks.  They are a great group to work with.  Upon their return they will continue with the movement and prep of 4014 to get onto the MetroLink track.

I hope they have good security for the locomotive over the holiday.

Yes they have very good security.  In addition to Fairplex security, they have the Union Pacific Police with the 4014 at all times.  There is also a fence around it. 

chain in the lower right corner is cool!

That's good to hear, being at the north end of the complex alone, the security is definitely needed.

Yeah that and the wedges will hold him still.

Afraid they might come back in the morning, find the wheels gone and the loco sitting on concrete blocks?

 

Rusty

It does the quarter mile in 3.5 DAYS.

The 4014 is now at the northern most end of the fairgrounds folks.

The 4014 is being positioned to be ready for the move on to Metrolink which is expected to be in December.

 

 

Looks like some O-36 curves. 

A scenario such as this would make for an interesting diorama for someone that primarily does modern modeling but needed a good excuse to have their favorite old steam engine sitting on the layout somewhere. Or even someone doing the 50's or 60's having an engine installed in a park or something.

When #4012 came to Scranton to live, everyone was very concerned with her weight on the track and several small bridges in route.  But she came without much problems and sits near the Ticket building to Steamtown.  Quite the machine.  They are worth the effort to see one up close and personal.  

 

Glenn

Indeed they are.  I saw the 4014 out in Pomona years back never thinking it would be restored...and here we are.  Amazing.

The 4014 has completed it's journey across the parking lot and is now by the fence that separates the fair grounds from Metro links tracks.  He is now sitting at the end of this panel track by the bushes.

 

Is there route info on the trip from the Metrolink tracks (north of the I-10) to the UP tracks (just south of the I-10.) It looks to me like they will have to go to the interchange next to the BNSF yards in San Berdoo, then turn and go south and then west to get to the UP yard in Colton.

I can just imaging the look on a few commuters faces as the 4014 passes through their stations. Then again when it comes through Utah it will be running parallel to our commuter rail track as well. It will be a sight

Wonder if it can get a 6-sec quarter mile.

 

LOL..I don't know...wonder if you can fire that baby on Nitro-methane. 

CWEX: sure if they have lots and lots of Castrol castor oil.

LOL...

Another brief article about the move.

A nice article.  They really got the 4014 in to position quickly down at the north end of the fair grounds.  Looks like December 22 is the date for the move on to Metro link.

I guess I know where I'm going to be on 12/22.

For the $$$$ to get 4014 to METROLink line, UP could have the 3985 running and have her 15 year inspection.  An out side the UP firm is handling the move, and the restore on the BB.  Somebody has stated an another threat a third party is paying for all this.  I wonder who has the deep pockets to do this if the story is true?

The UP is handling the move.  If someone else is in fact paying the bills then so be it.  As for the 3985....time will tell the story.

I can't possibly know. However, If I were to get good odds. I would bet a large sum on Jay Leno.

i think it would be great if the union pacific would get their one steam engine that they never retired to pull it back. wouldn't the 844 pulling it back be a really nice sight?

The UP Steam Crew has completed all of the work needed to get the 4014 ready to move and all of the work to move the 4014 to its current position.  The UP Steam Crew will continure to move the engine and will complete all of the work to restore the 4014.  

In the winter???   You must be dreaming.

I/m pretty sure that an outside specialized contractor will be doing, at the very least, the complete boiler overhaul.

I believe I read on this forum, or possibly T.O. that the bigboy was going to winter at the Colton shops for some preliminary work and wouldn't be headed east across the Cajon until spring (when the weather is more favorable.)

The 4014 will get to Cheyenne when it gets there...no need to rush this.  Let em' get it there safely and we can all enjoy the journey.

Don't think so. They WILL need to take 4014 to the Colton Diesel Shop in order to put he over a pit and service the driver axle roller bearings. After that, 4014 will proceed north to Ogden, then east to Cheyenne, probably arrivin Cheyenne in late January or early February.

The axle roller bearings have already been drained, flushed, and refilled wtih new oil at the RailGiants Museum.

It is my understanding, based on everything that has been posted on TO and other sites, that in order to service the driver axle roller bearings, SAFELY, the locomotive should be over a pit. All the other roller bearings on the trailing truck, and tender, are external and have indeed already been serviced while 4014 was still at the museum site.

The axle roller bearings were serviced when 4014 was put onto the panel track.  

I just don't see how they could do a proper job of servicing the driver bearings on panel track.  Maybe a "good enough" job to move it slowly a few miles to a pit where they can do a proper job, but more than that?  How could there be enough room to climb through the frame and service them for the move to Wyoming?

They need to drop the drivers to get to them, I don't see how they could access them properly in Pomona.  I know they serviced the tender,trailing truck and engine truck out there already.  I'm sure either way we'll find out what they are going to service soon enough.

No they don't. I have never seen a roller bearing equipped steam locomotive that requires the "dropping of drivers" simply to service the inside roller bearing boxes.

Does it matter where it is done, if it is done, or about to be done, as long as it is done before the big haul, is all that probably matters to those in control of the work.

My mistake, I thought I heard Ed say something in one of the videos they have put out.  Thanks for clarifying that.

Nope it doesn't matter.

one of the official UP videos said they will be doing anything they could not get to at Pomona at Colton.

Sometimes it does matter to the poor person that is actually doing the work, while laying on his back on the ground/ties! Servicing driver axle bearings, no matter whether roller or plain bearings, is always best accomplished over a pit.

I'll second what Hot Water says.  Crawling on the ground under a locomotive is no fun at all...

