These pictures show New Haven Railroad’s Budd RDC #32, as photographed at the Danbury Railway Museum in 2017, and my Sunset/3rd Rail model of RDC #21. The New Haven acquired 40 RDCs in 1952 and ‘53 and referred to them as “Shoreliners.” They were powered by two 275 HP General Motors diesel engines mounted below the floor and could accommodate 89 passengers. At the time, the New Haven was the country’s largest user of RDCs, running them mostly on branch lines and in commuter service. Many of these cars lasted until the New Haven was absorbed into the Penn Central in 1969.

MELGAR

MELGAR_NHRR_RDC32_DRM_ 006MELGAR_NHRR_BUDD_RDC_21_03

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briansilvermustang posted:

Melgar,  where did you get the New Haven car that is on your layout, that is a very nice looking car...

Thanks Brian,

It is a beautiful scale model made by 3rd Rail Division of Sunset Models (http://www.3rdrail.com/). They made models of the RDC-1 and RDC-2 about two years ago. According to the website, some models are still available.

MELGAR

I am enjoying this thread ... it even reminds me sometimes of photos I forgot I had.

The below are three photos of a NH excursion train that ran into my town of Bristol, RI in 1966.  The yellow sign on the front of the first Budd car says "Bristol Boat Train".

This first photo shows the excursion stopping for a photo opp in Barrington, Rhode Island.  This bridge spans the Barrington River.

 PWB-BuddCarsBarrington

The next two photos show the consist at the end of the line in Bristol, RI.  The head of Bristol Harbor can be seen behind and to the left of the Budd Cars.

PWB-BuddCarsBristolPWB-BuddCarsBristol2

As many of you know, the white flags on the front car indicate that it's a "Special", i.e., an unscheduled run.

Keep 'em coming,

Steven J. Serenska

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Well, I'm still rummaging around my hard drive and I came up with two more photos of NH Budd cars.  Like the photos above, these were also taken on the Providence, Warren & Bristol RR right of way.

I could write about the PWBRR all day long, but I'll keep my comments brief.  A few interesting things about the PWBRR was that it was one of the first lines on which overhead electrification was deployed.  As part of this process, the New Haven dug a 1-mile long tunnel underneath the city of Providence, RI to enable the trains to pass under "College Hill" in Providence.

The first photo below shows another railfan excusion with a NH Budd car either emerging from or going in to the tunnel.  The photo is undated, but it must again be during the 1960s.  I read somewhere that these excursions were run about twice a year around this time.

[Sorry; image removed to avoid potential copyright issues.  Contact me offline if you'd like a private copy.]

The next photo shows another excursion from around the same time.  The bridge in the photo is over the Seekonk River just to the east of Providence, RI.  You can see the catenary, formerly used for the electrified system over the RDCs.

[Sorry; image removed to avoid potential copyright issues.  Contact me offline if you'd like a private copy.]

The Old Colony RR leased the PWBRR for 99 years beginning in 1891.  In 1893, the New Haven leased the entire Old Colony system, including the PWBRR, for 99 years.

Passenger service ended to Bristol, RI as of the 1938 hurricane.  Freight service ended to Bristol in 1973.  The entire line was abandoned in 1983 and is now a bike path.  Many vestiges of the railroad can still be seen.

Steven J. Serenska

briansilvermustang posted:

 The last and most unique of the F units, the FL9 was a custom fit for the unique commuter services in and out of Grand Central Terminal. Able to operate as a conventional diesel electric or pick up electricity from a third rail, the locomotives could operate safely in and out of the long tunnel into New York. 

The FL9 had a unique 5 axle design and were longer than the typical F. They marked the end of F unit production in 1960 and were among the last in regular service in the US, securing their place in history and preservation.

