Overwhelmed

Howdy!  And you know you need what you think you need!! LOL    Ive only been involved for a bit over a year.  I like the Lion Chief but they are entry level.  Now the Lion Chief Plus??  Those are pretty cool!   Adjustable volume, speed control, bigger flywheel motors, pretty good sound, fan driven smoke, operating electro couplers, and pretty fair detail.  And you don't need to buy a control system!   Park a Lion Chief or Plus and run a conventional engine!  Run as many LC-LCP engines as you choose at the same time (with enough power).   I think the Bluetooth is the way of the future.   All that control.  No control system!  I see why folks with lots of money in control systems don't like LC or LC+.    I watched a YouTube video on Eric's Trains channel and it sold me on them!  Now just to see how they last.  And how much it costs to fix them when they do break (burn a board or sound card) .. BUT you have all that in the Legacy, Williams, and MTH engines with control also! 

Jim 

I switched from HO to O 3r in early 1990's.......and as of this week I learned the hard way some MTH locos do NOT work with MTH transformers!!!! Throw in all the brands  of track,  toy, semi scale and scale sized equipment. So even after being a model railroader for well over 55 years I am still figuring things out. I don't think there is a one source cover it all way to learn O 3r.  Kinda trail by fire.....but most of the folks here will be happy to help....a few others may tell you to do your own research. Jump in and hang on......have fun.  

Go all in and get Legacy.  It isn't that complicated.  

Welcome, Alan, and get ready for the deluge of opinions!  Quickly stated, mine are (if within budget): get a decent power supply, a legacy kit with a powermaster (to enable control of conventional locos), and perhaps a lionchief plus locomotive or set for play value. In fact, you may wish to start with the LC+ as it's incredibly simple, less expensive, and fun to use. (One note: you cannot use Legacy to control a LC locomotive--you need to use the dedicated remote that comes with the locomotive.)  I am particularly fond of the camelback since it is of scale size but not too large, and they run great. I also run MTH's DCS system now too, but am happy with the path I took starting with legacy first (backward compatible with TMCC). My personal opinion, I found the Legacy system to be less finicky, as well as easier to run and install (get ready for many impassioned opinions on that!). If cross-manufacture compatibility is important to you now, start with DCS since you can run some (but not all) legacy features with it. If you do that, make sure to purchase the DCS Companion Book by Barry Broskowitz--most folks here consider that an essential reference, and Barry is a most helpful & respected resource here on the forum.

Jim

AMCDave posted:

I switched from HO to O 3r in early 1990's.......and as of this week I learned the hard way some MTH locos do NOT work with MTH transformers!!!! Throw in all the brands  of track,  toy, semi scale and scale sized equipment. So even after being a model railroader for well over 55 years I am still figuring things out. I don't think there is a one source cover it all way to learn O 3r.  Kinda trail by fire.....but most of the folks here will be happy to help....a few others may tell you to do your own research. Jump in and hang on......have fun.  

I was shocked to see what some have said about that issue!  And you hit the nail on the head.   Go buy a new car to find out the key they give you doesn't work.  Just like my local hobby shop guy tells me they have an ongoing issue with the tether connecting to tender to the engine.  Amazing. 

Jim 

Wow!  I do suggest that you only have begun to scratch the surface.   My story is similar to yours - only I was able to recover my old lionel stuff some 25 years later as I knew the person to whom my dad sold it.  I did decide to get back into it in a rather big way.  My simple advice to you since you do not seem to be in a hurry is to follow this forum for a while and to continue to read OGR (I assume you are doing so).  Then decide how big or how small you intend to go.   You can invest in ready-to-run sets by MTH or Lionel if you go on the smaller side or go big into “scale” equipment by MTH, Atlas, Lionel, etc.  I chose MTH because in my opinion they were more advanced at the time - if you are going big, I would suggest you include the MTH DCS system in your investigation.  There are pros and cons to all choices.  But again, my simple advice, take your time and determine how big you want to go and how much time you want to spend!  Good luck!

PS.  My son is in his late 20s and he still asks for R/C equipment for Christmas!