The earlier discussion wasn't debating about the poor individual having to do the task but if it had been done or not and for whatever reason a few people seemed quite concerned about it, not sure why? The short distance it has to go is not likely to result in any further deterioration of the bearings before the oil is changed before its longer haul.

 

While I am here I am intrigued to know who the so called third party is that seems to be behind the restoration, or is this a case of smoke and mirrors to deflect the real identity?

Just to be clear on the subject, the bearings have been drained and flushed at the RailGiants Museum before the move.  They will again be drained and flushed at Colton yard, and then several move time during the "long haul".  I do agree that it was not comfortable for the UP Steam Crew to perform this task without a pit.  But they did it because it needed to be done before 4014 moved across the parking lot. 

 

Why "drained & flushed several more times" during the trip to Cheyenne? Even during the regular service days, the roller bearings were NOT "drained & flushed" all that often, and they were under far greater loads back then. I bet the steam crew doesn't "drain & flush" the roller bearings on 844 during an entire multi-week/month trip.

Well if they've been serviced already than hey that's great....I do remember that they had several drums out there. 

I spoke to some Cheyenne visitors to our Rocky Mountain Toy Train Show yesterday.

It looks like 4014 will sit next to the light rail track until late December. Apparently they have to wait for the SD40 that they traded to the museum to come out of the paint shop before they cut into the light rail line. They don't want to cut into the light rail line twice.

Latest video from the UP.

 

A nice photo I came across....

 

 

any word?

 

is this the weekend of the move to live metro tracks?

That's been the word...Sunday the 22nd

The latest info I saw posted on Train Orders, apparently from the Trains Magazine NewsWire was, not until late January.

I can confirm that as I just read it on the news wire.

Yeah late January is the time frame.

Here's the latest UP video on the 4014.

 

Guess who arrived in Pomona today?

 

that's right the UP steam team is back in Pomona according to trains magazine.

 

 

Back in the roundhouse, 3985 is waitng for them!

Yawn...

But does anyone have the word on when the move onto the Metrolink tracks will be? Last word was Dec 22nd which came and went. After all the posts here and other places, things have been strangely silent. Since the trade-out diesel and caboose are here, the move could be very soon.

Just posted on TrainOrders:

"LA METRO (NOT Metrolink) has just announced that UP 4014 will be moved from the LA Fairgrounds via Metrolink on Sunday January 26th! The move will be from the LA Fairgrounds to at least the Covina Metrolink station for an official public/media viewing event"  Starting time not given.

 

Every railfan (and foamer) within 500 miles is going to converge on Pomona.

 

 

Excellent, thank you for the information.  This will be a BIG event for sure.

from UP

 

some of us are not old enough to have seen steam on the rails and are excited.

Well, it still really isn't "steam on the rails" YET!!!

Like ED Dickens said the rebirth of the big boy is like a zoo resurrecting the T Rex.  People will follow this from all over the world to see the biggest steam engine ever made.

Too bad Steve Lee didn't do this instead of 3985.  that engine is so of anti climatic now with a big boy on the horizion.

 

Steve Lee was asked that very question.  His answer is that a BB could only operate only on trackage in WY and UT.  That was then.  But 3985 can go to a lot more places than a BB.

 

BTW, does anybody know where a BB can go on the UP today under steam?

bigdodgetrain, Thanks for posting the video!!!!

According to Metrolink's Facebook page, 4014 will be stopped at the Covina Metrolink station for public viewing between 7:00am and 8:00am on January 26th. I'm planning to drive along Arrow Highway on the way home from the club the night before to see what they're up to.

I keep on hearing people saying the bigboy was the biggest steam loco ever made.at 132..?? its the heaviest for sure..the allegheny had the most HP..As for length is PRR S1 at 140 feet and with 84"big driving wheels..

 

The 4014 can go anywhere the 844 can go...the limiting factor being the boiler swing.  The tender is more of a limiting factor than the engine is.

The Allegheny had 7000 boiler hp but sorry not the tractive effort.  That is what pulls trains not boiler hp.  The dm& ir had 140,000 lbs pulling power and big boy had 135,000 but the Allegheny had a little over 100,000 and was so hard on track it went a wooping 20 mph to keep track damage to a minimum.  The c&0 also sued lima for lying about weight on drivers.  It was not a success.  It is not even a good comparison for the big boy.  Lets compare successful engines.  As Gene Huddleston say in his book on the 2-6-6-6 after all the information was out "you decide if the c&0 got its moneys worth out of the engine.   Their 2-10-4 was their superior engine and it is compared in the same book. 

There were no other 4-8-8-4 engines made so big boy wins there.

Meh........ my money would be on a y6b with its modest 170,000lbs of tractive effort.... but thats for another thread.

You got that right!

It only gets to 163,000 and that is the simple mode and could not supply enough steam to go very fast.  Big boy is the only  4-8-8-4 and that is the biggest wheel arrangement of a steamer that could operate at 70 mph y6b maybe but in compound mode only and then tractive effort is way down.

Only?...Mmmhmm. 

 

UP's 4-8-8-4's would produce higher speeds, and could develop higher HP at higher speeds but they didn't have the starting drawbar pull of a 2100. The thing to remember is that these Y's had boilers the size of a big 4-8-4, and with compound operation it allowed them to squeeze that kind of performance out of it.  The 4000's had a humongous boiler with an appetite to match.  The higher speed is great but you need to start the train first.

  The real point is that each was designed to do a specific job for it's respective road and both performed admirably in that capacity.