Love the photos!

owner, operator of The Cuyahoga Valley Short Line Railroad,

TTOS#8836

During the 1950s, the New Haven sought to cut costs by reducing electric operations in the electrified zone between New Haven and New York City. Although diesels could be used elsewhere, electric operation was required in the Park Avenue Tunnels leading to Grand Central Terminal. Therefore, the dual-power FL-9 locomotive (electric and diesel-electric), which could operate as a conventional diesel-electric or as a straight electric on the 650 volt DC third-rail in the tunnels, was designed specifically for the New Haven by EMD. EMD lengthened the FP-9 locomotive by four feet and substituted a 3-axle Flexicoil rear truck to meet axle load restrictions on the Park Avenue Viaduct leading to the tunnels. The first thirty FL-9s were delivered to the New Haven in 1957 with 1750 HP EMD 567 diesel engines. Thirty additional were delivered in 1960 with 1800 HP. They lasted to the end of the New Haven.

In 2017, four FL-9s remain parked in the Metro-North Lamberton Street Yard in New Haven.

Photo shows my Sunset/3rd Rail model of New Haven EMD FL-9 #2043.

MELGAR

MELGAR_NEW_HAVEN_3RD_RAIL_EMD_FL9_CROP

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For anyone interested, here is a pre-production image of the 3rd Rail FL9s from way back when we worked on these.  2012 I think?  Maybe early 2013.  I'll have to go back and look!  It was a fun project.  The New Haven version was especially satisfying as we got an actual color sample of the original correct color for Phase II FL9s which as a shade different than the Phase I FL9s.  That doesn't happen often in the modeling work. 

IMG_0461

Jonathan

 

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GG1 4877 posted:

For anyone interested, here is a pre-production image of the 3rd Rail FL9s from way back when we worked on these.  2012 I think?  Maybe early 2013.  I'll have to go back and look!  It was a fun project.  The New Haven version was especially satisfying as we got an actual color sample of the original correct color for Phase II FL9s which as a shade different than the Phase I FL9s.  That doesn't happen often in the modeling work. 

IMG_0461

FL-9s were made only for the New Haven Railroad and only in the McGinnis paint scheme. All the rest of these liveries were applied to ex-New Haven locomotives by their subsequent owners.

MELGAR

MELGAR posted:
GG1 4877 posted:

For anyone interested, here is a pre-production image of the 3rd Rail FL9s from way back when we worked on these.  2012 I think?  Maybe early 2013.  I'll have to go back and look!  It was a fun project.  The New Haven version was especially satisfying as we got an actual color sample of the original correct color for Phase II FL9s which as a shade different than the Phase I FL9s.  That doesn't happen often in the modeling work. 

IMG_0461

FL-9s were made only for the New Haven Railroad and only in the McGinnis paint scheme. All the rest of these liveries were applied to ex-New Haven locomotives by their subsequent owners.

MELGAR

Completely understand that.  However, New Haven had two variations on the FL9 known as Phase I and Phase II based on order dates.  There were 30 of each (2000-2029 in 1956 and 1957 and 2030-2059 in 1960) for a total of 60 units.  When Penn Central assumed control in 1968 they were simply renumbered into the 5000 series, retaining their last two digits.  Amtrak purchased 12 from Conrail and Maine Eastern had two that were purchased from Amtrak.  The balance went to MTA and 10 to CDOT.  Two of MTA's were painted in a "heritage" scheme for New York Central.  The only paint schemes not done were Penn Central and Conrail Blue/Yellow.  I always found that attractive personally even if the yellow faded to white fairly quickly.

The 3rd Rail model represents, the Phase II variation (or the later order) of that locomotive regardless of original ownership.  Outside of the Overland brass 2 rail model, these are the only FL9s ever done in O scale.

Jonathan

 

GG1 4877 posted:  The only paint schemes not done were Penn Central and Conrail Blue/Yellow.  I always found that attractive personally even if the yellow faded to white fairly quickly.

 

Jonathan,

Was the blue/yellow variation offered and not enough reservations received, or was it just not an option?

--

Thanks, Bob

Two New Haven FL-9 locomotives at Danbury (CT) Railway Museum. The 2006 is in the original McGinnis paint scheme. The 2013 has been repainted in New York Central lightning stripes although the Central never owned an FL-9.