Research. Oh I’ve been reading! Ha ha. I came out the other end more confused than when I went in. You’re right though, there doesn’t seem to be a simple and one size fits all solution. It appears that I have to make a decision early on what I plan to run. Thankfully all of my non Lionel locomotives are older conventional models. I think I’ll stay with Lionel though regarding new models for no other reason than nostalgia. Admittedly, I don’t have much that could be classed as true O scale. The Williams SD45 is the only one that looks funny because it’s bigger than all my other locomotives and dwarfs my rolling stock. The LionChief and plus models seem to fit in with my postwar given the measurements. While a 30” long S2 looks phenomenal, it’s also formidable and requires a curve I’m not willing to facilitate. Besides, if I wanted perfect scale models I’d be working with HO. One of my favorite operating accessories is that old operating gateman, the one where the man is actually taller than the train he’s holding tthe lantern for.........the action, sounds, smoke and smells hold the attraction for me.

   To "play" trains you only need what makes you happy. It sounds simple but it's not always that easy to know yourself that well. Impulse can get you off track if you go with what you "want" vs what you need.

Composer issues here, sorry I'll have to bow out now.

When I first thought of dipping into model trains again, I initially thought of scale modeling as I enjoy doing detail work such as weathering and wear. I envisioned buying rolling stock kits and building them to my own level of vision; even went as far as buying some with the Seaboard Coast in mind. However time constraints self imposed by sailing/camping/jeeping along with R/C cars/boats/planes and heli’s quickly limited those ideas. The simplicity of just running some trains really had an appeal to it. However during that HO phase I really reasearched DCC and came away from it feeling very impressed. Open source systems lead to massive innovation along with being cost effective. What I found with O Gauge was a bunch of Proprietary systems that don’t play well with each other. You can’t have it all but you can get a little bit of each. 

Perhaps ive missed it but within Lionel’s webpage I’ve yet to come across a simple: if you have this,Buy this this and this. Then if you want to add this, buy this this and this....Much of what you guys seem to do is only found by experimenting and collecting info within forums. 

While yes, I could continue to run my PW stuff and it will likely still be running generations from now, I’d like to delve into some more modern equipment. I can’t say I don’t like it if I don’t try it. Yet it seems you either have to be “all in” or not in at all. LionChief won’t work with Legacy. TMCC mostly works with Legacy. Legacy should be able to control PW but not LionChief. Etc etc. This is where my title of Overwhelmed came from.  

On the surface it seems that I need nothing more than my conventional 90w transformers and perhaps some LionChief engines, entry level or not they’re light years ahead of my PW stuff. As it stands I’ve got some 072 FasTrack on the way so I’ll have some room to experiment. I’ve come to dislike the look of 027 curves. Between the 048 I’ve currently got and the new 072 I should be able to smoothly run everything I’ve got along with the foreseeable future. Though I need to stay off Youtube; I have a thing for PRR, grew literally next to their lines, and some of those Legacy K4’s and M’s are absolute works of art. I could watch them slowly crawl back and forth for hours.........kind of like opening the garage door, starting the Chevelle and sitting behind it in a lawn chair. Only the addicted can understand. 

Hi A,

Welcome to the forum. I doubt if it is an overwhelming situation. About the trains...Command operation has made layout building easier. The trains with realistic sounds and functions are more fun.

You are on they way with the new track and a LionChief engine. O72 curves definitely a good choice. Add some fast blow fuses in line with older transformers. The electronics are not as forgiving to sparking as the older stuff when using the older transformers.

I think you will be able to determine your path from there.

Have fun! The forums can certainly help sort out what's needed when you want clarification of direction.

With having purchased more than 50 MTH engines, 15 Lionel Legacy/TMCC engines, 2 SMR and one 3rd Rail,  I have not run into any power compatibility  issues using 4 Lionel 180 bricks, 3 Z4000s, 1 PureDualPower, 4 MTH 1000s and a small Lionel 80.  Once you learn about the use of earth ground for Lionel signal issues and follow Barry's DCS wiring guidelines, only some small issues surface regarding TMCC signals interfering with DCS that are easily overcome.   When I got back into the hobby 30 years ago, I added to my Post War collection by purchasing engines my friends had that we could not afford in the early 50's.  In 2004 I found out about Kline's TMCC Hudson, and I have been hooked on control engines ever since.  I progressed quickly from traditional sized engines and rolling stock to the scale offerings and I have taken over 3/4 of our basement with 3 level s(3rd just completed this weekend - missed Christmas deadline.)   4th level might be done by the summer  It does not matter what you purchase, just enjoy the hobby.  Purchase items on its features and be ready to change directions as you learn more or change your tastes.  All my PW went to my son a couple of years ago and I have sold more than 15 engines as I have changed my operating philosophy from seeing how many trains I could run simultaneously to having enough clear track that my grandchildren can run them without any issues.

