Heinz Pickle Cars

Lobaugh's MOBILGAS decals were white with black outline.  I believe the real tanks were silver with black outline.

You would have thought that people LIVING at the time would have been able to get it right. And it is really hard to look at a black and white photo and guess what the colors are. Now WAS there a Mobilgas tanker painted white with black that existed, who knows! And were the crude oil tankers really silver when they began life, who knows! For that matter, the roofs of green Southern steam engines seem to verifiably NOT be oxide red, except for MAYBE one or two of the 6xxx series engines. But there sure are a lot of them painted that way as models.

The real problem I have with pickle cars is that the decals I have happen to be blue end lettering, and that should be white. I seriously do not believe that they ever put blue paint lettering on boxcar red / brown ends. And some of the cars abbreviated the word "COMPANY" as "CO" along the bottom in white while other car numbers used the whole word. The photos I have also shows that different car numbers had different lettering on the sides as to capacities on the left and car info written on the right hand panel of each side.

Another issue is that the color scheme written for the car in 1941 says that the words HEINZ VARIETIES are blue but specifically says NOT OUTLINED in white. The imported OMI cars were decaled with outlines as well as the decals I have reflect that also. 

From a printers point of view, all may be correct. There are usually more than one color version of any given design while in the print production phase. You make samples for approval. The samples are usually at least 50-100 each, but a ream wouldn't be unheard of; just enough to get the process rolling well is the goal. These variations are seldom just thrown away, but saved for use where a deviation isn't all that important; or for a different color background; for when the prime version runs low, etc..  Heinz used a large number of logos with minor variations.

Good luck with locking it down, but keep that in mind along with "a protype for everything"

And again, the old Lobaugh ad for it says that the lettering across the bottom is YELLOW on brown...and "red roof and ends", whatever that means.

Adriatic posted:

From a printers point of view, all may be correct. There are usually more than one color version of any given design while in the print production phase. You make samples for approval. The samples are usually at least 50-100 each, but a ream wouldn't be unheard of; just enough to get the process rolling well is the goal. These variations are seldom just thrown away, but saved for use where a deviation isn't all that important; or for a different color background; for when the prime version runs low, etc..  Heinz used a large number of logos with minor variations.

Good luck with locking it down, but keep that in mind along with "a protype for everything"

Probably NEVER be able to lock it down!

You know, I think someone here may have worked or works for Hienz. It was posted in the last few months if I'm not mistaken. Maybe a search and contact could get you an inside scoop?

Ok, from Leider's book, Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest, p 134.  For the H. J. Heinz series 70-80:

"The side panels other than the side sills are painted chrome yellow with the "57" in dark blue, outlines in white, the words "Heinz Varieties" in dark blue, not outlines. The side sills, end panels, and top hatches are brown and lettering is white.  The running gear is painted black."

There are several photos on pages 55-56 with color ones on page 55.

If you have any interest in the Pickle and Vinegar business and how that pertained to the RR's, then you should own this book.

Another excellent source of information on this topic is in the NMRA SIG newsletters, "Pickles in Miniature" in which detailed plans were published long ago.

mwb posted:

Ok, from Leider's book, Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest, p 134.  For the H. J. Heinz series 70-80:

"The side panels other than the side sills are painted chrome yellow with the "57" in dark blue, outlines in white, the words "Heinz Varieties" in dark blue, not outlines. The side sills, end panels, and top hatches are brown and lettering is white.  The running gear is painted black."

There are several photos on pages 55-56 with color ones on page 55.

If you have any interest in the Pickle and Vinegar business and how that pertained to the RR's, then you should own this book.

 

Another excellent source of information on this topic is in the NMRA SIG newsletters, "Pickles in Miniature" in which detailed plans were published long ago.

 

Never heard of the book. Ordered one though...Wonder where the author got his painting info.

To add insult, here is a OMI in HO scale with data lettering in white...

https://www.brasstrains.com/Br...ads-HEINZ-PICKLE-CAR

oscaletrains posted:

mwb posted:

Ok, from Leider's book, Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest, p 134.  For the H. J. Heinz series 70-80:

"The side panels other than the side sills are painted chrome yellow with the "57" in dark blue, outlines in white, the words "Heinz Varieties" in dark blue, not outlines. The side sills, end panels, and top hatches are brown and lettering is white.  The running gear is painted black."

There are several photos on pages 55-56 with color ones on page 55.

If you have any interest in the Pickle and Vinegar business and how that pertained to the RR's, then you should own this book.

 

Another excellent source of information on this topic is in the NMRA SIG newsletters, "Pickles in Miniature" in which detailed plans were published long ago.

 

Never heard of the book. Ordered one though...Wonder where the author got his painting info.

Once upon a time, you could access the Heinz archives personally and years ago this was actually done by several models, members of that NMRA SIG, and folks like Al Westerfield

Where did you get your decals???

mwb posted:

oscaletrains posted:

mwb posted:

Ok, from Leider's book, Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest, p 134.  For the H. J. Heinz series 70-80:

"The side panels other than the side sills are painted chrome yellow with the "57" in dark blue, outlines in white, the words "Heinz Varieties" in dark blue, not outlines. The side sills, end panels, and top hatches are brown and lettering is white.  The running gear is painted black."

There are several photos on pages 55-56 with color ones on page 55.

