I'm beginning to think the Lionel 2024 is a "lost" engine - I can't find any parts info anywhere, including Olsen's, Train Tender, and a couple of other places. Does anyone have an exploded view plus parts list?

Original Post

Just use the generic ALCO's information.
It will be close. But Lionel made a lot of modifications to those ALCO's that aren't all well documented.
If you need help, just ask here.

The 2024 Alco is a one year only item, from 1969.
Be aware that in the early 1970's MPC must have had a large quantity of left over shells because they had a blowout sale on them, along with a few others.
So it is common to find 2024 Alco bodes mounted on older chassis with different construction.

C.W. Burfle

What I'm specifically after is the part number for a grooved drive wheel, non-geared wheel. This engine has only one traction tire, and it can barely pull itself out of bed in the morning, let alone a consist of 5 cars. Train Tender has a geared, grooved MPC era wheel, but I would like to stick closer to an original look, and of course, I'm not at all certain it would fit.

Need a part number for the grooved wheel that is on there - one more should do the trick.

222-107 is a grooved wheel, but the parts list does not say whether it is geared or non-geared.
I do not see it on Jeff's list.
Sometimes Jeff has parts in quantities that are too small to put on his list.
I suggest writing him describing what you want to do, and that you are looking for a postwar non-geared grooved wheel. He might have one, or might be able to provide a part number.

I found the above part number in the 634 parts list. The 634 has a very similar motor to the late ALCO's.

C.W. Burfle

That was a great suggestion, but as you mentioned, the 222-107 is another "phantom" part! I couldn't find it on ebay or amazon (0 hits for both) - tried Henning's but there site is nearly impossible to find a specific part on (maybe it's just me?) 

I probably should have put all this info in my first post - I did contact Jeff and the only thing he has is a geared wheel he said was from the MPC era - I may end up trying just that on my next order, however color match will be wrong and one gear hooked to nothing will look pretty strange - still, the traction will be there and this is a toy to me, not a collector's item.

I was hoping someone might have a diagram and parts list from a Lionel Service Manual??? Everything I've looked at skips that number. I would like to confirm the correct number for the wheel.

In the meantime, I think I'll look for a "parts only" unit on ebay.

Thanks CW

And BTW, the engine does appear to be all original, at least what I can tell from Tandem-Associates pics & description - they said it has two powered axles, but mine has just one. Tandem also said just one traction tire which is what mine has.

 

 

There are a lot of parts that just aren't available.
You are looking for a part that was last used in 1969, that's almost fifty years ago.

I've handled a number of 2024's that I felt were factory original. They had one driven axle.
Probably only one traction tire, but I would have to check.

C.W. Burfle

What is your engine doing?
I assume the driven wheels must be slipping / skipping.

If so, have you tried:

replace the traction tire with a clean, fresh one.

add weight to the locomotive.

The Power shell on a 2041 normally has a weight riveted to the back of the shell, using the porthole in the door for the rivet. (The dummies do not have this weight, nor do the shells that were sold by MPC).
I don't recall whether the 2024 locos had the weights.
 

C.W. Burfle
C W Burfle posted:

What is your engine doing?
I assume the driven wheels must be slipping / skipping. That's it exactly!

If so, have you tried:

replace the traction tire with a clean, fresh one. Yep, actually got a tiny bit worse with a fresh one, so I turned over the old one for best results

add weight to the locomotive. Not yet

The Power shell on a 2041 normally has a weight riveted to the back of the shell, using the porthole in the door for the rivet. (The dummies do not have this weight, nor do the shells that were sold by MPC).
I don't recall whether the 2024 locos had the weights. No weights on mine, porthole in back door looks completely unscathed by any previous rivets  I think between some extra weight and an extra traction tire wheel (assuming I can find one), this engine's traction will improve dramatically. Some other minor issues such as worm gear alignment, slop in the bottom armature bearing, but nothing that would directly affect traction.
 

 

The 222-107 is a non-gear grooved wheel for the traction tire, one per loco on the 2-axle powered 2024(222-101 type motor except double wound field instead of single). The non-grooved non-gear wheel is the 2243-33, and the two geared wheels are 600-137.

The 634 has only one geared axle, with a 222-107 non-gear grooved wheel for the traction tire and three non-grooved non-gear wheels - 2243-33 - two of them with spacers behind them to take up the space on the axle normally occupied by the depth of the gear surface.

Rob

ADCX Rob posted:

The 222-107 is a non-gear grooved wheel for the traction tire, one per loco on the 2-axle powered 2024 My 2024 has a single axle powered motor. I don't know ANY of the part numbers because I can't find any documentation for the 2024 - at all!

(222-101 type motor except double wound field instead of single). Again, no idea on part#, however the motor in my 2024 does indeed have a double wound field, and a 2 pos. e-unit.

The non-grooved non-gear wheel is the 2243-33, and the two geared wheels are 600-137. There are NO geared wheels on mine, just 4 plain wheels, one with a tire groove.