Its a grand discussion!   Im sure the folks at all the model train makers have it daily.   With ease they could make every engine and accessory work using blue tooth with only a power source needed.  Lion Chief uses blue tooth controllers.  This years can be ran with your phone.   Nothing else to buy.   OH but you can buy a unit to add to DCC/TMMCC/Legacy so you can run it via blue tooth lol  Now a guy could spend the money on the systems, the engines, the acu, tcu, aeiou and sometimes y modules, to do about the same thing a stand alone LC+ will do ...  And with a tiny bit of effort.  They can make the LC+ do everything!   

Jim

OOh and dont forget.   They have a controller for LC, LC+ that controls up to 3 engines now for 40 bucks.  Next year maybe it will control 6 or 8!!!   And folks please do watch some video of LC+ engines running.   Slow speed as good as any engine!   I'm excited about the upcoming technology!  Without all them wires!

Jim

Hello, and welcome!  You sound a bit like me--Lionel trains as a kid (only I'm from the 50s) and now e-creating that without a layout. I have a grand time on the floor, just like you.

I like the toy, not modeling to scale aspect of the hobby, so I'll just say that I have really enjoyed certain Lionel basic Lionchief sets. Great fun. And I agree that the Lionchief+ trains are very cool, although they are not, as yet, sold in sets.

As for Bluetooth, while it is cool, unlike other control systems you only have a one engine connection with bluetooth on your phone. No running multiple trains on one bluetooth app at the same time. However, you can run a bunch with the individual controllers or the three train remote they sell.

MTH has really nice starter sets--great value. And here's a really great feature--their new, DCS Explorer that comes with the set will allow you to run three trains off their phone app. It's very cool. One thing to watch with MTH if you are using Fasttrak and switches--their steam locos don't like switches very much. I haven't had any problem with their diesels, so I stick to those on a track with switches, and run steamers on a loop without.

So, there's no reason you can't mix and match everything. it just takes a bit of planning. I have managed quite successfully to have a great deal of fun mixing post war conventional, Lionchief and Plus, and MTH DCS Explorer all together, using old and modern transformers for different purposes. I don't have any Legacy, however, so can't speak to that.

But all my purchases can be summed up like this:

Lionchief sets; Lionchief+ engines; MTH starter sets; MTH engines; older, Lionel post war. And they all play pretty well with each other.

Dip your toes in and keep enjoying yourself--that's what it's all about!

You’ve received some good advice so far and I’m sure others will be weighing in.

And remember, there is no right or wrong answer. You have to decide what’s best for you.

Read through your initial post a few times and here’s what I would do if I was you. You obviously have a good roster of conventional runners. I’d look through what Lionel offers in the Lion Chief Plus line (plenty of steam and diesel choices) and pick up one of those. You can run these conventionally or with the supplied remote and you are not committing yourself to a higher-end command system. LC+ gives you a smaller taste for now while you ponder your future options. The nice thing is you can probably pick up some of the previously released LC+ locos at attractive prices.

Good luck.

A. Reinhart,

   1st welcome back to the Greatest Hobby in the world and to the OGR, the best forum on the net.  Lots of knowledgeable people here to help you make decisions about our hobby.

IMO sooner of later just about every person interested in our hobby upgrades to the purchase of both DCS and Legacy.  You might want to educate yourself on both these remote control train set ups before investing further in our hobby.

The new Lionel LC & LC+ layouts are fine to a point, I combined them with my DCS and Legacy layout.  Some people like to limit their money out lay and stay with the just the LC & LC+ trains, each person in our hobby knows his own money situation.

If you do invest in DCS and Legacy I highly recommend Barry's DCS O gauge Companion Book and the OGR Video Guide to DCS, both eliminate many mistakes and problems when putting together a nice DCS/Legacy layout.

As the knight said choose wisely! 

PCRR/Dave

A.Reinhart posted:

...being in the Army I suppose my mother figured I wouldn’t have time for trains and basically wholesaled my fathers entire, large collection. This included all of my own trains left over from a 10x25 layout I had in my playroom.

I read horror stories like this all the time, and I can only shake my head.  What makes people take it for granted that it's okay to toss away their offsprings' possessions (and fathers' heirlooms) without at least asking them?

Fortunately, my parents were more considerate, and today I have all of my original postwar Lionel equipment, plus my father's and Mother's childhood prewar tinplate.  And when I'm no longer around to run them, I've made provision to keep them in the family for the next generation.

