Lionel Trains Company Store

Would appreciate one of our NC Forumites to attend and take some pictures of the new store.

Would the decision to open such a new store, at that specific location, be indicative of a significant market of model railroaders in that area? If so, to what factors might we attribute such a population? Such information, it would seem to me, might be valuable for smaller vendors and merchants of "cottage-industry" handmade products to be made aware, IMO.

FrankM

Layout Refinements

"Would the decision to open such a new store, at that specific location, be indicative of a significant market of model railroaders in that area?"

I don't believe that was the rationale.  It's a mall that sees 17 million people a year visiting.  This is an experiment in opening a combined store/layout display to encourage people to consider the hobby and see what is possible.  Suspect there will be more than one layout, and focused at least in part on children. Should be interesting to see what they've come up with in terms of displays/operating features for those who wander in.

Another consideration is the Lionel/Nascar diecast business. I visited the Performance Drive store a couple of months ago and a significant part of the store was devoted to the Nascar diecast business, keep in mind this is ground zero of Nascar Racing. The old store was behind Charlotte Motor Speedway and you had to be looking for it, there was not any other retair business nearby.

Moonson posted:

Would the decision to open such a new store, at that specific location, be indicative of a significant market of model railroaders in that area? If so, to what factors might we attribute such a population? Such information, it would seem to me, might be valuable for smaller vendors and merchants of "cottage-industry" handmade products to be made aware, IMO.

FrankM

Layout Refinements

Its more like North Carolina is a retirees paradise  Believe thats the targeted audience

bluelinec4 posted:

Moonson posted:

Would the decision to open such a new store, at that specific location, be indicative of a significant market of model railroaders in that area? If so, to what factors might we attribute such a population? Such information, it would seem to me, might be valuable for smaller vendors and merchants of "cottage-industry" handmade products to be made aware, IMO.

FrankM

Layout Refinements

Its more like North Carolina is a retirees paradise  Believe thats the targeted audience

No, that’s not the target. Lionel reportedly is testing to see if this store format is viable enough to do nationally.

So this store won’t be for dedicated hobbyists or old guys. It will be for families and kids. My guess is that it will be filled with lots of train sets, Polar Express products, LionChief Plus locomotives and maybe a sampling of Lionel freight and passenger cars.

At $50 a square foot, mall retail space requires frequent turnover of merchandise for a store to be considered successful. So the stock has to have broad appeal — certainly not the hobbyists who complain about a model’s prototypical accuracy for a particular railroad or what couplers are used in freight cars.

Jim R. posted:

bluelinec4 posted:

Moonson posted:

Would the decision to open such a new store, at that specific location, be indicative of a significant market of model railroaders in that area? If so, to what factors might we attribute such a population? Such information, it would seem to me, might be valuable for smaller vendors and merchants of "cottage-industry" handmade products to be made aware, IMO.

FrankM

Layout Refinements

Its more like North Carolina is a retirees paradise  Believe thats the targeted audience

No, that’s not the target. Lionel reportedly is testing to see if this store format is viable enough to do nationally.

So this store won’t be for dedicated hobbyists or old guys. It will be for families and kids. My guess is that it will be filled with lots of train sets, Polar Express products, LionChief Plus locomotives and maybe a sampling of Lionel freight and passenger cars.

At $50 a square foot, mall retail space requires frequent turnover of merchandise for a store to be considered successful. So the stock has to have broad appeal — certainly not the hobbyists who complain about a model’s prototypical accuracy for a particular railroad or what couplers are used in freight cars.

 Like the Great American Train Store?? I sincerely hope they did their research to understand why they failed so they dont repeat the same mistakes. Sean from Charlotte use to work at one.  Maybe he will chime in and give us an idea what caused great American Train Store to fail. 

Scott Smith

September 24th is probably a good date to open the store, knowing that they are possibly going to get a large number of returns for the incorrect paint schemes on the latest releases, which in turn will enable them to push them all back out quickly at blow out prices.

