MTH Passenger Cars Kill TIU Signal

Put a 22uh choke in the power leads from the center roller. 

Thank you.  Would installing LED lighting also solve the problem?  If I open them up I might feel obliged to fill with people and upgrade to LED lighting.  (Or NOT.  I would really rather spend that time running trains.)  In the meantime I will order the chokes.

Well, if you use my LED lighting modules it'll solve it, they have the 22uh choke built in.

LED Lighting Regulator

FWIW, for incandescent bulbs, you'll need chokes that have at least a 1/2A rating, for LED's, obviously much less.  I think the little ones I use on my lighting board are 255ma, many times what it needed for those.

John does your led kit include the regulator or do I need order them as well?

I'm confused, are there only certain passenger cars that cause this impact that require modification?  

@Dillonm posted:

John does your led kit include the regulator or do I need order them as well?

 The Passenger Car LED Lighting Kit includes everything you need to light two cars, including the regulator boards.

@SteveMa posted:

I'm confused, are there only certain passenger cars that cause this impact that require modification?  

 Usually, it's circuitry in the car with capacitors across the power that degrade the DCS signal.  Without knowing specifics of the cars, it's hard to say why these cars affect the signal.

Truthfully, almost anything on the tracks has an effect on the DCS signal, some car and engine configurations just impact the signal worse than other configurations.

Thank You just ordered 2 sets.

John, is there a video that would show the installation of your lights in a pass car? Also - is there a known list of passenger cars that are subject to messing up the DCS signal worse than others?

Thank you

Paul

Paul, I've never done a video, but I've posted a number of threads here on passenger car lighting with lots of pictures.  The actual process is pretty simple, but it is dependent on the specific make/model of passenger car.  Obviously, things like dome cars, multi-level cars, and observation cars with extra markers, taillights, or lighted drumheads require extra wiring.

I'm aware of no definitive list of passenger cars that degrade DCS signals.  If one exists, it's news to me.

Hi John, thanks for your quick reply. I need to just dive into a car but not sure which passenger consist I should prioritze for the upgrade? My K-Line BlackBonnet 18",  or my MTH Amtrak Superliners, or maybe something else that is a known issue???

I guess I'll start with the K-Line set and go from there. Thank you.

Paul

The TIU Signal Tester used to identify the "trouble" cars was built from a kit designed by gunrunnerjohn and rtr12.  The tester is designed for use on the TIU output, not at the track.  It does give me a clue to the "trouble" passenger cars by removing all lighted cars from the consist (signal returned) and checking on track with consist one at a time and checking signal each time.  Three of the seven cars had no effect on the signal.  Four of the cars killed the signal.

I'll be interested in what you find that's different in the cars that kill the signal over the cars that don't.

FWIW, if I go to the trouble of opening the car up, it usually gets LED lighting.  For typical MTH Premier coaches, I can do one of those in 15 minutes, it's a really quick job.  It takes a little longer for dome, double decker cars, or observation cars with extra exterior lights.

This should not even be a question- by all means, upgrade to LED lighting! I upgraded my 10 K-Line Superliner cars to LEDs. Before, all 10 plus 2 MTH Genesis locomotives would draw almost 8 amps upon start-up- now with the LED conversions to the 10 cars, everything pulls 1.6 amps upon start-up, and I can run the train at 65 Scale MPH at 2.9 amps. Not to mention the awesome look LEDs have inside the cars vs. conventional lighting. And while you're at it, add some automotive tint to the window film of the cars.

The lighting does look much more realistic when it's evenly distributed instead of just a few bulbs.  Having the ability to adjust the intensity is a big plus as well, many factory cars look way too bright for me.

Did I forget to mention that the LED upgrade also eliminates the flickering of the lights?

Passenger car LED lighting (Again)

MTH Amtrak Superliner LED Upgrade in Pictures

MTH Premier Woodside LED Lighting Fix

LED Lighting Upgrade for MTH Full Dome Car

Is DCS signal loss as a result of incandescent bulbs new or is there something unique to the circuit board's of these MTH premier cars?  I recall the need for the inline choke but IIRC that was limited to passenger car incandescent to LED light conversions.  Also in the early years of DCS layout wiring and star pattern wiring troubleshooting, didn't the use of incandescents - either 1 bulb across the TIU output or the use of a lighted passenger car - improve signal quality?

@Keystone posted:

Is DCS signal loss as a result of incandescent bulbs new or is there something unique to the circuit board's of these MTH premier cars?

The $64,000 question.  I'm curious as well what is making them kill the DCS signal.  We'll know when she opens them up.

@Susan Deats posted:

When my 4014 MTH Big Boy was acting up I got out my Signal Tester and learned four out of seven MTH 70' passenger cars kill the DCS TIU signal in my UP Steam excursion consist.  Why?

The cars are Vista Dome #7004 from Set 20-65116, Coach #5437 from Set 20-65116, Coach #5488 similar to #5437 (unknown MTH set or number), and Potrero Observation from Set 20-65227.  The first three were cataloged in 2007 probably and the Observation car in 2013.

What must be done to have these cars in my DCS consist?

First, I want to express my empathy for Susan.  This is a particularly bizarre and regrettable situation. 

But I just have to ask:  Does anyone else reading this thread feel gobsmacked?        

In what alternate universe do two products from the same company, ostensibly from the same engineering department, interfere with the workings of each other?  And more importantly, we blithely:

1. Accept that as "normal"
2. Discuss ways in which we (not them) can fix the problem

Sorry, but "dumbfounded" is too trivial a word for this situation.

If I had been responsible for such a situation, it's likely I would have died from shame and embarrassment by now.  Of course, the response from those responsible is "crickets".

George

George, maybe that's why MTH is closing their doors.