DCS Novices

I've run DCS for a couple years but I'm definitely a novice.  I actually find it more intuitive than Legacy (which I also have).  I only use the remote.  I'm not a very demanding user.  I fine tune my sounds, smoke on/off, and that's about it.  Occasionally, I'll do a lash-up.

Arnold, thanks for starting a good thread (at least from my selfish perspective, it's a good one   ).  I literally just started wiring TODAY of my first layout with the homerun/star approach. Past layouts with TMCC but without DCS used the bus wire approach. Doesn't seem like rocket science, but I tend to overthink new things.

I purchased a used TIU and remote several years ago, but have only used them on a carpet layout at Christmas.  Perhaps out of fear with MTH's closure, I recently bought a back-up remote and TWO back-up TIUs. Just dealing with versions will be a new experience.

Looking forward to reading everyone's comments and advice.

I'm expecting delivery of a MTH train set soon. It has PS-3 technology, but my layout has only the "bargain basement" version of DCS -- the Remote Commander gear (sometimes called "DCS lite").

A MTH Z1000 transformer is wired to my layout and the Remote Commander is installed.  Question: is it adequate for this locomotive?

Mike Mottler
DCS Novice 

Mike, maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can give you a more definitive answer, but my guess is that a Z1000 is fine for running a PS3 locomotive on a modest-sized layout.

I also think that starting with the DCS Remote Commander you have is probably a very good way to start out with DCS.

I got the same Remote Commander about 7 years ago and never used it. I got it because it came with an MTH train set that included a CSX PS3 diesel, and a few freight cars. At that time, I was only interested in the trains that came with the set, not the DCS Remote Commander.

The way I got interested in DCS is through running LionChief Plus (LC+) engines using the LC+ dedicated remote units. I was, and still am, very happy with the user friendliness of running LC+ engines using the remotes.

Then, I gravitated to DCS because I had several PS2 and PS3 locomotives, and wanted to run them like I run my LC+ engines using the remotes.

Arnold

Arnold, I don't reckon I fall into the novice category of DCS users as I've been using it off and on since it first debuted around 20 years ago now. Nevertheless, nearly every time I use DCS it's always an adventure of sorts, and I will say unapologetically there's always something that goes amiss for me, though undoubtedly sometimes its operator error. In my experience the simpler the layout the better DCS works...there's so many variables on factors that effect the system.

Just today I was building a lashup using DCS...it took me a while but it kind of all comes back as I went through the buttons and scrolling, etc.

@Mike H Mottler posted:

A MTH Z1000 transformer is wired to my layout and the Remote Commander is installed.  Question: is it adequate for this locomotive?

Yes.  I started with the Z1000 three years ago before I purchased DCS.  It will work just fine.

@Paul Kallus posted:

In my experience the simpler the layout the better DCS works

Paul's response reminds me that I should have provided more details.

My layout is exactly 10 x 15 feet with an additional 11 x 4 feet L section.  There is about 160 linear feet of FasTrack with 12 switches all on track power.  I'm using two channels on one TIU for essentially two isolated loops.  Each channel or loop has two power/TIU hookups.

I was new to the hobby when I built the layout so I didn't get silly about wiring.  Ignorance is bliss.  I just connected one piece of track near the TIU and another at the furthest end of the layout.  It worked like a champ the first time I hooked it up.  My advice to any newbie is: start simple.  Unless your layout is enormous or complicated, then just hook up the TIU and see if it works.  Later on, if you want to get Barry's book, do star-wiring, and build a control panel that looks like the space shuttle, then go for it.

@MikeH posted:

Unless your layout is enormous or complicated, then just hook up the TIU and see if it works.  Later on, if you want to get Barry's book, do star-wiring, and build a control panel that looks like the space shuttle, then go for it.

That's likely good advice especially if adding DCS to an existing layout. Since I'm building a new layout, I figured best to go with the recommendations in Barry's book. My last layout had TMCC with bus wiring (easy peasy).  I've used DCS on a Christmas layout like you described (one hot, one common wire from TIU to each loop also simple).

To your point, though, I'm not planning any accessory or switch control via DCS or TMCC for this new layout.  For one, my layout isn't that big and, two, I want to retain some of the old postwar operating appeal. Maybe I'll change my mind someday on that, but I doubt it.  Just want to run trains with a remote control device.

