Short Video link of Up Steam Shop open house

Nice video. I was there Friday evening for the private tour and Saturday for the Depot Days open house. 3 wheel sets were visible. Friday night the 4014 front engine was in the bay next to the 4014 boiler with one of the cylinders being turned. Another employee was welding in the firebox. Many sandblasted and primed rebuilt parts around the shop and stored in the roundhouse.

Thanks for the photos guys!  From this novice it looks like a lot of work is getting done.  I guess I really need to plan a trip out that way to see this machine when it's ready.

Hi Sheepdog

Excellent videography & music to tell your story, A well thought out story board for your tour of the U P Steam Shop. 

Thank-you for sharing this video and I also enjoyed the closing frames.

Gary: Rail-fanning with Kent S, and his RR  Photos & Sheepdog

Great video and photos. I would love to be evolved in a project like that.

I want to echo DENNYN, great video and photos and will be really special to see her under steam again. I hope I can see her someday.

Here are a few tidbits heard on the tour from tour guides or from Steam Shop employees. 

 The rest of the 4014 wheel sets were due in this week. The current plan is for 4014 to be moving under her own power as in a break in run by thanksgiving and Hydrostatic in late September or early October. Oil burner system will be one burner. The throttle and brake levers on 844 are Nickel plated not chrome as some have reported. Why plated? Per Ed “Because I wanted it that way”. By the way the 844 has had its annual check out and is ready to run. It looked pretty nice as in clean, like new. 

Thanks guys for the video and pictures! 

I have been really amazed at the level of work being performed on Big Boy 4014.  It looks as if it will be in near new condition when it is done.  Seeing those clean and shiny parts for a 1940s steam engine blows me away. 

Not having a good understanding of the changes needed to convert a Big Boy from coal burning to oil burning I am curious of how big of a job this is and is there optimism with the outcome?  What does a "one burner" system mean for it?  I just today found out that Denver's Big Boy 4005 was once converted for a short while to oil burning but had a performance issue because of the distance from the flames to the crown sheet.

I would like to hear of other steam engine restorations that have had this level of work and also been converted from coal to oil burning if any of you can point me to some info.

R. Hales posted:

Thanks guys for the video and pictures! 

Not having a good understanding of the changes needed to convert a Big Boy from coal burning to oil burning I am curious of how big of a job this is and is there optimism with the outcome?  What does a "one burner" system mean for it?  I just today found out that Denver's Big Boy 4005 was once converted for a short while to oil burning but had a performance issue because of the distance from the flames to the crown sheet.

I would like to hear of other steam engine restorations that have had this level of work and also been converted from coal to oil burning if any of you can point me to some info.

UP 844 and 3985 are oil burners. 

During the tour Friday night a question was asked about converting 844 and 4014 to PTC.  Ed said they would get a waiver for now and consider adding PTC in the future after it is installed system wide and all the issues are worked out. 

For many of us, watching the restoration process over time is sort of like the fun of building a layout.  Thanks for the video and the pictures.  I got the tour a year ago.  I was just up to Green Bay over the weekend.  I had time to tour the Museum there.  They have a big boy under cover as well as some other nice things. Be sure to stop if you get close.  I found a great little book, it shows the recovery and rebuilding process of a few miles of track in Sheboygan Falls to Plymouth Wisconsin. It had been closed for 30 years. The build, that's where its at for me! I toured the city on foot Sunday.

Thanks Kent!  I am pretty dumb to forget the two most obvious big engines converted to oil.

Cool stuff! Thanks everyone for the video, photos, and information.

I so wish I could have been there. I would have bugged him to death with questions. lol

844 originally 8444 has been an oil burner since 1945.  3985 Was converted in 1989-1990.  To my knowledge no one currently in the UP steam program was their for the 3985 conversion.  There probably is a learning curve here.

Here is a link from trainorders on some comparisons between 3985 and 4014.  

https://www.trainorders.com/di.../read.php?10,3398911

TexasSP posted:

844 originally 8444

No. That specific UP FEF-3 was delivered as road number 844, i.e. the very last new steam locomotive ever purchased bu UP. When new EMD GP30 diesels began airing in 1962/1963, in the 800 road number series, someone in Omaha, forgot about steam locomotive #844 still being "active" on the motive power roster, and suddenly there were two #844 locomotives. Thus, steam locomotive #844 received an extra number 4, and became 8444. When GP30 #844 was finally retired off the up roster, and donated, in 1989, the steam locomotive was returned to her original, as delivered road number, 844.

has been an oil burner since 1945. 

