Vision Line Challenger #3985

It's easy to get caught up in the storm of negativity that the internet provides and lose perspective on what is important to you.  Congratulations on focusing on your own joy and not succumbing to the anguished garment rending of those who have developed a finely tuned ability to see the worst in everything that Lionel does .  Enjoy your loco, and may it be problem free (like the vast majority of purchases most of us make).

Has anyone spoken to Lionel about whether or not the sound can be changed to an articulated one? 

I got mine last week like you I don’t plan to be discouraged about the sounds. Here’s a short clip at home. So far I think Lionel did great on quality control on these engines. I was not impressed with QC on the UP 4 pack 21” cars but that is now water under the bridge and this is a great addition to any collection 

Good looking train zachariah. I really want to know if your new challenger has the kinematic coupling between engine and tender.  Does it? Thank you. 

It sounds like an articulated steam engine with the drivers in symmetrical postions (like it is)...

I am waiting for mine...  hopefully here thisweekend!

Oh brother, here we go again.  T minus 30 seconds until thread deletion. 

FJI posted:

Has anyone spoken to Lionel about whether or not the sound can be changed to an articulated one? 

You need to call them???? They stated if you are not happy they will do their best to make it right remember this is Vision Line

zhubl posted:

I got mine last week like you I don’t plan to be discouraged about the sounds. Here’s a short clip at home. So far I think Lionel did great on quality control on these engines. I was not impressed with QC on the UP 4 pack 21” cars but that is now water under the bridge and this is a great addition to any collection 

I appreciate you sharing the video. Awesome look into what my setup will look like. This loco and passenger set is the reason I was drawn back into the hobby after nearly 20 years. So for all the good/bad/could haves, this set is a W for me and those in my circle because they are not associated to the hobby because of this. (Not all bad Lionel).

T4TT posted:

Good looking train zachariah. I really want to know if your new challenger has the kinematic coupling between engine and tender.  Does it? Thank you. 

It does not, I was looking forward to see how that would look on a bigger locomotive like the challenger (I also kinda forgot that it was going to have it). I suppose they were just unable to get it to work right. 

OK, Got my Challenger today. Tried to register it on the Lionel web site and it says it's not under warranty. I guess the didn't update the web site. I hope nobody has to change a traction tire. They give you a hex nut tool to change the tire but it looks like you need a allen wrench to change the tire. Otherwise it look nice, it's a heavy engine. and they give you a knuckle coupler to put on the front. Now I can double head it with the Big Boy. I could only go back and forth on my layout. I'll have to wait till I get to the club to give it a real workout. I hope the traction tires hold out.

Jim D

Jim D posted:

OK, Got my Challenger today. Tried to register it on the Lionel web site and it says it's not under warranty. I guess the didn't update the web site. I hope nobody has to change a traction tire. They give you a hex nut tool to change the tire but it looks like you need a allen wrench to change the tire. Otherwise it look nice, it's a heavy engine. and they give you a knuckle coupler to put on the front. Now I can double head it with the Big Boy. I could only go back and forth on my layout. I'll have to wait till I get to the club to give it a real workout. I hope the traction tires hold out.

Jim D

I noticed that too on the traction tires… I’m not too worried I’ve rarely replaced traction tires. The only locomotives I’ve replaced tires on is the 6-11131 Legacy 844 and 6-11208 LM Big Boy. My vision big boy is still going strong, as well as my 1st run Challenger I picked up last year. 

Zachariah thank you for letting me know that there is no kinematic draw bar. Enjoy your new Challenger!

T4TT posted:

Oh brother, here we go again.  T minus 30 seconds until thread deletion. 

I laughed so hard at this...  be positive, its still up...

Jim D posted:

They give you a hex nut tool to change the tire but it looks like you need a allen wrench to change the tire. Otherwise it look nice, it's a heavy engine. and they give you a knuckle coupler to put on the front. Now I can double head it with the Big Boy. I could only go back and forth on my layout. I'll have to wait till I get to the club to give it a real workout. I hope the traction tires hold out.

You're not actually telling us you don't own a set of Allen wrenches, are you?

I had to go out to my shed were I have my big roll around tool box. I found an oddball allen key that fit. While I was doing that the bell fell off and I lost it and a piece of piping came off the bottom and I don't know were it goes. I'll have to wait till I get to the club and look at someone else's engine to see where it goes. I put it back in the box before something else happens to it.