My biggest challenge ahead, I think, is using 2 TIUs.  I have many small transformers, no 180W bricks, so I'm using 2 transformers and therefore 2 TIU channels per mainline.  Each mainline is about 80' in length, so there's room to run 2 trains on each simultaneously, but I can't see a single 90-100W transformer handling the load of 2 trains. So, 1 TIU will cover 2 mainlines each broken into 2 districts.  I'm putting the switching and storage yard on a separate TIU.

Otherwise, 100% on board with your advice.

I run diesels.  I like a little engine noise but not too much.  However, I like my bell and horn loud.  So I go into Menu>Sounds and I turn the engine noise down to about 30%.  I keep the bell and horn at 100%.  Full disclosure, I used DCS for at least a year before I knew I could do that.

I relate to almost everything that has been mentioned above.

I relate to what Paul said because I am likely only to use the basic features of DCS for the foreseeable future, and I know I'll be making operator's mistakes. To avoid them, every time I start up an engine using the DCS remote, I turn to the DCS Operator's Manual and follow the step by step process therein.

Barry's book, mentioned by Raising4daughters, is indispensable; I regard it as my DCS bible. And, I also am not planning any DCS accessory or switch control.

At this point, having installed the TIU and running DCS for only 2 weeks, I am content with the basic DCS features.

I have 2 Z4000 transformers and the Z4000 Receiver to use the Z4KTracks, but I have not connected the Receiver yet. I got the Receiver because MTH may be closing its business soon, and I want the option, down the road, to run my Postwar and PS1 engines using the DCS remote.

I also recently acquired the necessary equipment to run TMCC and Legacy engines using the DCS remote, but have not hooked it up yet. Again, I want the option to do so, down the road.

Arnold

Thanks to OGR FORUM-ites who affirmed my existing MTH Z1000 transformer and already-installed DCS Remote Commander would be more than adequate for the MTH Aerotrain (equipped with PS-3) when placed on my modest-size L-shaped layout for its inaugural run.  That loco will be the ONLY MTH train on the layout. All my other locos are either Lionel TMCC or LionChief+.

I know some hobbyists have wired their layout with BOTH Lionel TMCC and MTH DCS wiring in place and simultaneously active; both brands of locos run fine.  However, I wired my layout through a low-tech knife switch; one side of the switch connects a Lionel 135w "brick" through a TMCC Command Base to the track, the other side connects a MTH Z1000 with DCS (through a Remote Commander) to the track. I don't want or need to run Lionel and MTH locos on the layout at the same time.

Four lockons connect track power around the layout through bus wiring which works great for all the Lionel locos.  I'll soon know if my existing bus wiring will satisfy the MTH loco. I know MTH recommends "star" wiring, but I hope I can avoid installing a duplicate wiring path with a "star" pattern for distribution of track power to the Aerotrain.

Mike Mottler

Mike H  - Yes a Z1000 is more than enough.

Raising4Daughters -  My layout is roughly 30x 50 with four loops on the main table and 4 powered districts (basically loops but connected to the main). I use one TIU for the main with each channel powering a loop ( although I could have powered all four with one transformer, I used 2-Z4000's). On the other table I use 4 Z-1000 Bricks to power that TIU. TIU's are set to operate together and I have had NO PROBLEMS.

You did the right thing by buying Barry's book and setting up like he suggest. Your problems will be minimal. I started back into the hobby in 2013 and purchased MTH. I now have Lionel and Atlas along with a Williams. As you grow Barry's book will answer 90% of any questions with the rest being answered here. JUST REMEMBER in your posted question include Make of train, Number (20-21264-1 as an example), How you are powering layout, and What items (TIU, AIU, Legacy 990, Z1000, etc). It will speed up an answer from here on the forum. This forum is always the go to place to ask. Best people with experience trying to help everyone, whether new of experienced.

Both of you enjoy the trains.

Arnold - you already know all this so continue having fun and keep asking questions. None of us know everything!

Curtis

Mike

You can run TMMC and Legacy using the wiring for DCS. I do with no problems. DCS will run TMCC and Legacy (as a TMMC engine) thru the remote with nothing added. Legacy run as Legacy will require Legacy system and SER2. If you have a MTH wifi unit you can then purchase the premier app ($25) and get 99% of legacy thru the MTH app.