First and foremost, only you know what you prefer and what sends you to nostalgia land if that is what you want. You do not have to go with any of the new electronic systems at all. Just buy vintage equipment and a nice renovated vintage transformer like a ZW. Some railroaders like the new realism that new equipment offers. Smoke, bells, chuffs, pump sounds, talking etc. There also seems to be a better variety and selection of equipment and road names.  Others like myself can appreciate that, but still prefer the vintage equipment. These days nice clean vintage equipment is easy to find at very reasonable prices. The 1970's era was a time when quality was down as compared to the 1950's and early 1960's. If you choose to go modern, there are two systems Lionel Leagcy and MTH DCS system. Both are excellent systems, and I believe that you can run either manufacturers equipment with either system. The biggest issues with the newer electronics are programming and upgrades must be done occasionally. Component failure. When an electronic board or part fails and the item is out of warranty it can be hard to and expensive to repair. If the item is too old it may not be repairable. With the vintage equipment, you can run them through dirt, kill a snake with them, leave them out in a damp shed or garage and they can be cleaned and they still run. Parts are readily available from many great vendors. I would sit and think of what your over all goal is. Are you after the nostalgia of your childhood and being with your dad, or do you want to just go for broke and build an empire and you want to keep maintenance easy, or maintenance a little difficult. Once you know your goal and what gives you the thrill your looking for, then look to see what equipment is offered for what you want to do. Vintage equipment is a fixed entity, what they made is known and its just a matter of finding a piece and buying it. Modern equipment is so varied and so many manufacturers are out there making so many different things with different options, it makes that task a little harder. Sometimes you can mix and match. Vintage motive power with modern rolling stock with the great features. Again, it all comes down to what you want to end up with, then let that guide you as you go along to achieving that goal.

Tin

For me, I think my ceiling is going to be LionChief Plus. I like the affordability of conventional trains, so I think I'll always have a good portion of my track dedicated to running them. After that, I think I'd like to keep it as simple as possible, so basic wiring and a remote is it for me.  Now if my kids want to get more complex ... they are more than welcome to do so.

Perhaps I'll get the bug for Legacy down the road, but having lived with myself these past four decades ... probably not.

Balshis posted:

A.Reinhart posted:

...being in the Army I suppose my mother figured I wouldn’t have time for trains and basically wholesaled my fathers entire, large collection. This included all of my own trains left over from a 10x25 layout I had in my playroom.

I read horror stories like this all the time, and I can only shake my head.  What makes people take it for granted that it's okay to toss away their offsprings' possessions (and fathers' heirlooms) without at least asking them?

Fortunately, my parents were more considerate, and today I have all of my original postwar Lionel equipment, plus my father's and Mother's childhood prewar tinplate.  And when I'm no longer around to run them, I've made provision to keep them in the family for the next generation.

Oh yes. Without getting to deep into it, I have nothing but a few pictures to remember my father by. She kept nothing. And yes, things like those trains were always intended to be passed down. I planned to do the same when my clock ran out. It had nothing to do with monetary value, I had a very successful career and planned accordingly; resulting in being FULLY retired at 41. Instead it was simply the memories and the link to the past; many many late nights spent in the basement with my father watching and learning as he built layouts, repaired and serviced locomotives. There were sets from his childhood in that mix as well. I created a pretty exhaustive list of everything we had. Took me a long time based on memory alone. I would often suddenly remember a detail that would help zero in on a particular piece and scramble to write it down. Then there were the little custom mods he did to my locomotives to either correct some issue or just make them run better.  Tracking this stuff down has become a hobby in itself. Is what it is. I’ll keep my opinions of the other half of the species to myself.

Thank you for the replies and suggestions! At this point I think the next step will be to pick up a LionChief Plus loco (or maybe even a starter set) to test the waters and see if this is a direction I want to go. No rush. I have too many hobbies. 

If you raced R/C then you're probably familiar with the problem of whether to just dip your toes into the hobby or go full throttle. I'll bet when you first started R/C there was a lot of different products and manufacturers out there and it was confusing to start, but you figured it out after a while. The hobbies are a lot alike in that respect. Somewhere along the line a boy or father or both come up while you're racing and ask about getting into the hobby and what they need to start and be competitive. 

You're sitting there with the most expensive batteries, motors, chargers, etc, you can get your hands on and what do you tell them ? To spend thousands of dollars on race-level equipment they don't know how to use properly and maybe they lose interest in a few months or to buy entry level equipment that they may have to junk after a few months to buy more competitive stuff.

