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Wick Moorman and Bennett Levin are the main drivers here. They have six P70 coaches and at least one B60 baggage car that will be used as a "rolling museum" of sorts. Privately funded and they are converting to roller bearings. Awesome news.
Well it made trains news wire so there’s something to it
I managed to watch the stream on Facebook before it was deleted, along with typed summary - also deleted because of Trains picking up the story; and I will admit I chuckled when the presenter said "Amtrak can kiss it!" because apparently the group will either find a legislative route for insurance (It is the state locomotive after all), or that they will work directly with NS since they wont be carrying passengers.
I read that there is talk of the engine getting a welded boiler and roller bearings on the axles. What happened to the desire to keep the engine "100% authentic?"
Stuart
Stuart posted:I read that there is talk of the engine getting a welded boiler and roller bearings on the axles. What happened to the desire to keep the engine "100% authentic?"
Stuart
That was the goal of the current management of the Altoona RR Museum. Obviously, clearer heads prevailed when the big spenders are now willing to make the locomotive FRA compliant, as well as main line operational.
Stuart posted:I read that there is talk of the engine getting a welded boiler and roller bearings on the axles. What happened to the desire to keep the engine "100% authentic?"
Stuart
Here is what I got from the presentation. - The boiler is only a component, and would not pass FRA safety standards. The roller bearing will be designed using original Timken/PRR blueprints from when several K4's were fitted with rollers as an experiment, and the frame will not need to be modified for them to be fitted.
From the Fans of PRR K4 1361 facebook page.
To those who were able to see today's announcement, you have a glimpse into the future of 1361. Bennett Levin and Wick Moorman, cooperatively with the Railroaders Memorial Museum, have a plan in the works to facilitate the return of 1361 to the high iron. An official announcement will be made when a finalized agreement has been reached. As always, thank you all for your support! Your enthusiasm and refusal to give up on us speaks volumes.
@Hot Water Do you envision that PTC will be installed on this locomotive alongside the other upgrades?
Maxrailroad posted:@Hot Water Do you envision that PTC will be installed on this locomotive alongside the other upgrades?
Yes, of course it will have to have PTC in order to operate on main line railroad systems that are equipped with PTC.
Hot Water posted:Maxrailroad posted:@Hot Water Do you envision that PTC will be installed on this locomotive alongside the other upgrades?
Yes, of course it will have to have PTC in order to operate on main line railroad systems that are equipped with PTC.
Thanks for the incite! I look forward to seeing this engine in the future, even though it’s probably going to be finished in another 10 years
Maxrailroad posted:Hot Water posted:Maxrailroad posted:@Hot Water Do you envision that PTC will be installed on this locomotive alongside the other upgrades?
Yes, of course it will have to have PTC in order to operate on main line railroad systems that are equipped with PTC.
Thanks for the incite! I look forward to seeing this engine in the future, even though it’s probably going to be finished in another 10 years
With those two high level individuals involved, and the Altoona Railroader's Museum management out of the control of 1361, it shouldn't really take that long. Where it will operate, might be a whole different story.
Hot Water posted:Maxrailroad posted:Hot Water posted:Maxrailroad posted:@Hot Water Do you envision that PTC will be installed on this locomotive alongside the other upgrades?
Yes, of course it will have to have PTC in order to operate on main line railroad systems that are equipped with PTC.
Thanks for the incite! I look forward to seeing this engine in the future, even though it’s probably going to be finished in another 10 years
With those two high level individuals involved, and the Altoona Railroader's Museum management out of the control of 1361, it shouldn't really take that long. Where it will operate, might be a whole different story.
I hope so! This would be a must see!
Maxrailroad posted:Thanks for the incite! I look forward to seeing this engine in the future, even though it’s probably going to be finished in another 10 years
By all reports, although she is in pieces, most of the big work was completed before she was mothballed. The only real hurdle that I know of would be the boiler. I think with proper funding, having her operational in 3-4 years is very realistic.
Always questions. The drivers were complete, to install roller bearings, I would assume, all this work has to be re-done. A new boiler/fire box is an interesting approach, you would hope, a retro-fit boiler, the same shape, is acceptable to the FRA, if not it's another dream, IMO. May be pre-approved engineered drawings of the new fire box/boiler, but there is a degree of responsibility associated with anything like this, again IMO. Always questions.
Hot Water posted:With those two high level individuals involved, and the Altoona Railroader's Museum management out of the control of 1361, it shouldn't really take that long. Where it will operate, might be a whole different story.
With Moorman on board, she will probably be granted the same rights as 765 - travel over NS rail but not allowed to carry passengers. The actual excursions will be held on the shortlines. In the eastern half of the state, I expect (hope) to see a lot of action on the R&N and the Pocono Main.
This is great news, a great surprise!
I am very excited, and cant wait to see an operational 1361, hear it, smell it, and get a ride!
Hot Water posted:Maxrailroad posted:@Hot Water Do you envision that PTC will be installed on this locomotive alongside the other upgrades?
Yes, of course it will have to have PTC in order to operate on main line railroad systems that are equipped with PTC.
Well If Lionel decides to issue this loco, they will be correct after all with the crew chatter.... and possibly Roller Bearing tender wheels.
645 posted:Just saw this on another forum and looks like there may be hope for PRR 1361 to operate again yet!
PRR 1361 to be restored for service?
New thread with a little more information that was just posted:
I thought the loco was going to "New Hope" Pa. as in New Hope and Ivyland RR after reading that title.
Hope they run it on the NS Lurgan branch, half mile from where I live.
Love the title of this thread. Episode IV for 1361 ... A New Hope.
After reading yesterday who the new players were, I got excited about this project for the first time in a long time.