MELGAR

MELGAR_NHRR_FL9_2006_DRM_2MELGAR_NHRR_FL9_2013_DRM

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Serenska posted:

Well, I'm still rummaging around my hard drive and I came up with two more photos of NH Budd cars.  Like the photos above, these were also taken on the Providence, Warren & Bristol RR right of way.

I could write about the PWBRR all day long, but I'll keep my comments brief.  A few interesting things about the PWBRR was that it was one of the first lines on which overhead electrification was deployed.  As part of this process, the New Haven dug a 1-mile long tunnel underneath the city of Providence, RI to enable the trains to pass under "College Hill" in Providence.

The first photo below shows another railfan excusion with a NH Budd car either emerging from or going in to the tunnel.  The photo is undated, but it must again be during the 1960s.  I read somewhere that these excursions were run about twice a year around this time.

PWB_NH_RDC

The next photo shows another excursion from around the same time.  The bridge in the photo is over the Seekonk River just to the east of Providence, RI.  You can see the catenary, formerly used for the electrified system over the RDCs.

PBWBuddCars

The Old Colony RR leased the PWBRR for 99 years beginning in 1891.  In 1893, the New Haven leased the entire Old Colony system, including the PWBRR, for 99 years.

Passenger service ended to Bristol, RI as of the 1938 hurricane.  Freight service ended to Bristol in 1973.  The entire line was abandoned in 1983 and is now a bike path.  Many vestiges of the railroad can still be seen.

Steven J. Serenska

One of the apartments I lived in in college was located above the portal of the other end of this tunnel on Benifit Street in Providence. At that time the tracks were not in use and a door welded over the end but I have walked through it a few times. The lift bridge over the Seeconk still exists but is locked in the up position. I have ridden the bike path many times. Thank you for posting the pics. 

Silver Lake posted:

One of the apartments I lived in in college was located above the portal of the other end of this tunnel on Benifit Street in Providence. At that time the tracks were not in use and a door welded over the end but I have walked through it a few times. The lift bridge over the Seeconk still exists but is locked in the up position. I have ridden the bike path many times. Thank you for posting the pics. 

I'm glad you enjoyed them.  Here are another few photos of "your end" of the tunnel.

The first shows the welded door.  This was probably taken about 20 years ago and it's possible that your apartment might be among the buildings.  For everyone else, the stone block abutment to the right of the traffic light at the end of the parking lot are where the trains came out of the tunnel.  The darker green portion of the wall is the steel door they welded over the opening:

west end - East Side RR tunnel [Large)

Here is a photo from the 1950s of a railfan special exiting the tunnel via the same portal shown above. In this vintage picture, you can see that a viaduct ran through downtown Providence where that parking lot is located:

The picture below from the Library of Congress is an overhead view of Providence Station in the 1970s, after Amtrak took over.  You can see the tunnel portal at the top center of the photo, a little to the left of the white steeple:

The tracks at the bottom of the picture continue south to Connecticut and NYC along the Northeast Corridor.  The tracks the curve off to the left continue on up to Boston's South Station.  The tracks that head into the tunnel portal formerly led to Bristol, RI.

Steven J. Serenska

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Post-Christmas of '58, I came within a few dozen cases of Pilsner of getting him to spring for an unsold #2350 EP5 in a #2259 set from '57. The beer won (out as it did several times a day), but I always had my eye on the McGinnis scheme, even if I was just a kid from the Canadian prairie province of Alberta. Now I live on the coast and enjoy all the fallen flags and buy what I want and need. NH is still big in my house. I've got two regular #2350's, two NH shells (one I've restored) and maybe my treasure is a so-called 'salesman's sample' LIONEL NH shell that was decorated by Elliot Welz, but has an immense missing piece on one front. Elliot just used the good side to show. Pix 2-4 show my attempt at a strip and repaint of a damaged shell (not Elliot's). Reason for bad pix on the Elliot Welz Lionel salesman's copy is the unit is packed for now, so only had pix of 3 "tiff"'s...Amy's B:day NH #1 #2350 stripped shell #2 I had the separation #3 Real on bottom my repn't top #4 Welz 1 Welz 2 Welz 3  The NH is still big for many!