It's always a tough call, but a Lionel Lionchief Plus is certainly a good starting point.

Overwhelmed? It goes with the territory. A compared to the P/W era of the 1950's and 1960's the choices in model trains and accessories is huge. A typical model railroad enthusiast will spend 100's or even 1000's of hours, planning, creating, building, organizing, rebuilding, buying and operating a layout. Few layouts are seldom 100% complete but the option to change and upgrade things is part of the fun. When its freezing and/or snowing outside there's noting better than the train hobby.  I head down to the basement with coffee in hand and move the building process along.  The layout is 95% complete and the 15 years spent building it to this point has provided many hours of fun. 

Richie C. posted:

If you raced R/C then you're probably familiar with the problem of whether to just dip your toes into the hobby or go full throttle. I'll bet when you first started R/C there was a lot of different products and manufacturers out there and it was confusing to start, but you figured it out after a while. The hobbies are a lot alike in that respect. Somewhere along the line a boy or father or both come up while you're racing and ask about getting into the hobby and what they need to start and be competitive. 

You're sitting there with the most expensive batteries, motors, chargers, etc, you can get your hands on and what do you tell them ? To spend thousands of dollars on race-level equipment they don't know how to use properly and maybe they lose interest in a few months or to buy entry level equipment that they may have to junk after a few months to buy more competitive stuff.

It's always a tough call, but a Lionel Lionchief Plus is certainly a good starting point.

Oh boy, yeah, that’s a tough one. I’m still very active within RC off-road Racing and spend at least two weekdays a week at the track practicing. I’ve dealt with that question many times.  That addiction runs a deep because it’s fueled by competition in addition to the regular draw of the hobby. 

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Overwhelmed? It goes with the territory. A compared to the P/W era of the 1950's and 1960's the choices in model trains and accessories is huge. A typical model railroad enthusiast will spend 100's or even 1000's of hours, planning, creating, building, organizing, rebuilding, buying and operating a layout. Few layouts are seldom 100% complete but the option to change and upgrade things is part of the fun. When its freezing and/or snowing outside there's noting better than the train hobby.  I head down to the basement with coffee in hand and move the building process along.  The layout is 95% complete and the 15 years spent building it to this point has provided many hours of fun. 

Very true! That’s funny but so true. There was always that portion of my dads layouts that were “in progress “ lol.  Leaving a door open to justify further spending and time spent working on it perhaps?

A.Reinhart- I got back into the hobby a couple of years ago after many years in HO trains, Aurora race cars, etc in my childhood (60's-70's). My Dad had a couple of Lionel Tinplate sets that we took out around Christmas. When I decided (OK negotiated with the CEO), for a little space (4' X 8') to build a layout I kept it simple. I bought a bunch of used stuff on Ebay, post-war, MPC, and conventional modern, along with a good KW transformer. I went with tubular track and 5121, 5122 turnouts and block wiring for power and control.  I've scratch built a couple of buildings and am learning a lot about ballasting track and landscaping. I can't tell you how much fun I'm having running trains again. I figure that this layout will come down one day after my kids are out of the house and I can build a larger layout with all the fancy control systems, etc. Who knows by then it might be all battery/ RC like your cars.

The point here is don't feel overwhelmed, just start simple and have fun. Ton's of great advice here and plenty of guys and gals who are happy to share their expertise.

Good luck- Bob

Here's my advice.  Take your time and enjoy what you are doing.  If some aspect starts to cause heartache, move to something else.  Don't be afraid to give your hobby a break and come back to it.  Great thing about O gauge is that a permanent layout is not required, due to its size you can put up and take down as you wish unlike HO or N.

Start with Lionel Legacy or MTH DCS, whichever seems to have what you want.  In the end they will play together and MTH's WiFi app will run Legacy through it too.  In fact it is a ongoing project at MTH to enhance this part of the app.

Don't let the extreme opinions of others affect yours and don't follow anyone's idea of what you "have" to do.

Last is, you will make mistakes, just like in the rest of life.  There will be regrets, accept this and move on.  It's never to late to start over and go in a different direction. I haven't met anyone who ever said "I would go back and do it all exactly the same".

Mine was oval - mostly modified indoor banked carpet and some outdoors at King, the Whip, etc. - never liked to get my hands dirty.  Unfortunately, that aspect of R/C racing has pretty much dried up due to high cost, lack of new blood, and tracks not making any money - so now it's trains.

