Overwhelmed

Howdy!  And you know you need what you think you need!! LOL    Ive only been involved for a bit over a year.  I like the Lion Chief but they are entry level.  Now the Lion Chief Plus??  Those are pretty cool!   Adjustable volume, speed control, bigger flywheel motors, pretty good sound, fan driven smoke, operating electro couplers, and pretty fair detail.  And you don't need to buy a control system!   Park a Lion Chief or Plus and run a conventional engine!  Run as many LC-LCP engines as you choose at the same time (with enough power).   I think the Bluetooth is the way of the future.   All that control.  No control system!  I see why folks with lots of money in control systems don't like LC or LC+.    I watched a YouTube video on Eric's Trains channel and it sold me on them!  Now just to see how they last.  And how much it costs to fix them when they do break (burn a board or sound card) .. BUT you have all that in the Legacy, Williams, and MTH engines with control also! 

Jim 

I switched from HO to O 3r in early 1990's.......and as of this week I learned the hard way some MTH locos do NOT work with MTH transformers!!!! Throw in all the brands  of track,  toy, semi scale and scale sized equipment. So even after being a model railroader for well over 55 years I am still figuring things out. I don't think there is a one source cover it all way to learn O 3r.  Kinda trail by fire.....but most of the folks here will be happy to help....a few others may tell you to do your own research. Jump in and hang on......have fun.  

Go all in and get Legacy.  It isn't that complicated.  

Welcome, Alan, and get ready for the deluge of opinions!  Quickly stated, mine are (if within budget): get a decent power supply, a legacy kit with a powermaster (to enable control of conventional locos), and perhaps a lionchief plus locomotive or set for play value. In fact, you may wish to start with the LC+ as it's incredibly simple, less expensive, and fun to use. (One note: you cannot use Legacy to control a LC locomotive--you need to use the dedicated remote that comes with the locomotive.)  I am particularly fond of the camelback since it is of scale size but not too large, and they run great. I also run MTH's DCS system now too, but am happy with the path I took starting with legacy first (backward compatible with TMCC). My personal opinion, I found the Legacy system to be less finicky, as well as easier to run and install (get ready for many impassioned opinions on that!). If cross-manufacture compatibility is important to you now, start with DCS since you can run some (but not all) legacy features with it. If you do that, make sure to purchase the DCS Companion Book by Barry Broskowitz--most folks here consider that an essential reference, and Barry is a most helpful & respected resource here on the forum.

Jim

AMCDave posted:

I switched from HO to O 3r in early 1990's.......and as of this week I learned the hard way some MTH locos do NOT work with MTH transformers!!!! Throw in all the brands  of track,  toy, semi scale and scale sized equipment. So even after being a model railroader for well over 55 years I am still figuring things out. I don't think there is a one source cover it all way to learn O 3r.  Kinda trail by fire.....but most of the folks here will be happy to help....a few others may tell you to do your own research. Jump in and hang on......have fun.  

I was shocked to see what some have said about that issue!  And you hit the nail on the head.   Go buy a new car to find out the key they give you doesn't work.  Just like my local hobby shop guy tells me they have an ongoing issue with the tether connecting to tender to the engine.  Amazing. 

Jim 

Wow!  I do suggest that you only have begun to scratch the surface.   My story is similar to yours - only I was able to recover my old lionel stuff some 25 years later as I knew the person to whom my dad sold it.  I did decide to get back into it in a rather big way.  My simple advice to you since you do not seem to be in a hurry is to follow this forum for a while and to continue to read OGR (I assume you are doing so).  Then decide how big or how small you intend to go.   You can invest in ready-to-run sets by MTH or Lionel if you go on the smaller side or go big into “scale” equipment by MTH, Atlas, Lionel, etc.  I chose MTH because in my opinion they were more advanced at the time - if you are going big, I would suggest you include the MTH DCS system in your investigation.  There are pros and cons to all choices.  But again, my simple advice, take your time and determine how big you want to go and how much time you want to spend!  Good luck!

PS.  My son is in his late 20s and he still asks for R/C equipment for Christmas!

Research. Oh I’ve been reading! Ha ha. I came out the other end more confused than when I went in. You’re right though, there doesn’t seem to be a simple and one size fits all solution. It appears that I have to make a decision early on what I plan to run. Thankfully all of my non Lionel locomotives are older conventional models. I think I’ll stay with Lionel though regarding new models for no other reason than nostalgia. Admittedly, I don’t have much that could be classed as true O scale. The Williams SD45 is the only one that looks funny because it’s bigger than all my other locomotives and dwarfs my rolling stock. The LionChief and plus models seem to fit in with my postwar given the measurements. While a 30” long S2 looks phenomenal, it’s also formidable and requires a curve I’m not willing to facilitate. Besides, if I wanted perfect scale models I’d be working with HO. One of my favorite operating accessories is that old operating gateman, the one where the man is actually taller than the train he’s holding tthe lantern for.........the action, sounds, smoke and smells hold the attraction for me.