What is Lionel's Ten Year Plan & Objectives?

To put all the local hobby shops and on-line hobby shops out of business and take over all retail sales of Lionel Trains. L.L.C.

I drive a Ford F150 • The Ford Motor Co., sells their vehicles only through their dealer network. I suggest Lionel keep doing the same. 

Gary 

I thought they picked the Concord Mills mall because it was close to their facility in Concord, NC. According to Google maps, they are 12 minutes apart.
It is a good sized mall that should see lots of foot traffic.

It is also close to the Charlotte Motor Speedway.

Good luck to the folks at Lionel.

(Wasn't there a thread on this topic just a few weeks ago?)

Moonson posted:

Would the decision to open such a new store, at that specific location, be indicative of a significant market of model railroaders in that area? If so, to what factors might we attribute such a population? Such information, it would seem to me, might be valuable for smaller vendors and merchants of "cottage-industry" handmade products to be made aware, IMO.

FrankM

Layout Refinements

Frank, a very unlikely supposition.  I moved to Charlotte NC Oct. 1978 from NE Ohio.  Then moved north to the Spencer/Salisbury area 2000/2001.

During the earlier years in Charlotte I/we had at least 4 or 5 1005% toy train dealers.  And probably another 8 hobby shops.   As of 8/10-years ago they were ALL closed up and gone.  And has not been any since.

Now the closest Toy Train Shop is 50-miles north in Spencer across from the NCTM.  The next closest is another 30-mile north in Winston Salem.

Now I have known almost all these owners.  In Charlotte the desire for toy trains just all but totally dried up.

More likely they chose Concord Mills because it is a stones throw from their HD in Concord.

And oh by the way the shops in Spencer and Winston buy Lionel trains  they CANNOT get them from Concord.  They have to get them from distributors hundreds of miles away!

Ron

I think Lionel opening up stores to sell Lionel trains is a big mistake. If they just sell trains and diecast then it is a huge mistake. Diecast cars and the like is on the down side from years ago and trains are mostly a older generational hobby. Yea they may sell some sets  but are the willing to undercut there dealer network and the local hobby shop? Plus pricing or advertising at MSRP would kill any chance they had for success.

Dave

Just more gloom and doom speculation with no facts!

Tell me how many people pack their kids in the car and go to a hobby shop compared going to a mall? Does a hobby shop rate 17,000 in foot traffic?  Any time kids and parents can be exposed to trains is a good thing for the hobby especially when they can interact with them!

David,with your attitude I see why this hobby is a older generalized hobby.

Doug

If they just sell trains and diecast then it is a huge mistake.

I'd think they'd sell MegaTracks too.

If they attempt to sell everything at full list price, like they did with those Christmas-time in-mall "pop-up" stores 8-10 years ago... they are going to scare the wits out of newbie families who see new Lionel train sets going for $400+, $80 boxcars & $8 track pieces.

trnluvr posted:

Just more gloom and doom speculation with no facts!

Tell me how many people pack their kids in the car and go to a hobby shop compared going to a mall? Does a hobby shop rate 17,000 in foot traffic?  Any time kids and parents can be exposed to trains is a good thing for the hobby especially when they can interact with them!

David,with your attitude I see why this hobby is a older generalized hobby.

Doug

The average age for buyers of trains is somewhere around 57-60 years old. Also when was the last time you were ever in a mall. How many hobby shops have you seen?

50% of malls will be closed in ten years. 

I have not gone to a mall in many years, I shop mostly online, why go to a mall? 

Btw my post was an OPINION, nothing more.  

Dave

I was just at the 1 mall we have in my area a few days ago and it was pretty busy. When the mall opened there were 2 hobby shops one being K-B the other one I forget the name. Ok,it's your opinion based on speculation of what prices maybe or what they are going to carry then. Why not wait till the store opens and people on here go to it that live around there and tell us the particulars and then make a decision or opinion.

Doug

Well, if this is where the store's going to be...