If you have any interest in the Pickle and Vinegar business and how that pertained to the RR's, then you should own this book.

 

Another excellent source of information on this topic is in the NMRA SIG newsletters, "Pickles in Miniature" in which detailed plans were published long ago.

 

Never heard of the book. Ordered one though...Wonder where the author got his painting info.

Once upon a time, you could access the Heinz archives personally and years ago this was actually done by several models, members of that NMRA SIG, and folks like Al Westerfield

Where did you get your decals???

Good question.  I think they came from Rails Unlimited also. I recall that they were meant to be for the vinegar car and pickle all on one sheet, copies of the OMI decals as far as I can tell except for the blue end lettering. I know I have a Champ set someplace but cannot locate it at the moment.

I have real photos of car 73 and 80. I wonder if there are any other photos out there of other car numbers.

The Westerfield pickle cars were an earlier style of car that this one though.

oscaletrains posted:

Good question.  I think they came from Rails Unlimited also. I recall that they were meant to be for the vinegar car and pickle all on one sheet, copies of the OMI decals as far as I can tell except for the blue end lettering. I know I have a Champ set someplace but cannot locate it at the moment.

I have real photos of car 73 and 80. I wonder if there are any other photos out there of other car numbers.

The Westerfield pickle cars were an earlier style of car that this one though.

 

Thought that Anson did those decals for Rails Unlimited?

Leider's book has photos of other cars in it; the other series of cars have slightly different lettering.  Just what series cars do these models really represent? How many panels are there on the sides? I wonder if the decals you have are really for a slightly later series of coffin pickle cars and not for the 70-80 cars?

oscaletrains posted:

mwb posted:

Ok, from Leider's book, Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest, p 134.  For the H. J. Heinz series 70-80:

"The side panels other than the side sills are painted chrome yellow with the "57" in dark blue, outlines in white, the words "Heinz Varieties" in dark blue, not outlines. The side sills, end panels, and top hatches are brown and lettering is white.  The running gear is painted black."

There are several photos on pages 55-56 with color ones on page 55.

If you have any interest in the Pickle and Vinegar business and how that pertained to the RR's, then you should own this book.

 

Another excellent source of information on this topic is in the NMRA SIG newsletters, "Pickles in Miniature" in which detailed plans were published long ago.

 

Never heard of the book. Ordered one though...Wonder where the author got his painting info.

Martin is spot on - You'll love it.  

It's a great reference book and great reading.

mwb posted:

oscaletrains posted:

Good question.  I think they came from Rails Unlimited also. I recall that they were meant to be for the vinegar car and pickle all on one sheet, copies of the OMI decals as far as I can tell except for the blue end lettering. I know I have a Champ set someplace but cannot locate it at the moment.

I have real photos of car 73 and 80. I wonder if there are any other photos out there of other car numbers.

The Westerfield pickle cars were an earlier style of car that this one though.

 

Thought that Anson did those decals for Rails Unlimited?

Leider's book has photos of other cars in it; the other series of cars have slightly different lettering.  Just what series cars do these models really represent? How many panels are there on the sides? I wonder if the decals you have are really for a slightly later series of coffin pickle cars and not for the 70-80 cars?

Well, if Mr Anson did the these decals, they are somewhat in error.

Rule292 posted:

oscaletrains posted:

mwb posted:

Ok, from Leider's book, Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest, p 134.  For the H. J. Heinz series 70-80:

"The side panels other than the side sills are painted chrome yellow with the "57" in dark blue, outlines in white, the words "Heinz Varieties" in dark blue, not outlines. The side sills, end panels, and top hatches are brown and lettering is white.  The running gear is painted black."

There are several photos on pages 55-56 with color ones on page 55.

If you have any interest in the Pickle and Vinegar business and how that pertained to the RR's, then you should own this book.

 

Another excellent source of information on this topic is in the NMRA SIG newsletters, "Pickles in Miniature" in which detailed plans were published long ago.

 

Never heard of the book. Ordered one though...Wonder where the author got his painting info.

Martin is spot on - You'll love it.  

It's a great reference book and great reading.

Should be a good read from the sounds of it.

According to this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_yellow

schcool bus yellow is "chrome yellow".  Wonder what OMI color was...

oscaletrains posted:

According to this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_yellow

schcool bus yellow is "chrome yellow".  Wonder what OMI color was...

Floquil supposedly has 2 matches, CSX yellow and CN yellow.  Any others?

oscaletrains posted:

mwb posted:

oscaletrains posted:

Good question.  I think they came from Rails Unlimited also. I recall that they were meant to be for the vinegar car and pickle all on one sheet, copies of the OMI decals as far as I can tell except for the blue end lettering. I know I have a Champ set someplace but cannot locate it at the moment.

I have real photos of car 73 and 80. I wonder if there are any other photos out there of other car numbers.

The Westerfield pickle cars were an earlier style of car that this one though.

 

Thought that Anson did those decals for Rails Unlimited?

Leider's book has photos of other cars in it; the other series of cars have slightly different lettering.  Just what series cars do these models really represent? How many panels are there on the sides? I wonder if the decals you have are really for a slightly later series of coffin pickle cars and not for the 70-80 cars?

Well, if Mr Anson did the these decals, they are somewhat in error.

I'm not sure that they are in error for the later series of cars - just maybe not right for the 70-80 cars