It is really to get overwhelmed with all this, there is no doubt, there are a lot of choices that didn't exist in the past, before the advent of TMCC there only was conventional operation, now you have multiple command and control (DCS controlled by its handheld remote, dcs via bluetooth, Legacy via controller or bluetooth, LC with its controller, Lionchief+ with controller, Lionchief+ with bluetooth access instead of controller) plus conventional (which works with all engines except Lionchief). 

First off, IMO there is no reason you have to "jump into" command control unless you already really know you want to. Most engines, other than LC, run in conventional mode, and while with conventional you have limited control of the various functions the engine can do, it still will work as well if not better than a old post war engine would do. Nice part about that is you can buy engines that happen to have legacy/tmcc and/or DCS because you like the way they look. It is relatively easy to add command control to a layout once it is built, it isn't particularly complicated wiring. Conventional wisdom seems to be to get command control right away and wire it, but it can be retrofitted later from what i know, so there is no pressure. 

I agree with others that getting a lionchief plus engine might be a good starting point if you have a layout, LC+ doesn't have any wiring, it operates off track voltage and uses direct RC, and can easily give you a taste of command control (and not a small one, either, LC+ has gotten pretty sophisticated) without having to do much other than have track to run it on and a transformer for track voltage.You could build a conventional layout for now, get an LC+, see if you like it, and if you do, then you may want to investigate command control. DCS FWIW can control TMCC and Legacy equipped locomotives (Legacy cannot control DCS engines), though unless it has changed the DCS to TMCC/Legacy doesn't support the full range of functions (others will likely pipe in about that), so theoretically if you didn't want multiple systems you could go with DCS and it could could handle TMCC/Legacy engines to some extent. Both command control systems can operate conventional engines (though only by the same method a transformer does, varying voltage to the tracks). 

Another thing to keep in mind is that it is possible to upgrade conventional engines to command control, including postwar engines with the open frame motors that can use the ERR AC commander boards to handle TMCC, Williams engines can be upgraded as well, so if you have some conventional engines you love and can afford the conversion cost and don't mind making them "not authentic", it is an option. 

The nice part about all this is you don't have to make decisions right now, there is no pressure, no decisions you make now are permanent/fixed in stone. if you build a more toy like layout with operating accessories then decide you want to go hi rail, you can always do that, trains are kind of like a giant sandbox where castles and moats and roads can be wiped out and start again. You run conventional then decide to go command, no problem, you build a layout and figure out you want more prototypical operation, you rebuild it. Put it this way (something I have to tell myself all the time!) is when you look at the layouts people on here have built, likely they went through a lot of trial and error, built small layouts, bigger layouts, and along the way learned what they wanted in a layout, some go from toy train to hi rail, some go from hi rail to toy train, and so forth, so there isn't anything as "getting it right" or whatnot. Doesn't mean you shouldn't/can't listen to people's suggestions, like wiring for legacy, just saying that they are just that, suggestions, based on their experience, but that doesn't translate to "you vill do this" kind of thing. 

There are things you probably should listen to, things like allowing access to all area of your layout, things like certain transformers don't work with certain engines, things like if you use older transformers like ZW, KW and so forth, you make sure they have been maintained and use fast trip circuit breakers and TVS with them when working with modern engines.......those are universal things to me, rather than individual wants/needs. 

And if it makes you feel any better, other than not being retired (and not likely for a pretty long while), I am in the same position you are, trying to figure out how to get from point A to point B..and my advice, FWIW, is based on what I tell myself, too, to keep motivated, especially when reading the superhuman efforts of some of the people on here, where they get more done on a layout in a day or week than I have in 20 years! *lol*. 

  LC+; so you can run conventionally with your present transformer It would be a nice intro to command with room to back out since you can run them without a remote (if I recall right).

  I dont agree that any system is "easier" to set up and use than traditional conventional. You only deal witb two wires and a wall plug; a handle/dial for speed (maybe 1 for drection, maybe 1 for bell)

More convenient to USE command?; Maybe (?). E.g.-maybe on a huge layout I'd use it more because running back & forth to a tranformer cabe a pita when it's 20ft away. ...or maybe would I be swearing and looking around frantically for the remote I set down....  somewhere?...as a derailed loco smolders slightly. (this is where with command old or new, transformers vs bricks, a handle is nice. My ac OG juicers will always have handles  )

LC or LC+ would be darn near equal in simplicty. But with more buttons, the remote is a tad more complicated. And there IS that need of batteries. (my tv will always have at least some kind of buttons too )