...they'll be competing with a Lego Store, a Game Stop and I'm sure rent ain't cheap.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Given the ways I see some kids (when they're brought along) act up at my LHS, it will be an adventure for the staff.

Rusty

Yup, Concord Mills.  From what I have read it is the largest tourist attraction in NC and attracts 17,000,000 visitors a year.  That is potentially huge exposure!  I hope they do well in this venture.

not sure where the closest hobby shop is to the new store, but given it is only a few miles away from where their old store was, I doubt this new store will impact significantly on any local shop compared to the old store.

For what it's worth, I saw my first Lionel train set in a Toys R Us. We all know what happened to that chain so this could be exciting. I was really into trains so I also visited hobby shops as well but that was always a special trip my parents made for me. The mall is more frequented and popular and if Lionel is going to gain a larger audience this idea is a no brainer. Let's face it the younger generation doesn't even know what a hobby store is. Sad but true.

Let's stay positive and hope this is a kick off for another generation of model railroaders. If not, I'm sure it won't be the end of Lionel for us. Remember it wasn't Lionel, MTH, Atlas, etc. who made the interest in this hobby diminish in the first place but glad to see the effort is being made to expose it to the masses. Their prices don't help but because we have a passion for our hobby we pay.

People pay for what they want and when there are more options decisions are made. There are negatives and positives to any efforts made to "expand" but we as the core group should be Lionel's number one cheerleaders. Who knows this could spark the whole idea of there actually being toy stores in malls again but who am I, a poor poor optimist. Just my thoughts not a science. 

GO LIONEL!!!

Dave

I live about 30 miles from this mall.  The next nearest hobby store that sells trains is about 40 miles.  I don't think that it will be much competition for that store.  Too far apart!

Lived in Raleigh 8 months looked in vain for hobby shops(1), several dead malls in the area and model railroading was not a booming business.  I think it is a stupid business decision but time will tell.

Jim R. posted:

bluelinec4 posted:

Moonson posted:

Would the decision to open such a new store, at that specific location, be indicative of a significant market of model railroaders in that area? If so, to what factors might we attribute such a population? Such information, it would seem to me, might be valuable for smaller vendors and merchants of "cottage-industry" handmade products to be made aware, IMO.

FrankM

Layout Refinements

Its more like North Carolina is a retirees paradise  Believe thats the targeted audience

No, that’s not the target. Lionel reportedly is testing to see if this store format is viable enough to do nationally.

So this store won’t be for dedicated hobbyists or old guys. It will be for families and kids. My guess is that it will be filled with lots of train sets, Polar Express products, LionChief Plus locomotives and maybe a sampling of Lionel freight and passenger cars.

At $50 a square foot, mall retail space requires frequent turnover of merchandise for a store to be considered successful. So the stock has to have broad appeal — certainly not the hobbyists who complain about a model’s prototypical accuracy for a particular railroad or what couplers are used in freight cars.

My reply was facetious.  It was a joke

I have been to the new Lionel Store in the Concord Mills Mall.  The store is nice, it's big, and it is bright.  Yes there are trains running on layouts, and there is allot of those Orange and white boxes in inventory.  Yes everything I saw was full retail price.

If you are looking for the Blue and Yellow boxes, call Charles Ro or Nicholas Smith, or Trainworld.  

The day I was there, about a month ago, there was one S gauge Polar Express set, a few pieces of track and a couple of switches on one lonely American Flyer rack.

I spoke to the manager and asked about American Flyer inventory.  He told me that it wasn't very popular so they didn't have any room for it yet.  But he did say they might get some in for the holidays.

I can not imagine why any business would design and build a brand new 5,000 square foot store without a plan for marketing one of their product lines. 

Aflyer

C W Burfle posted:

If they just sell trains and diecast then it is a huge mistake.

I'd think they'd sell MegaTracks too.

I thought Lionel sold the Mega Tracks business?

Aflyer posted:

C W Burfle posted:

If they just sell trains and diecast then it is a huge mistake.

I'd think they'd sell MegaTracks too.