The 634 has only one geared axle, with a 222-107 non-gear grooved wheel for the traction tire and three non-grooved non-gear wheels - 2243-33 - two of them with spacers behind them to take up the space on the axle normally occupied by the depth of the gear surface. My 2024 has two spacers to take up the space on the axle normally occupied by the depth of the gear surface.

A pic is worth 20 or 30 words, as they say... IMG_8293

I know a few people (including Greensberg) have said when looking up this engine "(see 202*)". Well, the 202 (per tandem-associates) had magne-traction, so that's a non-starter, as this one doesn't. And Greensberg's reference material under 200 series ALCOs shows motors with bearing plates and bearing balls, neither of which are on my motor. Admittedly, Greensberg also states there were many variations on motors , so.....

IMG_8297

I really would like to obtain the part number for the grooved plain wheel (222-107 you say?), and then actually find the part for sale - no luck so far. The same issue exists on my 1055 which has dual powered axles, no magne-traction and no traction tire, grooved wheels! Honestly, what were they thinking on these two engines? Had to be cost cutting!!!!!

 

 

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Johnsgg1 posted:

I just looked.  I have that exact motor frame in a parts bin.  Dirty but should clean up.  I'll pull the grooved wheel and send it off to you.  Email me.

John, that is awesome! Thank you! You are the second person to do so, “charlies” is also sending one. So if you choose to hang on to it, I will certainly understand, since it kind of makes the motor a wee bit useless, and I don't want to be taking advantage of anyone.

That said, I will be looking for three total, I need the extra two to add to my Texas Special as it suffers a similar engineering design weakness.

Email on the way

Johnsgg1 posted:

While not wheel related that field winding looks pretty bad.  Looks burnt and maybe hand wound?

Yeah, most of the "burned" area is just shadowing - the enamel on the wire is actually perfect when viewed under normal lighting. And yes, the winding job is a bit scraggly! It's actually the first double wound field I have seen that did NOT use the red/green enamel on the wire, it is just straight copper colored under normal lighting.

This engine was the very last design Lionel made in 69, if you can believe what is written by knowledgeable sources, so they were probably well into the "winding down/cost cutting" mode and were doing a few things differently.

Yeah, most of the "burned" area is just shadowing - the enamel on the wire is actually perfect when viewed under normal lighting. And yes, the winding job is a bit scraggly! It's actually the first double wound field I have seen that did NOT use the red/green enamel on the wire, it is just straight copper colored under normal lighting.

I have a few late motors with fields wound that way.
Some of them have the holes for the brush plate screws tapped metric.
Also, most of them have a plastic screw to hold down the solder lug for the second field winding.

 

C.W. Burfle
Johnsgg1 posted:

While not wheel related that field winding looks pretty bad.  Looks burnt and maybe hand wound?

That's pretty much how the double wound fields look, it looks like a lighting issue, not burned.

C W Burfle posted:

Rob:

Do you know the part number of the postwar diesel wheel with a traction tire groove?
I am just curious.

That wheel was introduced with the 222 diesel, and is 222-107.

GeoPeg posted:
A pic is worth 20 or 30 words, as they say...

That truck has all of the 634 features - one geared axle, with a 222-107 non-gear grooved wheel for the traction tire and three non-grooved non-gear wheels #2243-33... two with spacers, making it a 221-101 truck.

GeoPeg posted:

The same issue exists on my 10055 which has dual powered axles, no magne-traction and no traction tire, grooved wheels! Honestly, what were they thinking on these two engines? Had to be cost cutting!!!!!

 The Alco FA was cheapened immensely in many ways after 1954 with a design that would allow all of the top features on some models as well as severely  stripped versions for price points as mass merchandising came into the norm.  The only one stripped down more than the 2024 was probably the 1066 UP.

If your 1055 has dual powered axles, no magne-traction and no traction tire, but grooved wheels, then you can add the 222-108 tires to the wheels.

Rob

Not to totally shift gears, but can anyone recommend a quick and dirty method for taking the slack out of the bottom armature bearing, without replacing the bearing? I've been thinking about a clinching tool to GENTLY squish the bearing together a bit and make things tighter, bit not clear on which tool might work. There's a fair amount of movement in the armature shaft within that bearing. May need to start a new thread?

 

franktrain posted:

OGR forum at its best! Its been great following this one and pictures really help understand the problem.

Thanks to everyone,

franktrain

IMG_4803

Nice looking roster you got there, Frank! Did you ever get any touch up paint for any of those? Where, if I may ask?

Do you agree the 2024 lacks traction? The 225s both have dual axle magne-traction?

That wheel was introduced with the 222 diesel, and is 222-107.

I meant the geared wheel with a groove for the traction tire.

I looked at a few tire traction locomotives and extra motor truck assemblies.
None of them had a geared wheel with a tire. The tires were all on the non-geared wheel.
Maybe they didn't make a  Postwar geared wheel with a groove.

C.W. Burfle
ADCX Rob posted:
Johnsgg1 posted:

While not wheel related that field winding looks pretty bad.  Looks burnt and maybe hand wound?

That's pretty much how the double wound fields look, it looks like a lighting issue, not burned.

C W Burfle posted:

Rob:

Do you know the part number of the postwar diesel wheel with a traction tire groove?
I am just curious.

