Lionel Docksider: Durability? Reliability?

If you are thinking of the 0-6-0 engines Lionel calls a docksider they all have tiny DC motors. The early conventional ones can be had well under 100 bucks. I believe the newest ones with Lionchief have the same motor. 

I doubt either will run on DC without modification but have never tried it.

Pete

If you are talking the 0-6-0 saddle tank locomotives, they are bullet proof.  I have an old conventional one that I've converted to DCC.  It has always pulled a ton of cars for it's size.  The only issue I've had it the couplers.  Due to their long arm length they break or bind easily, but then I ran mine on the floor where kids and cats are active.  Once I replace the coupler and it stays on the layout I expect many many years of good service out of it.  I might also get me one of the new LC+2.0 ones in the future to have two of them. 

The old conventional ones are AC only out of the box.  The LC ones should be DC or AC, but I've never tried to run LC locomotives on DC.  I do not know if the LC+2.0 ones are DC as I have not read the manual yet, but you can do that as Lionel has them online.  They do have DC motors, so you could remove the Lionel electronics and add your own, but opening and putting this little locomotive back together is a huge pain.

The short of it is I have no problem recommending this small scale locomotive to others to get.  My only question to you is why are you running O27 locomotives on DC when they are all AC natively.

I bought one new in 2004. No problems to date.  6-31733. It's the Jones & Laughlin slag train set. http://www.lionel.com/products...train-loco-2-6-31733

 I was raised in Cleveland along the Cuyahoga Valley with the  J&L steel mill and a blast furnace a mile or so away....I'll never forget the distinct smell of mills!  As a kid I'd visit the 'hobos' along the tracks. They had a small shed. First time I saw the Playboy Marilyn Monroe pic was on the wall of the shed.    I know TMI.  Feeling nostalgic I guess.

The couplers are fragile as Sinclair noted, and they are unique to this locomotive. I received my SP&S Docksider with the front coupler broken, apparently from shipping shock. Fixed it with a new coupler from Lionel, no problems after that...

I loved my first docksider so much that I bought a second and I'm now considering a third. They do pull a lot of cars for their size. My only complaint is the whistle sound but that could be upgraded and the value makes it worth it. The couplers can be delicate but I ran mine into the front of a steamer that had no coupler so that's probably got a lot to do with it. I have the replacement but haven't put it on yet. 

I bought a bobber caboose recently. I intend to store a board for TMCC or DCS in that. Then I plan to attach a dynamo to the docksider and run a "power cable" from the dynamo to the bobber so the bobber has power. The conductor will do his freight paperwork (in the 1940s and 50s) in the bobber while switching. The cable will hopefully double as a tether for DCS/TMCC. We'll see! Maybe the minicommander from ERR will fit in the body of the docksider on it's own. 

I can attest to them being bullet proof. Mine decided to take flight one day when I caught it with a shirt sleeve. After a brief 45" trip a slightly bent driver and a dislodged fireman were the only damage. I got lucky as it seems to have landed flat on its side.

The whistle is a bit cheesy.

I purchased the North Pole Central one the first year it was released and it ran for an hour or two at a time on my carpet central Christmas layout under my tree.   It pulled 7 or 8 holiday themed cars at a time with no issues.   I had it for 5 years before I sold is as I decided to run tinplate trains at Christmas.

-Greg

OK,

The Slag Train engine is 031.  The Sante Fe 2174 is O31.   I need O27.

Were there any docksiders made in 027?

I am happy to have one that is AC if they are better than ones with DC motors.  I run my AC engine on DC powered track because it runs much much smoother, particularly at low speeds.

And, I have no idea what a saddle tank locomotive is.  :-)

Thanks for extra info.

Thx, 

I'm not sure if the docksiders are considered O27 or O. But I bet the old postwar 0-4-0 switchers were O27. 

I wonder if it would even be noticeable though given their small size. 

The MTH docksider is an 0-4-0 tank engine.  It's approximately scale-sized (a 1:48 model), but it will run just fine on O27.  Very solid engine, smooth quiet runner and I recommend it, maybe more so than the Lionel model.  Edit:  It has a DC motor (and also a circuit that changes track AC to DC.)  You can easily remove the circuit if you want to run it on straight DC.

I have three Docksider 0-6-0's; one in NYC, one SP&S, and one in Seaboard script. They are great little runners, smoke nicely, and as someone pointed out, their "whistles" sound more like something recorded from Thomas the Tank shipyards. But they are a great bargain and you don't have to blow the whistle, now, do we? Actually, my only report for a DOWNSIDE is the couplers, two of which I've had to replace. I have another on tap in case I need it, but these are solid little performers.