I thought Lionel sold the Mega Tracks business?

Uh. Where did you hear or read that?

On the website now. 

http://www.lionel.com/products...set-red-car-7-20004/

Aflyer posted:

I spoke to the manager and asked about American Flyer inventory.  He told me that it wasn't very popular so they didn't have any room for it yet.  But he did say they might get some in for the holidays.

I can not imagine why any business would design and build a brand new 5,000 square foot store without a plan for marketing one of their product lines. 

Aflyer

Because Lionel knows exactly what its American Flyer sales are and how poorly the line would sell in a mass-market environment.

I think that Lionel is for sure trying to "test" something by opening a retail store.  They know very well that their business historically WAS based on sales by retail hobby shops- local hobby shops (LHS).  They might also believe that the decline of the hobby shops was/is an issue of the age of the owners, and that the expansion of the hobby business means that the LHS cannot stock items that take a lot of room, cost a lot in inventory, and are sold mainly (today) to an older market.  As well, Sears, JC Penney, and almost every other retail chain that (once) sold their train sets especially during Christmas season, are losing market share, and that the toy specialists (ToysRUs) are disappearing.  

We hobbyists are likely not what Lionel sees at the way to reach a younger market, and that someone has to build the train market from the ground up, not from the serious hobbyists down.  If someone cannot do that, then likely the whole hobby is doomed.

If Lionel finds that sales in Concord continue AFTER Christmas, then that would verify their theories about model railroading (still viable), their product (attractive) their price point (in range of the target market).  

So, why not try it, close to Lionel HQ, and "done the right way"??  And who better than Lionel??

I wish them the best- it can only be good for all of us. 

From Lionel's web site about RTR train sets:

THE BEST WAY TO BEGIN YOUR JOURNEY INTO MODEL RAILROADING!

Jim R. posted:

Aflyer posted:

I spoke to the manager and asked about American Flyer inventory.  He told me that it wasn't very popular so they didn't have any room for it yet.  But he did say they might get some in for the holidays.

I can not imagine why any business would design and build a brand new 5,000 square foot store without a plan for marketing one of their product lines. 

Aflyer

Because Lionel knows exactly what its American Flyer sales are and how poorly the line would sell in a mass-market environment.

Jim R,

I run S gauge trains at 10 to 12 shows every year, we have lots of potential new train enthusiasts asking where they can get S gauge.  

Part of the problem people have with entering the S gauge hobby is:  "where can we find this stuff".  And I can pretty much guarantee if people can't see it they won't buy it.

This hobby is supported by discretionary spending.  And seeing touching and feeling the product has a lot to do with sales in my humble opinion.

If the new store is an experiment as others have suggested, it is not an experiment in testing the market for new S gauge followers.

I have sent an email that has made it to the CEO's desk.  We will see if anything changes in the Concord inventory.

Aflyer

Jim R. posted:

Aflyer posted:

C W Burfle posted:

If they just sell trains and diecast then it is a huge mistake.

I'd think they'd sell MegaTracks too.

I thought Lionel sold the Mega Tracks business?

Uh. Where did you hear or read that?

On the website now. 

http://www.lionel.com/products...set-red-car-7-20004/

Jim R,

I actually heard it from a Lionel employee.  But I can not verify it as accurate, which is why I said "I think".

ANY positive public immersion into our hobby should be welcome! YOU GO, LIONEL!

Aflyer posted:

Jim R. posted:

Aflyer posted:

C W Burfle posted:

If they just sell trains and diecast then it is a huge mistake.

I'd think they'd sell MegaTracks too.

I thought Lionel sold the Mega Tracks business?

Uh. Where did you hear or read that?

On the website now. 

http://www.lionel.com/products...set-red-car-7-20004/

Jim R,

I actually heard it from a Lionel employee.  But I can not verify it as accurate, which is why I said "I think".

Interesting. Wouldn’t be surprised, since sales have reportedly been less-than-satisfactory from the company’s standpoint.