GGD El Capitan - Second Chance

Thanks Jim for the update. I will end Scott an e-mail.

I think I did an advanceorder is it the "3RGGDMHWCSF - SF MODERN HW 4 COACH SET"?  That's what my email said.  

How much was your set?  Looks like you ordered a set of heavyweight cars at $600 for the 4-car set.

The El Capitan hi-level cars are an entirely different offering... Aluminum hi-level cars in an 8-car set ($2k), and optional add-on cars as ala carte offerings.

David

Rboatertoo, in the recent thread you started, you talked about acquiring the great passenger trains. The Hi-Level El Capitan would be a must have in this category. I wound run, not walk, if you haven't yet ordered this one.

Thanks I just sent a email to Scott.  I thought it was too cheap.

I am running as fast as my fingers can type!!  Run Forest Run!!!

Run Forest Run!!!

They are still too outside my era. 1956 is approaching the 60's. I cutoff at 1953- however I think the cars are so cool I can forget about my era!

I've been having the same problem.  For the Santa Fe in 1956, it brings about a lot of modifications.  However, running the El Cap/Super Chief would be spectacular. 

Perhaps Scott can come up with something else to appease me in the not to distant future.  I sure would like a streamlined 1949 Chief with the NYC, Pennsy, and B&O transcon cars.   

We need Scott to make a "Big Dome"

But I would take a couple extra El Capitan cars if he is going to run more singles as well.

Man Jim,

You're killing me!!

One good thing can come out of all the people buying these beautiful 21" passenger car sets. All those nice 18" sets that just might be coming up for sale from people making room ... a good thing for guys with smaller layouts.

Rich,

I'm not killing you.  But I might be helping you to get "FAT" of all the good deals that may become available on the Sants Fe 18" passenger cars.  I sold fifteen MTH 18" cars to a forum member in March last year.  I put them up for sale a few days after I placed my order for the El Cap with Scott.  The buyer didn't want all 15 cars, but the post I put on the For Sale/Trade forum was ALL of nothing. I did not want to piece-meal the cars.  If you remember I had installed over 300 people on my Super Chief.

But I'm guessing that you would not have been interested since there were not produced by your favorite manufacturer.  If that is true let me know because I might be able to locate a 7-car set of MTH from a friend in California. 

You always gotta tease don't ya Erik?  

Big Dome means the earlier version of the El Capitan, or the Chief or even the San Francisco Chief.   I'd be up for all or any of those.  It would mean streamlined Budd coaches.

The Big Dome never ran with the Hi-Level El Capitan did it?  I thought they re-assigned it when the Hi Level cars went into service.

Those cars are off the chart, you guys will be so happy with these!

I'd jump all over the second run if I had missed the first one.  Small price to pay for a high end model at that price point.

Hope you all enjoy!

Having seen the actually samples a little over a week ago, I can say the photos do not do this train justice.  No, it is not inexpensive, however, it is as far as I have seen the best train set ever produced that is not brass.  The lounge car and the transition / dorm are standouts for sure, but overall this train is simply outstanding. 

It is so well detailed, I'm probably going to rebuild my FP45s to be more prototypical that I picked up to pull it with. 

No it didn't, but with an assortment of different cars, you could make a lot of different trains with them. Though not exactly correct, especially for 3R guys, no one would no the difference anyway

San Diegans, San Francisco, etc etc There is a lot of options to throw a Big Dome in there. 

and I plan on running an executive/officer train so I really really could use a BIG DOME

 but overall this train is simply outstanding. 

This is painful.

You just need to convince Scott like I have been trying to.... to build some FP45s for us. They would be a big hit for sure!

Those cars shouldn't even be on the same layout as my E1's.  That would be a pretty cool consist though

__________________________________________________________________________

I've never seen the Super Chief / El Capitan run with the big dome, just the Pleasure Dome.  I'll have to look through some of my books.

Did they run the Big Dome and Pleasure Domes in the same train?

No..not in the same train... sorry my fingers were going faster than my thought process Howard. I went back and edited my previous post to what it was supposed to say

Now when I run a private excursion train with 3751, 844, or S3 #261 it will have all the top dogs of passenger cars

I can't find evidence the Big Domes ran on the Hi-Level El Capitan/Super Chief, only the Pleasure Dome.  

Can anyone point me in that direction?

I don't have any pix of it either..... I will go through my library again when Im at work, but I have not seen the Big Dome in that train.

In the train or not, we do need the Big Dome!

YES!

More pic's from Scott's response on the 3RS Forum.

That is mine on the second row,  Can you spot yours?

Reservations for 2nd El Capitan run are now being accepted on the GGD website.

Before it was "reservations closed".  Website below.

http://www.goldengatedepot.com/reservation.htm

As I understand it, the RPO is not in the 8-car set.  So that's a natural to order as an extra add-on.  In addition, I see that the lounge car is also being offered as an extra add-on which is really SWEET!