   To "play" trains you only need what makes you happy. It sounds simple but it's not always that easy to know yourself that well. Impulse can get you off track if you go with what you "want" vs what you need.

Composer issues here, sorry I'll have to bow out now.

When I first thought of dipping into model trains again, I initially thought of scale modeling as I enjoy doing detail work such as weathering and wear. I envisioned buying rolling stock kits and building them to my own level of vision; even went as far as buying some with the Seaboard Coast in mind. However time constraints self imposed by sailing/camping/jeeping along with R/C cars/boats/planes and heli’s quickly limited those ideas. The simplicity of just running some trains really had an appeal to it. However during that HO phase I really reasearched DCC and came away from it feeling very impressed. Open source systems lead to massive innovation along with being cost effective. What I found with O Gauge was a bunch of Proprietary systems that don’t play well with each other. You can’t have it all but you can get a little bit of each. 

Perhaps ive missed it but within Lionel’s webpage I’ve yet to come across a simple: if you have this,Buy this this and this. Then if you want to add this, buy this this and this....Much of what you guys seem to do is only found by experimenting and collecting info within forums. 

While yes, I could continue to run my PW stuff and it will likely still be running generations from now, I’d like to delve into some more modern equipment. I can’t say I don’t like it if I don’t try it. Yet it seems you either have to be “all in” or not in at all. LionChief won’t work with Legacy. TMCC mostly works with Legacy. Legacy should be able to control PW but not LionChief. Etc etc. This is where my title of Overwhelmed came from.  

On the surface it seems that I need nothing more than my conventional 90w transformers and perhaps some LionChief engines, entry level or not they’re light years ahead of my PW stuff. As it stands I’ve got some 072 FasTrack on the way so I’ll have some room to experiment. I’ve come to dislike the look of 027 curves. Between the 048 I’ve currently got and the new 072 I should be able to smoothly run everything I’ve got along with the foreseeable future. Though I need to stay off Youtube; I have a thing for PRR, grew literally next to their lines, and some of those Legacy K4’s and M’s are absolute works of art. I could watch them slowly crawl back and forth for hours.........kind of like opening the garage door, starting the Chevelle and sitting behind it in a lawn chair. Only the addicted can understand. 

Hi A,

Welcome to the forum. I doubt if it is an overwhelming situation. About the trains...Command operation has made layout building easier. The trains with realistic sounds and functions are more fun.

You are on they way with the new track and a LionChief engine. O72 curves definitely a good choice. Add some fast blow fuses in line with older transformers. The electronics are not as forgiving to sparking as the older stuff when using the older transformers.

I think you will be able to determine your path from there.

Have fun! The forums can certainly help sort out what's needed when you want clarification of direction.

With having purchased more than 50 MTH engines, 15 Lionel Legacy/TMCC engines, 2 SMR and one 3rd Rail,  I have not run into any power compatibility  issues using 4 Lionel 180 bricks, 3 Z4000s, 1 PureDualPower, 4 MTH 1000s and a small Lionel 80.  Once you learn about the use of earth ground for Lionel signal issues and follow Barry's DCS wiring guidelines, only some small issues surface regarding TMCC signals interfering with DCS that are easily overcome.   When I got back into the hobby 30 years ago, I added to my Post War collection by purchasing engines my friends had that we could not afford in the early 50's.  In 2004 I found out about Kline's TMCC Hudson, and I have been hooked on control engines ever since.  I progressed quickly from traditional sized engines and rolling stock to the scale offerings and I have taken over 3/4 of our basement with 3 level s(3rd just completed this weekend - missed Christmas deadline.)   4th level might be done by the summer  It does not matter what you purchase, just enjoy the hobby.  Purchase items on its features and be ready to change directions as you learn more or change your tastes.  All my PW went to my son a couple of years ago and I have sold more than 15 engines as I have changed my operating philosophy from seeing how many trains I could run simultaneously to having enough clear track that my grandchildren can run them without any issues.

Its a grand discussion!   Im sure the folks at all the model train makers have it daily.   With ease they could make every engine and accessory work using blue tooth with only a power source needed.  Lion Chief uses blue tooth controllers.  This years can be ran with your phone.   Nothing else to buy.   OH but you can buy a unit to add to DCC/TMMCC/Legacy so you can run it via blue tooth lol  Now a guy could spend the money on the systems, the engines, the acu, tcu, aeiou and sometimes y modules, to do about the same thing a stand alone LC+ will do ...  And with a tiny bit of effort.  They can make the LC+ do everything!   

Jim

OOh and dont forget.   They have a controller for LC, LC+ that controls up to 3 engines now for 40 bucks.  Next year maybe it will control 6 or 8!!!   And folks please do watch some video of LC+ engines running.   Slow speed as good as any engine!   I'm excited about the upcoming technology!  Without all them wires!

Jim

Hello, and welcome!  You sound a bit like me--Lionel trains as a kid (only I'm from the 50s) and now e-creating that without a layout. I have a grand time on the floor, just like you.