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In the most recent copies of "Classic Trains" and "Passenger Train Journal" the R&LHS is advertising a 32-page booklet "The wreck of The Federal Washington, D.C. ,January 15, 1953. The picture in the ad is of PRR GG1 motor #4876 laying over with a NH coach apparently still coupled to it and another NH coach standing beside them.  The placards on the coaches are the era "New York, New Haven and Hartford."

Earlier spoke to as a kid in the later 50's admiration  for the Lionel catalog image of the EP-5.

Well mind arrived August 2 with one of the pilots snapped off.

IMG_5222

Fixed it literally.

IMG_5299

IMG_5298

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Added some cars

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Will run with consist extended with a couple of Pennsy ribbed cars (very prototypical) and end with say the Adophus or JOMAR business cars.

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Photos show my New Haven Railroad R-1-a steam engine #3310 made by Lionel (6-28058) as offered in their 2000 Volume 2 catalog. The model itself depicts a USRA 4-8-2 Light Mountain type with Baker valve gear and built-up trailing truck. This configuration is correct for New Haven R-1 steam engines #3300 to #3309 and this model should have been numbered as such by Lionel. The real New Haven #3310 was an R-1-a – a similar locomotive but instead with Southern valve gear, cast Delta trailing truck, and sand dome above the second set of driving wheels.

New Haven R-1s were standard USRA designs built by ALCO’s Richmond Works in 1919 with 69-inch drivers. They had 27 x 30 cylinders, 200 psi boiler pressure, 53,900 pounds of tractive effort, and gave outstanding performance on the New Haven. In 1921, an R-1-a derailed while backing through a slip switch into Boston’s South Station after which its 4-8-2s were barred from the station. They continued in passenger service elsewhere but were used mostly on freights.

MELGAR

MELGAR_NHRR_R1A_3310_1MELGAR_NHRR_R1A_3310_4

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Found a "new" copy of "NEW HAVEN Passenger trains" on eBay.  Lots of good stuff.  But disappointed in-that no word or photos of an EP-5.  Only on the front dust cover.

The "Trackside around The Big Apple" has 9 photos of an EP-5 including one of motor #370 out of a total of 31 photos of NH.

IMG_5309

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First photo shows what once was New Haven Railroad Signal Station 44 (renamed Berk Tower by Penn Central) at milepost 41.3 on the New Haven (now Metro-North) mainline in South Norwalk, Connecticut. This tower was built in 1896 and controlled the junction at which northbound trains branched off to Danbury, Connecticut and Pittsfield, Massachusetts. Second photo shows the adjacent truss bridge which carries the 4-track mainline across the intersection of Main and Washington Streets in South Norwalk. Both photos taken while on a Metro-North train from Danbury to Norwalk on June 1, 2017.

MELGAR

MELGAR_SOUTH_NORWALK_SS_44MELGAR_SOUTH_NORWALK_TRUSS_BRIDGE

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MELGAR posted:


Second photo shows the adjacent truss bridge which carries the 4-track mainline across the intersection of Main and Washington Streets in South Norwalk. Both photos taken while on a Metro-North train from Danbury to Norwalk on June 1, 2017.

MELGAR

MELGAR_SOUTH_NORWALK_TRUSS_BRIDGE

Thanks for these photos.

I used to live a short distance away from South Norwalk in Rowayton, CT.  Unlike every other resident of those two towns who would use I-95, when driving to "SONO", I enjoyed traveling near the water along "Old Trolley Way" and stopping near where the car barns were located.

One of my favorite parts of that bridge is located along the base.  The diagonal, vertical, and horizontal side struts are all supported by what looks like an operable hex "nut" about 1-2 feet in diameter.  The photo below shows one of these:

[Sorry; image removed to avoid potential copyright issues.  Contact me offline if you'd like a private copy.]

When passing over or under, I always imagine a large crescent wrench being used to tighten 'er up.