There are folks here that are far more familiar with this train than I am,  but I think the typical 1956 El Capitan train had 12 cars as follows:

• RPO
• Baggage [*]
• Baggage/Dorm Transition Car [*]
• 68-seater Hi-Level Step Down Chair Car [*]
• 72-seater Hi-Level Chair Car [*]
• 72-seater Hi-Level Chair Car
• Hi-Level Diner [*]
• Hi-Level Lounge [*]
• 72-seater Hi-Level Chair Car
• 72-seater Hi-Level Chair Car
• 72-seater Hi-Level Chair Car [*]
• 68-seater Hi-Level Step Down Chair Car [*]

I've marked the cars contained in the 8-car set with [*].  My set was confirmed for the first production run, but I had a couple of add-on cars on standby.  Now that the second production run may become a reality, I've up'd my standby order to be:  1 RPO, 1 extra lounge, and 2 extra 72-seat coaches. 

David

That's not exactly the case Jim but I'm sure you know that but enjoy grinding my stones a bit...

True when it comes to motive power I do stick to my "favorite manufacturer" but rolling stock is a different story... there I am equal opportunity across the board.

You would be surprised at the number of passenger sets I own from the "other" manufacturer including a beautiful DAP 10 car Union Pacific streamline set that I proudly run behind my JLC Challenger.

Point is I don't want to get fat Jim I just want to find a nice set of 18" cars to pull behind those beautiful ABBA's I just bought.... so if you think its the right set and the right deal I don't care who made it.. I trust your judgment when it comes to anything Santa Fe.

RD,

I am selling a 7 car set of 18" Lionel ATSF aluminum passenger cars.  You may be interested, not sure, but here is the link to the For Sale page.

If you have any questions send me an email at time4trains@live.com

take care

Jim, good news all around about the 2nd run. Thanks for staying on top of this for us.

Here is a list of the EL Cap consist when the hi-level cars were introduced in '56:

Overview

This page depicts the typical consist of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe's El Capitan when the Hi-Level equipment entered service on 8 July 1956.

Consist

	ATSF 331 (325 class EMD F7A).
	ATSF 19LABC (16 class EMD F3A). Santa Fe's initial five sets of passenger F3s (16LABC - 21LABC), built by EMD in 1946, had a longer warbonnet, which persisted even after the early three-porthole side panels were upgraded to later F-unit designs to improve airflow.  They also had aluminum-painted side panels, rather than the stainless steels panels used on later Santa Fe passenger Fs.
	ATSF 3440 (3432 class), baggage-express car, one of 21 built by Budd in 1942 for general service.
	ATSF 3453 (3453 class), baggage-express car, one of 14 built by American Car & Foundry (ACF) in 1950 for service on the Super Chief, El Capitan, and Kansas City Chief.
	ATSF 3480, transition car, one of two built by Budd in 1938 as baggage-dormitory-chair cars for the original El Capitan and converted at Topeka for assingment to the Hi-Level El Capitan. The other car, ATST 3481, looked slightly different as it retained its skirting.
	ATSF 528-class Hi-Level step-down chair car.
	ATSF 700-class Hi-Level chair cars.
	ATSF 650-class Hi-Level dining car.
	ATSF 575-class Hi-Level lounge car.
	ATSF 700-class Hi-Level chair cars.
	ATSF 528-class Hi-Level step-down chair car.

Bibliography

• Berglund, Lee. "Forty Years of Santa Fe Covered Wagons." <cite>Sante Fe Modeler</cite>, Third Quarter 1991. Also available online from The Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society and transcribed by Russell Crump.
• Bruce, John. <cite>Santa Fe Warbonnet F7s</cite>. WWW page.
• Clough, Brian. <cite>The 1956 El Capitan Hi-Level cars</cite>. WWW site.
• Flick, Michael W. and Dennis Kogan. "Santa Fe's Hi-Level Passenger Cars." <cite>The Warbonnet</cite>, Third Quarter 1999, pp. 8-24.
• Fuhrman, Jim. <cite>EMD F2/F3/F5 Phase Chart</cite>. WWW page.
• Fuhrman, Jim. <cite>EMD F7 & F9 phases</cite>. WWW page.
• Jolpin, Loren B. "The 325 Class -Sante Fe's Dual-Service Workhorses." <cite>The Warbonnet</cite>, Third Quarter 2000, pp. 22-28.
• Kogan, Flick. "The Characteristics of Fluting." <cite>Southwestern Prototype Modeler</cite>, January-February 1976, pp. 6-10. Also available online.
• McMillan, Joe. <cite>Santa Fe's Diesel Fleet</cite>. Burlingame, California: Chatham Publishing, 1975.
• O'Connor, Tim. <cite>ATSF 2-door Budd baggage car 1967 Colorado Springs</cite>. WWW site: Railfan.net ABPR Archive.
• Priest, Dr. Cinthia. <cite>The Santa Fe Diesel - Volume One: Dieselization - 1960</cite>. Paired Rail Railroad Publications, 1997.
• Randall, W. David and Alan R. Lind. <cite>From Zephyr to Amtrak</cite>. Park Forest, Illinois: Prototype Publications, 1972.
• Sandifer, Steve. <cite>Concor and Athearn LWT Baggage</cite>. WWW page.
• Zimmerman, Karl. <cite>Santa Fe Streamliners - The Chiefs and Their Tribesmen</cite>. New York: Quadrant Press, 1987.
• -. <cite>Santa Fe Links: Passenger Cars</cite>. WWW page: The Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society.
• -. <cite>Overland Mail</cite>, Issue #128, April-June 2000. Muncie, Indiana: Overland Models, pp. 1570-1571.