Correct. She was delivered as a coal burner, and converted to oil, as were all the other FEF class locomotives, by the end of 1945

3985 Was converted in 1989-1990.  To my knowledge no one currently in the UP steam program was their for the 3985 conversion. 

Correct.

There probably is a learning curve here.

Yes, especially since nobody on the current crew was/is very experienced at firing 3985, whether coal fired OR oil fired.

Here is a link from trainorders on some comparisons between 3985 and 4014.  

https://www.trainorders.com/di.../read.php?10,3398911

 

Understand on the correction, in my mind was thinking back to how she entered her non-revenue service life as 8444.

HW, maybe you can expand, but it would seem to me due to the obvious physical differences between 3985 and 4014 that they would have some distinct differences in how they are fired and operated?

Did Steve Lee ever highlight the differences once the move was made to oil on 3985?

TexasSP posted:

Understand on the correction, in my mind was thinking back to how she entered her non-revenue service life as 8444.

HW, maybe you can expand, but it would seem to me due to the obvious physical differences between 3985 and 4014 that they would have some distinct differences in how they are fired and operated?

Having spent some 17 years as a contract Fireman on the UP Steam crew, firing both 8444/844 and 3985, and talking with many of the "old head" Engineers & Firemen, I learned quite a bit about firing both 3900s as coal and oil burning vs. the 4000s. To a man, they all said that the 4000 class locomotives steamed/fired better/easier than the 3900s. As a coal burner, 3985 was much easier to fire than after she was converted to oil burning. Eventually, in the early 2000s, the combustion air intakes on 3985 were modified/corrected, and lots of additional firebrick was added to the sides and rear of the firebox. She then became much easier to fire, especially without lots of heavy black smoke.

Did Steve Lee ever highlight the differences once the move was made to oil on 3985?

Not to my knowledge, however as I just stated above, the 3985 is NOT an easy locomotive to fire, especially if one doesn't know the railroad you are operating over. Once the Fireman "falls behind", it is pretty difficult to "catch up", until a stop is made, where you can blow her hot again and raise the water level in the boiler.

Kelly Anderson posted:

TexasSP posted:

To my knowledge no one currently in the UP steam program was their for the 3985 conversion.  There probably is a learning curve here.

I'm told that UP still has all of the blueprints for #4005's conversion to oil fuel (and UP was blueprint crazy).  I understand that #4005 was a good steamer on oil, so I would think that it will be a pretty straightforward process.

In fact, according to Bill Kratville's book, plus information from some of the "old heads", the conversion to oil burning on 4005 didn't, start out very well. There were MANY, MANY leaking staybolts in the firebox, after almost every trip. Eventually, once the shop folks, and the Mechanical Dept. men got their heads together, and got the burner properly aligned, plus added additional firebrick, 4005 began to perform MUCH better. By the time the "oil fired experiment" was concluded, many Firemen stated that 4005 became just as good a steam producer, as the rest of the coal burning 4000s. Of course, the 4005 used LOTS and LOTS of Bunker C, and thus couldn't handle full tonnage westbound trains out of Cheyenne, as she would run out of fuel on Sherman Hill, prior to reaching Laramie. The coal burning 4000s and 3900s could take coal at the big coal & water facility near the top of The Hill, however there was no steam plant there in order to heat & supply Bunker C fuel. 

Kelly Anderson posted:

Which leaves us to learn if the existing blueprints were updated as the experiment progressed, or are still the first draft (no pun intended).  In any event, it isn't rocket science, and Matt Austen is still hanging around.  I understand that he spearheaded the improvements to #3985 mentioned above.

Yes, Matt did indeed design and supervise the improvements to 3985, while he was in Cheyenne for the extensive firebox replacement on 844 (2000 through 2005). However, I'm not sure if Matt is still on speaking terms with the current UP management.

If you would like your own set of Big Boy Working Drawings, you can purchase a set.

Purchase price: $398.65 to $538.05

Click on the above, to enlarge.

Click here: For the specifications.

Gary: Rail-fan & model railroader

Thanks again for the information HW.  I really appreciate and value the depth of experience you are able to share.