I like the toy, not modeling to scale aspect of the hobby, so I'll just say that I have really enjoyed certain Lionel basic Lionchief sets. Great fun. And I agree that the Lionchief+ trains are very cool, although they are not, as yet, sold in sets.

As for Bluetooth, while it is cool, unlike other control systems you only have a one engine connection with bluetooth on your phone. No running multiple trains on one bluetooth app at the same time. However, you can run a bunch with the individual controllers or the three train remote they sell.

MTH has really nice starter sets--great value. And here's a really great feature--their new, DCS Explorer that comes with the set will allow you to run three trains off their phone app. It's very cool. One thing to watch with MTH if you are using Fasttrak and switches--their steam locos don't like switches very much. I haven't had any problem with their diesels, so I stick to those on a track with switches, and run steamers on a loop without.

So, there's no reason you can't mix and match everything. it just takes a bit of planning. I have managed quite successfully to have a great deal of fun mixing post war conventional, Lionchief and Plus, and MTH DCS Explorer all together, using old and modern transformers for different purposes. I don't have any Legacy, however, so can't speak to that.

But all my purchases can be summed up like this:

Lionchief sets; Lionchief+ engines; MTH starter sets; MTH engines; older, Lionel post war. And they all play pretty well with each other.

Dip your toes in and keep enjoying yourself--that's what it's all about!

You’ve received some good advice so far and I’m sure others will be weighing in.

And remember, there is no right or wrong answer. You have to decide what’s best for you.

Read through your initial post a few times and here’s what I would do if I was you. You obviously have a good roster of conventional runners. I’d look through what Lionel offers in the Lion Chief Plus line (plenty of steam and diesel choices) and pick up one of those. You can run these conventionally or with the supplied remote and you are not committing yourself to a higher-end command system. LC+ gives you a smaller taste for now while you ponder your future options. The nice thing is you can probably pick up some of the previously released LC+ locos at attractive prices.

Good luck.

A. Reinhart,

   1st welcome back to the Greatest Hobby in the world and to the OGR, the best forum on the net.  Lots of knowledgeable people here to help you make decisions about our hobby.

IMO sooner of later just about every person interested in our hobby upgrades to the purchase of both DCS and Legacy.  You might want to educate yourself on both these remote control train set ups before investing further in our hobby.

The new Lionel LC & LC+ layouts are fine to a point, I combined them with my DCS and Legacy layout.  Some people like to limit their money out lay and stay with the just the LC & LC+ trains, each person in our hobby knows his own money situation.

If you do invest in DCS and Legacy I highly recommend Barry's DCS O gauge Companion Book and the OGR Video Guide to DCS, both eliminate many mistakes and problems when putting together a nice DCS/Legacy layout.

As the knight said choose wisely! 

PCRR/Dave

A.Reinhart posted:

...being in the Army I suppose my mother figured I wouldn’t have time for trains and basically wholesaled my fathers entire, large collection. This included all of my own trains left over from a 10x25 layout I had in my playroom.

I read horror stories like this all the time, and I can only shake my head.  What makes people take it for granted that it's okay to toss away their offsprings' possessions (and fathers' heirlooms) without at least asking them?

Fortunately, my parents were more considerate, and today I have all of my original postwar Lionel equipment, plus my father's and Mother's childhood prewar tinplate.  And when I'm no longer around to run them, I've made provision to keep them in the family for the next generation.

First and foremost, only you know what you prefer and what sends you to nostalgia land if that is what you want. You do not have to go with any of the new electronic systems at all. Just buy vintage equipment and a nice renovated vintage transformer like a ZW. Some railroaders like the new realism that new equipment offers. Smoke, bells, chuffs, pump sounds, talking etc. There also seems to be a better variety and selection of equipment and road names.  Others like myself can appreciate that, but still prefer the vintage equipment. These days nice clean vintage equipment is easy to find at very reasonable prices. The 1970's era was a time when quality was down as compared to the 1950's and early 1960's. If you choose to go modern, there are two systems Lionel Leagcy and MTH DCS system. Both are excellent systems, and I believe that you can run either manufacturers equipment with either system. The biggest issues with the newer electronics are programming and upgrades must be done occasionally. Component failure. When an electronic board or part fails and the item is out of warranty it can be hard to and expensive to repair. If the item is too old it may not be repairable. With the vintage equipment, you can run them through dirt, kill a snake with them, leave them out in a damp shed or garage and they can be cleaned and they still run. Parts are readily available from many great vendors. I would sit and think of what your over all goal is. Are you after the nostalgia of your childhood and being with your dad, or do you want to just go for broke and build an empire and you want to keep maintenance easy, or maintenance a little difficult. Once you know your goal and what gives you the thrill your looking for, then look to see what equipment is offered for what you want to do. Vintage equipment is a fixed entity, what they made is known and its just a matter of finding a piece and buying it. Modern equipment is so varied and so many manufacturers are out there making so many different things with different options, it makes that task a little harder. Sometimes you can mix and match. Vintage motive power with modern rolling stock with the great features. Again, it all comes down to what you want to end up with, then let that guide you as you go along to achieving that goal.

Tin