I have been using DCS for about 18 years, but mostly just to occasionally run trains for many of those years.  I have 2 TIUs and added Wifi to each one a couple years ago.  I do have AIUs for switch and accessory control - don't let them intimidate you - they are just glorified switches (that just happen to require good bifocals and even better fine motor control to physically install LOL).  In the last year, I have added TMCC control through Base1L.

I am a technologist at heart, but I still run into those cognitive lapses we all sometimes have.  Reading Barry's book in the past 6 months was a great refresher.

My best advice is to try any parts of it you want!  There is always someone here on the forum to help.  I try to help where I can but am usually late to the dance.   Since its basically a toy, its really built to be manageable by most anyone.

On a side note, Barry was very gracious in helping me in the forum during my early foray into MTH and DCS.  I was so saddened upon my return to hear of his passing.

Use of star wiring as described is not a unanimous agreement.  When my son gave me a DCS set the week it came out some 20 years ago, I plopped the TIU between transformer and track and have been running ever since (much expanded).  I have 12-gauge bus running around the layout for ground, and 14-gauge wire runs from the 72 toggle switches on my control panel out to individual blocks.  It was designed that way in the early 90s to permit multiple locos to be run conventionally.  The late Marty Fitzhenry also did not use star wiring.

I love this post.  Some of us struggle with compatibility between MTH DCS and Legacy ,,,,, i have both and for the love of me, still dont "get" why there are four inputs and four outputs ... and why the transformer post #1 has to be on

I have four separate loops like @ CurtisH but when i plug loop two into the TIU i am still controlling it from lever one on the transformer

I bought Barry's book, but i am lost ... i am sure that i will figure it out with time

Steve:  Not only do the tracks have to be powered, which is done through the 4 channels, but the electronics inside the TIU needs to be powered, continuously.  MTH had provided two ways for this to be accomplised.  The first, and best, is through the AUX port; any 12-18-volt power supply of at least one amp will do.  An alternative method provided by MTH is that, if nothing is plugged into AUX, the TIU wll seek to obtain power from the FIXED 1 input.  Problem with this is that, if the transformer handle is pulled back, the TIU shuts off and you lose control on all channels.  Therefore, the use of a separate power supply---not your train transformer---feeding AUX is highly recommended.

There are 4 channels to provide greater power and signal strength for larger layouts, and to provide two vehicles---VARIABLE 1 & 2---for using the remote to provide control of track voltage when running conventional.  This gives walkaround control when running conventional.  I never have to touch a transformer handle

You may feed multiple inputs from a single transformer "handle" or you may use separate "handles" or transformers to provide more power.  I have a large layout, capable of running many engines at once, and use 6 channels (2 TIUs)  I also have an MTH product, no longer made, that controls voltage output of a Z4000.  The feed that through FIXED 1 & 2 (one handle each) and feed the other 4 VARIABLE channels from an OLD ZW and a PH-180.  The result is that I can, from the remote, control the voltage on all 6 channels, separately, if I want to run my ancient conventional locos,  Having 25 DCS locos, I usually have all 6 channels fixed at about 16 volts.

As someone stated, a nice thread.  A couple of thoughts:

1.  I was told not to run switches off of track power, as it interferes with the DCS signal.  You can usually get away with 3-4 switches, but 5 or more you should put them on their own power source.  Now with the Rev. L TIU and software updates this might have changed.

2.  If you are running 4 command loops and no non command trains,  you don’t need 2 TIU’s.  The 2 variable channels can be changed to fixed mode with a couple of key strokes on the remote or APP.  You can save the extra TIU for a spare.  The other big plus is if you using the APP, you only need 1 WI-FI unit as each TIU requires it’s own WI-FI interface.

@mrmacher posted:

As someone stated, a nice thread.  A couple of thoughts:

1.  I was told not to run switches off of track power, as it interferes with the DCS signal.  You can usually get away with 3-4 switches, but 5 or more you should put them on their own power source.  Now with the Rev. L TIU and software updates this might have changed.

2.  If you are running 4 command loops and no non command trains,  you don’t need 2 TIU’s.  The 2 variable channels can be changed to fixed mode with a couple of key strokes on the remote or APP.  You can save the extra TIU for a spare.  The other big plus is if you using the APP, you only need 1 WI-FI unit as each TIU requires it’s own WI-FI interface.

If you are using Fastrack switches, simply remove the jumper on the back side and replace it with a 22uh choke on each switch. That will help prevent any degrading of the DCS signal. In addition, switching generally occurs only for a "nano-second" at a time.