How about running the display train with the two E units to see if the display concept would work. With two cab units there would be less concerns about turning the train. Some costs for PTC , but the E's are ready to run NOW!
If they're adding roller bearings, they may want to consider talking to Timken. Timken is trying out roller bearings meant specifically for steam locomotives on Tornado. The A1 Trust gets free bearings so long as Timken is allowed to road test their bearings on Tornado. In the interest of saving money that might be a good idea.
GenesisFan99 posted:If they're adding roller bearings, they may want to consider talking to Timken. Timken is trying out roller bearings meant specifically for steam locomotives on Tornado. The A1 Trust gets free bearings so long as Timken is allowed to road test their bearings on Tornado. In the interest of saving money that might be a good idea.
The price of the roller bearings themselves is peanuts, compared the manufacture of the cannon housings that retain/enclose each roller bearing assembly on each wheel/axle assembly. Then there is the extensive machining costs involved with modifying the main locomotive frame required to accept the complete roller bearing wheel/axle assembly.
I, along with two of my former compadres on the NKP 765 crew, had the opportunity to have lunch with Wick Moorman in Washington over a year ago. He told us about these plans then, with the promise to keep it quiet, of course.
This has been in the works for a long time and has been well planned. With these two men heading up this effort, the 1361 finally has a real chance to run again.
For those of you concerned about the “historical fabric” of this locomotive, you must understand one important thing. You cannot maintain the historical fabric of this early 20th century locomotive and also make it compliant with the current rules. So you have a choice. Maintain the historical fabric and stuff and mount it someplace or make the changes necessary to make it compliant with the rules and run it.
The second option makes the most sense to me.
Running steam locos were constantly being redesigned, modified and improved so why not now ?? Silly. Good news for all of us.
Considering how long the K4 ran in revenue service, updating the locomotive where necessary to improve performance and meet regulations is really in the true spirit of the PRR.
By the mid 50's no two K4's looked alike anyway with all the variations that were added over the years on both an experimental and permanent basis.
I just love these people that are obsessed with "historic fabric" bs. Luckily, we have "destroyed the historic fabric" of SP 4449, by upgrading the engine truck, the trailing truck, and all the tender trucks to roller bearings, plus the addition of circulators inside the firebox. As a result, of those improvements, we have been many, many, many thousands of miles on the former SP main lines (Portland, OR to New Orleans and back in 1984), as well as on the BNSF main lines (Portland, OR to Chicago, IL and back for Train Festival in Michigan in 2009).
Thats because 4449 is now totally unrecognizable due to the upgrades.
Why ruin this authentic piece of American railroad history with roller bearings?
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RickO posted:Thats because 4449 is now totally unrecognizable due to the upgrades.
Why ruin this authentic piece of American railroad history with roller bearings?
So we can preserve history more by making it operational. I thought we covered this above...
I think RickO is being sarcastic.
smd4 posted:I think RickO is being sarcastic.
Exactly. Since the photo he attached is just the 1361 boiler sitting on a flatcar. How "historic" is THAT????
Hot Water posted:GenesisFan99 posted:If they're adding roller bearings, they may want to consider talking to Timken. Timken is trying out roller bearings meant specifically for steam locomotives on Tornado. The A1 Trust gets free bearings so long as Timken is allowed to road test their bearings on Tornado. In the interest of saving money that might be a good idea.
The price of the roller bearings themselves is peanuts, compared the manufacture of the cannon housings that retain/enclose each roller bearing assembly on each wheel/axle assembly. Then there is the extensive machining costs involved with modifying the main locomotive frame required to accept the complete roller bearing wheel/axle assembly.
I hadn't thought of that, I'm sure it is very expensive. Thanks for the insight Hot Water.
GenesisFan99 posted:Hot Water posted:GenesisFan99 posted:If they're adding roller bearings, they may want to consider talking to Timken. Timken is trying out roller bearings meant specifically for steam locomotives on Tornado. The A1 Trust gets free bearings so long as Timken is allowed to road test their bearings on Tornado. In the interest of saving money that might be a good idea.
The price of the roller bearings themselves is peanuts, compared the manufacture of the cannon housings that retain/enclose each roller bearing assembly on each wheel/axle assembly. Then there is the extensive machining costs involved with modifying the main locomotive frame required to accept the complete roller bearing wheel/axle assembly.
I hadn't thought of that, I'm sure it is very expensive. Thanks for the insight Hot Water.
Yet, you are planning to construct a "new" New York Central 4-8-4, from scratch???????
Also the 4449 was in AFT and BNSF liveries at one time. Plus had emergency repairs with fire department hoses. These are not historic things.
Actually, even if the 1361 gets a new boiler, is it not the "same" locomotive because they are using the same frame?
Supposedly they will not have to modify the frame, at least not extensively.
Dominic Mazoch posted:Also the 4449 was in AFT and BNSF liveries at one time. Plus had emergency repairs with fire department hoses.
What????
These are not historic things.
Actually, even if the 1361 gets a new boiler, is it not the "same" locomotive because they are using the same frame?
Montclaire posted:Supposedly they will not have to modify the frame, at least not extensively.
Yup; from the original facebook summary (it was taken down) and the presentation - apparently they will be using original PRR / Timken designs that were used on a few other K4's to retrofit them with the roller bearings that did not require the modification of the frame in any way.
Hot Water posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:Also the 4449 was in AFT and BNSF liveries at one time. Plus had emergency repairs with fire department hoses.
What????
These are not historic things.
Actually, even if the 1361 gets a new boiler, is it not the "same" locomotive because they are using the same frame?
The 1984 separation near Sanderson TX, and the emergency repain.