  I fully agree that the general tmcc/ legacy info, assembled into "laymen's terms" to intice a buying interest, isn't really out there. Buzzword terminology and "wow" sales pitches used without consideration to even a partial explaination for a novice that might have IQ enough to understand. It goes from a "wishbook" type note, right to tech level. When tmcc was first released I called Lionel asking where I could find literature to teach me what I'd need to buy and what tmcc could do. The reply wasn't a request for a mailing address to send a catalog, or detailed info, of some kind; instead, "It's remote control" a part number for an $80 manual.  I don't pay a car dealer for the info that helps make their money either....    Lionel is a different company today, but I don't see a big difference in how that kind of info is presented to the general public today.. It seems like it shouldnt be as hard as it is to figure out how to get started. Hobby or not, that 

   I know I don't need command to be happy, but I kinda want it. Just not as bad.... anymore    I have a few used and gifted command engines, and have run with command since then, but I prefer to buy fix and run conventional stuff.  Any aversion to electronics is more about my want for simplicity; I know electronics repair from work; I seldom find component electronics simpler than electro mechcanical. I also grew tired of the sounds quickly and don't really use them; but I still might pick up a command unit some day if I found the right deal, but I don't need it either. I even have access to an unused tmcc and dcs, I just don't want to bother; I'm content 

  The newness of the FastTrack connections and the increased curve diameter are biggest factors in not slowing much in the curves imo. New tubular track in the same diameter would have given about the same increase over your 40 years old track and been slightly cheaper. But you now have the experience to at least know for sure which look or sound you might prefer.

  There was also a very old solution to the old tube track coming apart. and it allowed bigger screw holes to mount track permanently (tiny tie hole size screws can be hard to find... and use). A Lionel clip after Ives closed. They never changed the stamping; even new track clips say Ives (pics below).  Running more wire to the other side of the loop would have helped, and still helps, even with FT. The bigger the "layout", floor or table, the more it needs help from extra wire.

Track types can always be combined somehow, but turnouts and uncoupler track performance can vary. Funny, it seems like pre war marx might be the most versatile

Something I’ve noticed when discussing all these control options is that the capability they provide is something I don’t use at this point. While I’ve spend hours fascinated on YouTube watching operating sessions; a functioning yard where they build the consists without touching the trains themselves, super cool btw! That’s not how I run my trains. I’ll set up a loop, wipe off my 2025, put a few drops of smoke fluid in it and add a few cars, the proceed to smoke up the house for a while. Oftentimes just sitting there or back allowing, laying on the floor watching it go around. The motion of the drivers, the flickering lights in the coaches or caboose, the mechanical sounds and the smells.....that’s enough for me. Good to know all these modern locomotives will work with my trusty 90watt, I need them to pull, smoke and light up, nothing more. 

Thinking back, it’s the same thing I did thirty years ago. There’s something captivating about a post war layout with lit up plasticville neighborhoods, heat activated rotating beacons and multiple crossing gates along with a few trains once the lights are turned off. Very hands off once everything’s in motion. Perhaps given all my other highly active, oftentimes downright demanding hobbies this fills in a section where I can relax and enjoy what’s in front of me for a moment. 

TV=bluetooth, phone=bluetooth, radio,cd,music player=bluetooth, speakers=bluetooth, fridge=bluetooth, automobile=bluetooth, tablet=bluetooth.    When was the last time you got into a car and synced up your DCC?   Dual band bluetooth now?   AWESOME! Im glad Lionel didnt let the future pass them by!   It will get better and better too! 

Jim

Carsntrains: I think you might be right here. I was just reading about the Legacy Niagra and they did mention full control via LionChief Plus and a Bluetooth app.  As crazy as this may sound, it might just be possible to run a layout via my iPhone. Or better yet, use one of my previous phones that aren’t “in service” anymore as a dedicated train control phone. I’ve got both a Samsung S7+ and an HTC10 laying around collecting dust. Both have the latest Bluetooth on them. Consider this; Root one of them. Delete everything on it except the basic O.S, wireless and Bluetooth programs. Now I’ve got 256GB and a powerful handheld computer. Install all my favorite train apps and forums along with all the Williams/Lionel control apps. This now becomes an extremely powerful, upgradable and mobile control unit! 

Im going to look into this a little deeper but this may just be a one system covers all solution. 

The only advice I would give is to not let yourself get roped into one brand over another.   Pretty safe to say all the manufactures have pluses and minuses.