EDIT:  Just click on the "HERE" above for the website from which the above information was supplied.

I ordered my set from Scott Mann yesterday.

Scrappy

Well I couldn't take it any more.. if I bought any set of 18" cars I would have 3" envy for as long as I owned them.. you guys that own boats know what I'm talking about!

Solution .. after an e mail conversation with Scott I went and pulled the trigger on a new set of his El Capitan cars complete with RPO and a couple extra cars!

Now I have to go back to the drawing board and fit in larger curves on my new layout to accommodate them.... good problem to have!

Rich,

THAT is going to be the BEST $3,000 you have will ever spend in this great hobby.

BTW, what are you gonna use to power this beauty?

As I stated in the email I just sent you;  Can you think of a better Christmas present for yourself?

I just ordered 2 extra hi level chair cars & a RPO to go with first run 8 car set.

Can't Wait

For those on the fence about reserving from the second run, I expect to have a sample lounge car on display at the Sunset/Golden Gate tables in the Orange Hall at York.

I have this great set of Santa Fe F3s ABBA that I just picked up that will look perfect on the head end.

Scott said the second run should be here by the end of the year so it should be right in time for Christmas..

Merry Christmas to me!! 

Pictures please!! Lots of pictures...

I know it's York and there is no pictures in the halls but.. PLEASE.. take it outside if you have to!!

Just ordered the RPO

No brainer

I will save you some time... waiting.

We are adding matresses in the Baggage Dorm car (Transition Car). But unfortunately the sheets didn't arrive in time for packing the cars. 

After reading a thread sent to me by Santa Fe Jim on the details and history of the El Capitan I feel I may have made an error.

When I ordered I was just learning about the makeup of the real train. I ordered the set +RPO + extra chair + extra lounge car.. I ordered the extra lounge because I read it was going to be a really cool car and I figured you can never have enough lounge cars on a train ..right?? 

My question .. should I change my order to an extra chair car.. did the Capitan ever run with 2 lounge cars??

I also read how these cars could be arranged to be other Santa Fe trains..did they have extra lounge cars?

Or ....maybe its too late to change my order and it doesn't matter?!?!

Rich,

You only placed the order 2 days ago,  Scott will let you change it.  Just ask.

I responded to your question via email.

Are the baggage and RPO cars the same as those that came with the Super Chief.  I've never seen a picture.  Santa Fe had some different of baggage cars.

YES, the baggage and RPO were pool cars used by several trains.

Here is the RPO (63') and Baggage car used on the El Cap.

Jim,
I did just e mail Scott to ask if it's too late now that my order has been confirmed. This is the first time I ordered from GGD and am not familiar with procedure. I hope to hear from him soon and I'll let you know.

btw: thanks for guiding through this foray into scale land.. Santa Fe has always been a favorite of mine so it makes sense this be my first..

Thanks Jim, that's what I assumed.  I was just wondering if 3rd Rail found something else to model.  

I think I've gotten over my El Cap fever and found a Santa Fe steam engine I've been wanting.  WRONG

However, it is a sweet train.

Has anyone seen the drumhead yet?  I am hoping for the Conquistador image.

The Conquistador image is what I drew for the drumhead on this set, so yes I have seen it.

I just placed my order for the second run....

Too cool!  This set just keeps getting better and better!  I am so glad I ordered it.  These will be my first GGD passenger cars.  Do they have kadee mounting holes pre-drilled in the underframe?

thanks

Don't have production drumhead pictures yet but it is like this one, a Kato HO model picture.

After a couple of e mails Scott has fixed my order. We traded the lounge car in for another coach and its all good.

I have to say I have never dealt with an owner who was easier and more willing to accommodate...

Thanks Scott!

Rich,

You are learning why 3rd Rail and GGD really provide standout products in the 3 rail and 2 rail communities.  You are not just buying a train set, you are buying incredible customer service while joining a community of train enthusiasts who so actively support the efforts of this company. 

The amount of research and input that goes into these products is unlike anything else in this price range.  Sure they cost more than the bigger manufacturers products, but the value is really there in outstanding trains that you can proudly run and display.  Scott is just great to work with.