That wheel was introduced with the 222 diesel, and is 222-107.

GeoPeg posted:
A pic is worth 20 or 30 words, as they say...

That truck has all of the 634 features - one geared axle, with a 222-107 non-gear grooved wheel for the traction tire and three non-grooved non-gear wheels #2243-33... two with spacers, making it a 221-101 truck. It also has the same lack of traction, per Tandem-Associates

GeoPeg posted:

The same issue exists on my 1055 which has dual powered axles, no magne-traction and no traction tire, grooved wheels! Honestly, what were they thinking on these two engines? Had to be cost cutting!!!!!

 The Alco FA was cheapened immensely in many ways after 1954 with a design that would allow all of the top features on some models as well as severely  stripped versions for price points as mass merchandising came into the norm.  The only one stripped down more than the 2024 was probably the 1066 UP.

If you 1055 has dual powered axles, no magne-traction and no traction tire, but grooved wheels, then you can add the 222-108 tires to the wheels.

I wish it were that easyIMG_8300

 

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GeoPeg posted:
franktrain posted:

OGR forum at its best!

Nice looking roster you got there, Frank! Did you ever get any touch up paint for any of those? Where, if I may ask?

Do you agree the 2024 lacks traction? The 225s both have dual axle magne-traction?

I bought my 2024 from eBay a while back and it came with two axle magna traction so I was not familiar with the traction tire version. I gonna keep a look out for that version to add to my collection. I was trying to complete the set that it came in which had just four light weight cars.

IMG_5742

Here's a 225 that I modified with a motor from a Dash 8 engine a real stump puller. 

franktrain

IMG_3360

franktrain

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GeoPeg posted:

I wish it were that easyIMG_8300

 

Hmm...  no, there are no grooves in those wheels - very clear in picture - I'm not sure where you are seeing grooved wheels unless I'm misunderstanding some sentence syntax above.

However, I have stretched tires over the wheels on Williams diesels which were made after they discontinued magnetraction but before they went with tire traction. It works quite well with clean wheels and just the tiniest drop of CA to hold the tire on.

Rob

franktrain posted:
GeoPeg posted:
franktrain posted:

OGR forum at its best!

Nice looking roster you got there, Frank! Did you ever get any touch up paint for any of those? Where, if I may ask?

Do you agree the 2024 lacks traction? The 225s both have dual axle magne-traction?

I bought my 2024 from eBay a while back and it came with two axle magna traction so I was not familiar with the traction tire version. I gonna keep a look out for that version to add to my collection. I was trying to complete the set that it came in which had just four light weight cars.

Here's a 225 that I modified with a motor from a Dash 8 engine a real stump puller. 

franktrain

IMG_3360

Not familiar with Dash 8 - can motor?

ADCX Rob posted:
GeoPeg posted:

I wish it were that easyIMG_8300

 

Hmm...  no, there are no grooves in those wheels - very clear in picture - I'm not sure where you are seeing grooved wheels unless I'm misunderstanding some sentence syntax above. My wife will tell you I'm a syntax mangler! The answer is I am NOT seeing any grooved wheels, I am WISHING this engine had them! And if I can find some 222-107 wheels, they are going on here!

However, I have stretched tires over the wheels on Williams diesels which were made after they discontinued magnetraction but before they went with tire traction. It works quite well with clean wheels and just the tiniest drop of CA to hold the tire on. Plan B.....

 

 

IMG_3360

Not familiar with Dash 8 - can motor?

The Dash 8 40b was a dual pullmor motor(not can) engine made by Lionel during the LTI period. This motor has four wheel drive and two traction tires and die cast side frames. So it has some good weight.

franktrain

franktrain

The same issue exists on my 1055 which has dual powered axles, no magne-traction and no traction tire, grooved wheels! Honestly, what were they thinking on these two engines? Had to be cost cutting!!!!!

The 1055 was sold in rock bottom priced sets that weren't even cataloged. There are several other low end ALCO's that followed, also in low end sets. I guess they were the "scouts" of the diesel line. Better quality ALCO's were generally in the catalogs.

C.W. Burfle
C W Burfle posted:

The same issue exists on my 1055 which has dual powered axles, no magne-traction and no traction tire, grooved wheels! Honestly, what were they thinking on these two engines? Had to be cost cutting!!!!!

The 1055 was sold in rock bottom priced sets that weren't even cataloged. There are several other low end ALCO's that followed, also in low end sets. I guess they were the "scouts" of the diesel line. Better quality ALCO's were generally in the catalogs.

The reason I am very interested in improving my 1055 is that it has the tightest drive train I have ever seen on a Lionel diesel - Almost NO slop in the gears or the bearings. I intend to keep it that way, plus add some traction to it for a great little puller/pusher.

OK, quiz time - what's the difference between these wheels?

IMG_8320_crop

The two on the right are traction tire wheels, courtesy of two very generous lads on this forum - thank you again!! The one on the left is a plain wheel, straight out of Jeff Kane's parts bins, and appears to be totally unused (no spline marks inside the hole.) So what's with the "spokes" on the two right wheels?

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