Just some food for thought on 0-6-0 Docksiders...Lionel has several new Lion Chief Plus 2.0 Docksiders somewhere in the pipeline. They were due sometime late summer/early fall I thought. Haven't checked the shipping schedule lately.

Anyway, these appear to be feature rich at a decent price. Dave Olson mentioned (in a thread several months back) redesigned electro-couplers, smoke units, etc.  I've got one on pre-order.

EDIT: Just an addition to say that according to the latest Shipping Schedule these 0-6-0's are showing a November 2020 delivery. So appears that have slipped once again.

Be careful with your ill-advised DC obsession. Many Lionel products have this in their manual, including their docksiders discussed above:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ents/72-8613-250.pdf

If Manny wants to run an engine with a DC motor on DC current the first thing he has to so is disconnect the motor leads from the control board and connect one lead to the pickup roller and one lead to the frame. Also best disconnect the control boards from the rollers and frame or they will be damaged. There is no point in getting a command control engine if a conventional version is available. 

Not sure why anyone who likes three rail trains would want to run them on DC but thats his/her decision. Just be aware whats at stake.

Pete

I'm waiting on two of the new LC+ 2.0 Dockside Switcher 0-6-0T locomotives.  For a little over $200 street price, they look to be a fantastic deal, especially considering where model train prices have been going lately.  They have what is close to universal control capability, conventional, LC Universal Remote, Bluetooth, or TMCC.

Pennsylvania LionChief Plus 2.0 0-6-0T #2295

FEATURES:

• LionChief® Command equipped - Lash-up with similar LC+ 2.0 locomotives in Command Control
• LC+ 2.0 Control - operate with Bluetooth™ using Universal Remote or LionChief® App on your smart device OR via your TMCC/LEGACY®Cab OR conventional transformer
• Die-cast boiler
• ElectroCouplers™
• Crew figures
• RailSounds® equipped!
• 4 Chuffs/Revs
• Volume control via TMCC, Universal Remote or App
• Headlight / Rear light
• Directional Lighting
• Cab Light
• Firebox Flicker
• Fan-driven main smoke
• Speed Control

Just to further expound upon @Norton's train of thought above:

Just because a locomotive is equipped with a DC can motor does not mean the locomotive as a whole is designed or able to be powered by DC on the rails. TMCC and Legacy Command systems CANNOT operate on DC at all. Additionally, universal motors run warmer on DC. Why put the extra thermal strain on the motor? It could end up that the cost of wrecking one locomotive outweighs the cost of properly powering your setup with AC, the standard of over a century of 3 rail.

@bmoran4, @Norton, The issue of DC current to the track is not so clear cut. Currently all the LionChief train sets are listed by Lionel as being able to run on either AC or DC current.

I don't know... Lionel's catalog descriptions are not clear on this, but aren't the wall warts that come with the train sets DC powered? I looked in the 2016 catalog and there's no mention as to whether the wall warts put out AC or DC. Most wall warts I've ever seen put out DC current.

During the 1990's most Lionel train sets (and K-Line train sets) were advertised as being able to run on AC or DC current. But as bmoran4 correctly pointed out, you do need to look at a specific locomotive's instructions to know whether or not DC is safe for that particular locomotive. I know some of the engines that came with Lionel's "Trainsounds" have a warning to not use DC. 

But it is certainly not clear cut anymore. Some products have been made with DC capacity and some have not. As a general rule, the Lionel engines that will run on DC say "AC/DC operation" in the catalog.

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I do have the option of running my layout on AC or DC current, which I have done because I have a bunch of non-command smaller, low cost engines with no sound boards (I have sounds that are on the layout, not on specific engines). By removing circuit board reverse units out of the small engines and adding additional weight, these engines run MUCH better and will pull more than 2-3 cars.

We've seen posts where guys have a filed circuit board and it is suggest that they wire in a rectifier and run the engine forward only. In my thinking, if I'm going to do that, well I'd rather have a DC power source and be able to run the engine forward and reverse at least.

But as with anything else in life, you make choices. I know I am not going to be running larger engines, or engines with command of any kind. I've made a decision that works for me just fine.

It will be VERY interesting to see if the new LC+ 2.0 stuff will run on DC, I wonder if anyone has tried it with some of the early releases?

@brianel_k-lineguy, you make a great point that the Lionel may not do the best job of highlighting what is and isn't DC compatible and that there are many nuances to the DC discussion. However, I ask you to find anything in Lionel's, Marx's, Ives', MTH's or any other major 3 rail O gauge lineup (beyond the rare outlier DC starter sets from ~40 years ago) that is NOT AC compatible.