Lionel 2046 locomotive with "X" stamped on box???

Just a couple of wild guesses:

1 - does it have magnetraction? - maybe the x was used before they renumbered the engine to 2056

2 - Is the rear truck metal or plastic? - according to Tandem Associates, it is known to have come with a plastic rear truck

Variation C: Number is heat-stamped on the cab in WHITE that has a four windows. The trailing truck is sometimes die cast as the other two variations, but is sometimes found with a sheet metal plastic sided frame. The tender has bar-end trucks with one magnetic coupler. 1953 Production.

Can't say for sure but the X might mean that it has an electrically operated coupler on the tender. If the X is after the number, like 2046X, on the tender then it could be a non whistling tender. FYI; Lionel was not consistent when using their numbers and letters on items during the post war time.

Lee Fritz

It has the magnetraction and aluminum chassis unlike my 2056 which has the steel chassis. 

It also has rear metal truck.

One think that I noticed but don't think could be the reason for the X is when the drilled the holes for the handrail cotton pins.  They drill the holes in one shot strait though the boiler, thus getting two holes at once.  Well the rear drill hole closet to the cab has an extra hole like they misaligned during drilling and redrilled. The extra hole was done before paint as well.

phillyreading posted:

Can't say for sure but the X might mean that it has an electrically operated coupler on the tender. If the X is after the number, like 2046X, on the tender then it could be a non whistling tender. FYI; Lionel was not consistent when using their numbers and letters on items during the post war time.

Lee Fritz

This is not for the tender.  It is for the locomotive.

Thanks

Here's a link on this topic from the other train mag's forum. Not sure if this helps or just muddies the waters.

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/145087.aspx

BuddyS posted:

phillyreading posted:

Can't say for sure but the X might mean that it has an electrically operated coupler on the tender. If the X is after the number, like 2046X, on the tender then it could be a non whistling tender. FYI; Lionel was not consistent when using their numbers and letters on items during the post war time.

Lee Fritz

This is not for the tender.  It is for the locomotive.

Thanks

I just looked at the Greenberg's Lionel price guide, 2016 edition under post war page 66, and there is no 2046X for anything. There is a 2046T or a 2046W but no 2046X.

Lee Fritz

Yeah I couldn't find anything anywhere as well that would have a 2046X.  The X is only on the box.  I looked into this a few years ago and figured I would try again on the web.

I looked under sets and found that the 2046 engine is an 027 engine and mainly had the 2046W tender with it. Set # 1473WS, and 1475WS from 1950 and sets # 1505WS, 1507WS and 1509WS from 1953 have the 2046 & 2046W tender. Info from page 399 of Greenberg's price guide of 2016.

Lee Fritz

BuddyS posted:

It has the magnetraction and aluminum chassis unlike my 2056 which has the steel chassis. 

It also has rear metal truck.

One think that I noticed but don't think could be the reason for the X is when the drilled the holes for the handrail cotton pins.  They drill the holes in one shot strait though the boiler, thus getting two holes at once.  Well the rear drill hole closet to the cab has an extra hole like they misaligned during drilling and redrilled. The extra hole was done before paint as well.

The above states Aluminum Chassis???  Are you positive that it  is Aluminum, compared the standard issue?  The numbering system over the years is a very muddy issue, and there is no 100% definite answer as to why they used the "X" on certain items.  One general consensus was use of different couplers from initial issue, or color change of an item.

If in fact the stated chassis is Aluminum, that could be one possible answer.  Lionel only added the "X", if there was some kind of change from normal production.  Here is a file from another Mag. with how numbers were used.

TeleDoc posted:

BuddyS posted:

It has the magnetraction and aluminum chassis unlike my 2056 which has the steel chassis. 

It also has rear metal truck.

One think that I noticed but don't think could be the reason for the X is when the drilled the holes for the handrail cotton pins.  They drill the holes in one shot strait though the boiler, thus getting two holes at once.  Well the rear drill hole closet to the cab has an extra hole like they misaligned during drilling and redrilled. The extra hole was done before paint as well.

The above states Aluminum Chassis???  Are you positive that it  is Aluminum, compared the standard issue?  The numbering system over the years is a very muddy issue, and there is no 100% definite answer as to why they used the "X" on certain items.  One general consensus was use of different couplers from initial issue, or color change of an item.

If in fact the stated chassis is Aluminum, that could be one possible answer.  Lionel only added the "X", if there was some kind of change from normal production.  Here is a file from another Mag. with how numbers were used.

 

I am positive it is an aluminum chassis(side plates that make the motor and gear assembly). I figured it had to be aluminum due to it having magnetraction.  Have you seen steel chassis 2046's like the 2056 is?

The sides of the 2046 motor should be aluminum.

Due to the fact the only Magnetraction I own is a 736 which is packed away, I questioned the Aluminum.  CW is absolutely correct that the frame/chassis side plates would be Aluminum.  Depending on which issue (1950 or the later ones) would have magnets inserted into the side plate, on front driver.  Couldn't find part number for early version, but later version are 2055-109 & 2055-110 (pole pieces).  If the frame were steel, the whole assembly would be magnetized, and not just the drivers.

Possibly included in a set for Canadian export?

Jon  

 CW is absolutely correct that the frame/chassis side plates would be Aluminum.  

Gee..... thanks.

The X stands for separate sale, vs. packaged in a set. The X indicates that a lock-on was not included in the box.

Chuck, when the 2046 was sold as a separate sale item was there a master carton to keep the engine and tender  together?  

Not always. Some engines did, others not. For example, I don't think I have ever seen a 2037 master carton. Does such a box exist? When sold new back then, I believe Loco's and tenders were shipped in 2 different cases and it was up to the dealer to pair them together.   

The non master carton loco's are the ones with the X on the box.

From what I have learned over the years, the X does indicate a non-standard factory issued product.  I have a couple, and the most prominent being a Wabash AB from 1955, but the shell is a left-over from 1954 with portholes.  Also, the frame and trucks are  factory painter silver, not same as regular factory  issued Wabash F3s.

Jesse     TCA  12-68275

Interesting. But note the X is on separate sale locos again. (No Lock-on included)

 Those Walbash engines are interesting. I would think if the B unit was odd, the B units' box would have the X on the box, not the A unit?  Are you the original owner of the set? With a premium set of engines like those I would be surprised Lionel would send them out with mis-matched trucks.

Wow this topic got hot.  This I do not see anything special about my 2046 I'm going to say its safe to base it on what Chuck says.  Would make sense but you would think you would see a lot more boxes with the X on them???  But I have heard it being what Jesse mentions as well.

Going back to Jesses' 2367 Walbash units, The B unit can't be original Lionel production. Here's why. In 1955 the year those engines were issued, Lionel went to stake on sideframes on the trucks. Lionel never produced a engine in the postwar era with silver stake on sideframes. The last silver siderfame engines would have been for the 2343c Santa Fe B unit in 1954. These trucks use a Screw on sideframe that could not mount to the new 1955 truck assembly. The whole silver truck assembly would have had to be from the 1954 Santa Fe B unit, which was die cast instead of the new truck which is now made from all stamped metal parts. They could fit on the blue Walbash B unit frame. But while Lionel is noted for substituting parts, I doubt Lionel shipped the pair with mis-matched trucks. I would say somewhere in it past history the original black sideframe trucks were replaced. 

The open porthole windows are suspicious also.