Steven J. Serenska

This bridge is an excellent example of structural design from the days long before computers. Both photos show "pinned connections" which are cylindrical pins secured at their ends by hex nuts. In such connections, the member is free to rotate about the pin. They were (and are) used because they result in zero bending moment about the axis of the pin, thereby eliminating bending stress in the member. Only tension/compression stresses remain. It appears that pinned connections are used throughout the South Norwalk truss bridge.

MELGAR

Serenska posted:
MELGAR posted:


Second photo shows the adjacent truss bridge which carries the 4-track mainline across the intersection of Main and Washington Streets in South Norwalk. Both photos taken while on a Metro-North train from Danbury to Norwalk on June 1, 2017.

MELGAR

MELGAR_SOUTH_NORWALK_TRUSS_BRIDGE

One of my favorite parts of that bridge is located along the base.  The diagonal, vertical, and horizontal side struts are all supported by would looks like an operable hex "nut" about 1-2 feet in diameter.   When passing over or under, I always imagine a large crescent wrench being used to tighten 'er up.  The photo below shows one of these:

July 30, 2019 MELGAR removed photo posted by Serenska.

Steven J. Serenska

 

My MTH Premier New Haven Railroad ALCO PA locomotives #0760 and #0764 with PS-2 are about 15 years old. The New Haven purchased 10 PAs (class DER-3a) in 1948 for use on passenger trains. They had 2000 HP and were geared for 80 MPH, then re-geared for 90 MPH in 1953. They were superseded by the FL-9s after 1956. These MTH engines were part of an A-B-A set, but the New Haven never had any PA B-units.

MELGAR

MELGAR_NHRR_ALCO_PA_0760_0764_1MELGAR_NHRR_ALCO_PA_0760_0764_3

 

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briansilvermustang posted:

I am also a NH fan - I have a New Haven drawing showing what an EP-4 (the black and white photo just above these words) would look like in McGinness colors. Pretty sure they were all retired before any got the new paint scheme.

Jim

Jim Waterman

Lee Lines Limited

Custom Built Standard Gauge

 

Jim Waterman posted:
briansilvermustang posted:

 

 

I am also a NH fan - I have a New Haven drawing showing what an EP-4 (the black and white photo just above these words) would look like in McGinness colors. Pretty sure they were all retired before any got the new paint scheme.

Jim

Jim there must have been some underlying reason.  Since the EP-4's survived and ran for almost six-years after McGinnis "ran" away from the New Haven RR.

PRRronbh posted:
Jim Waterman posted:
briansilvermustang posted:

 

 

I am also a NH fan - I have a New Haven drawing showing what an EP-4 (the black and white photo just above these words) would look like in McGinness colors. Pretty sure they were all retired before any got the new paint scheme.

Jim

Jim there must have been some underlying reason.  Since the EP-4's survived and ran for almost six-years after McGinnis "ran" away from the New Haven RR.

Ron - yes - they survived, never repainted, the last one ran until 1961 but lingered on the dead track until 1963. Many believe that these locos had another 20 years of life in them (witness their near cousins, the GG1, that ran until 1983).  Good info in the JW Swansberg/Stauffer book.

Jim Waterman

Lee Lines Limited

Custom Built Standard Gauge

 

During the McGinnis presidency (1954 to January 1956), it became the policy of the New Haven Railroad to reduce electric operations and replace them with diesels wherever possible. After McGinnis resigned, George Alpert continued this policy until the New Haven filed for bankruptcy in 1961. Under Alpert, the railroad had very low cash reserves and was focused on saving money. The EP-5s and FL-9s were painted in the McGinnis scheme at the time they were manufactured, but very little repainting of the older electric locomotives was ever done. The EP-4s entered service in 1938. By the late 1950s, they were relegated to secondary trains and the Danbury branch. A McGinnis scheme painting diagram was prepared for the EP-4s but never implemented. The last of the EP-4s ran in 1961.

MELGAR

I have to be a New Haven fan as I live next to the New Haven Line right-of-way in Westchester County, NY. According to both the Metro-North and Amtrak timetables plus 2 freight trains and deadhead moves there are about 300 trains passing my home each week day, most are electric trains powered by using the overhead wires for power.

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