When I buy trains, I buy them simply because they look good to me, irregardless of the brand.  They all make good trains.  

I would suggest that if you choose to go command route, you research the main 2 options from Lionel and MTH and determine the system that will best do what you want/need the trains to do and more importantly, which one makes running the other manufacturer's trains easy.  

There are folks on the forum who are expert in both systems and can better explain how easy or hard one system is over another.  

Good luck and don't be overwhelmed.  This is fun stuff.

Ed

A.Reinhart posted:

Richie C. posted:

If you raced R/C then you're probably familiar with the problem of whether to just dip your toes into the hobby or go full throttle. I'll bet when you first started R/C there was a lot of different products and manufacturers out there and it was confusing to start, but you figured it out after a while. The hobbies are a lot alike in that respect. Somewhere along the line a boy or father or both come up while you're racing and ask about getting into the hobby and what they need to start and be competitive. 

You're sitting there with the most expensive batteries, motors, chargers, etc, you can get your hands on and what do you tell them ? To spend thousands of dollars on race-level equipment they don't know how to use properly and maybe they lose interest in a few months or to buy entry level equipment that they may have to junk after a few months to buy more competitive stuff.

It's always a tough call, but a Lionel Lionchief Plus is certainly a good starting point.

Oh boy, yeah, that’s a tough one. I’m still very active within RC off-road Racing and spend at least two weekdays a week at the track practicing. I’ve dealt with that question many times.  That addiction runs a deep because it’s fueled by competition in addition to the regular draw of the hobby. 

The one plus with this hobby is that "being competitive" is out of the equation

It's the equivalent of New Bright and Traxxas being able to play side-by side*. All the major control systems will operate on the same track at the same time, and even the dinky-est secondhand starter set can be equipped to be run remotely alongside top-of-the-line equipment. While it may not be economically  feasible in some cases (I once joked about putting a $60 Electric RR co. TMCC board into one of Lionel's infamous plastic-wheeled 0-4-0 steamers, one of which I acquired for the princely sum of $10), it can be done even then if you're in a 'no one left behind' mood.

---PCJ

*I'm looking into installing hobby-grade electronics into a small collection of Chinese-market R/C buses that only came with on/off style throttle/steering. One complication is the vanishing selection of reversing ESC's for brushed motors, since the toys can't readily be retrofitted with brushless motors

Mr. Reinhart---  I'm glad to see that you have been able to dig out from under the deluge of well meaning and free advice.  I've been in the hobby for about 60 years and I would be daunted and thoroughly confused by all the advice.  I see you have figured out that there is nothing you have to buy nor decisions you have to make to find the best start.  Set up what you have and little by little add a car here, an engine there.  The best thing about TMCC or DCS is the hand held controller.  You can stand anywhere around your layout and control a train while you work on some part of your layout you can't reach from your control area.  Good luck.  Odd-d

A - Downingtown, huh? Just up the road!

Welcome back to the hobby. I haven't had time to read through all the responses you've received so far, however, one thing I'm sure you've realized, you have a great community of enthusiasts who are willing to give you pointers or at least their opinion . Check out Youtube. I found Eric's Trains to be a big help, part of why I decided to start my own video blogs. 

I just got back into the hobby about 2 years ago. Like you, I had a basic conventional layout as a kid with my dad. I decided to jump right in with the Legacy system and I don't regret it. Most of the new Lionel Locos have bluetooth, however, you'll find that the pre-owned market allows you to build your roster without depleting too much of your wallet, so having the Legacy system allowed me to run anything, at least lionel wise.  

Personally, I don't own any MTH locos, yet. I want to, I just don't have the DCS system yet!

You've got a lot of options and endless possibilities. Enjoy the process. 

-Chris 

I researched when I got back "in" a year ago-  I wanted to run postwar trains, plus have the features available on newer locomotives.  So- I bought (3) ZW's (for the price of 2-CW-80's), totaling over 800 watts (in place of 80) and with 12 separate power outputs. 

I started a (fun) e-Bay search for good postwar engines and cars- and spent about $1500 on 5 engines and 30+ cars, plus bought three Lion Chief Plus locomotives for about another $ 1000.  That's slightly more than ONE Legacy engine.

Now I can run conventional control  OR Lion Chief walk around control and even found that I can  run BOTH- just keep the voltage at about 12 instead of the 18- the LC+ engines don't smoke to par, but run fine.

For me, the learning curve and cost for Legacy was simply not worth it.