Jim D.

Good plan.

Nassau Hobby’s Exclusive WM Challenger is in stock and shipping now!

Have there been any sightings of the Rio Grande green boiler Challenger? I would like to see one 

I'd say it turned out excellent. Right now, I'm considering the 3985.

Hard to tell from that video but, is the model of 3985 that of a coal burner, as she was originally, or converted to an oil burner in about 1989?

Hot Water posted:

Hard to tell from that video but, is the model of 3985 that of a coal burner, as she was originally, or converted to an oil burner in about 1989?

Just to confirm, this model is an oil burner.

Landsteiner posted:

It's easy to get caught up in the storm of negativity that the internet provides and lose perspective on what is important to you.  Congratulations on focusing on your own joy and not succumbing to the anguished garment rending of those who have developed a finely tuned ability to see the worst in everything that Lionel does .  Enjoy your loco, and may it be problem free (like the vast majority of purchases most of us make).

Is simply expecting Lionel to make this version of Challengers as nice as their last version of Challengers truly being negative?

If the bar I expect Lionel to meet on their Vision Line products is simply to meet a quality level and feature level consistent with prior Lionel VL products, am I being unreasonable or negative?  Why not expect Lionel in 2019 to be equivalent (or dare I say better) than Lionel in 2010?

When BTO does not allow for you to see the product you are eventually purchasing, how or why can I assume that these products will be any different than prior runs.....unless specifically told so?

Hi Berk...  thats not an issue at all...  i think its a fair request for sure...

This run of VL challengers is supposed to have alot of improvements...  i think Ryan mentioned an improved Dynamo retention also...  for owners of first VL challengers know, that Dynamo is REALLY HARD to keep in place!  It likes to sneak off and easy to bump off the engine.

I fished an extra dynamo out of my rear drivers when mine was new.  So apparently it was lost and replaced in China.  I ran it several laps before seeing it bouncing around above the drivers...

My challengers have arrived at LHS.  Eager to pick them up today...

"Is simply expecting Lionel to make this version of Challengers as nice as their last version of Challengers truly being negative?"

Not at all. But it's one thing to write that "X is important to me" and "without X I'm not interested," and it's another thing entirely to write that Lionel's removal of a feature is evidence that Lionel staff are incompetent, Howard Hitchcock should be sent to the countryside for re-education , and Lionel doesn't care about it's customers. 

It's all in the way in which one deals with disappointment as a rational adult as opposed to issuing an indictment of everyone at Lionel and in the hobby except one's narcissistic and needy self. 

There are participants of the forum who no longer have posting privileges because they were intolerant of the opinions of others, abusive, irrational or consistently over the top. 

You don't qualify.   

That type of vituperative, irrational negativity was what I was referring to, including  other forums that I read where antagonistic lunacy is the norm .

Super O Bob posted:

Hi Berk...  thats not an issue at all...  i think its a fair request for sure...

This run of VL challengers is supposed to have alot of improvements...  i think Ryan mentioned an improved Dynamo retention also...  for owners of first VL challengers know, that Dynamo is REALLY HARD to keep in place!  It likes to sneak off and easy to bump off the engine.

I fished an extra dynamo out of my rear drivers when mine was new.  So apparently it was lost and replaced in China.  I ran it several laps before seeing it bouncing around above the drivers...

My challengers have arrived at LHS.  Eager to pick them up today...

 

I can confirm the dynamo retention. The new one will most definitely stay in place

Berkshire President posted:

Landsteiner posted:

It's easy to get caught up in the storm of negativity that the internet provides and lose perspective on what is important to you.  Congratulations on focusing on your own joy and not succumbing to the anguished garment rending of those who have developed a finely tuned ability to see the worst in everything that Lionel does .  Enjoy your loco, and may it be problem free (like the vast majority of purchases most of us make).

Is simply expecting Lionel to make this version of Challengers as nice as their last version of Challengers truly being negative?

If the bar I expect Lionel to meet on their Vision Line products is simply to meet a quality level and feature level consistent with prior Lionel VL products, am I being unreasonable or negative?  Why not expect Lionel in 2019 to be equivalent (or dare I say better) than Lionel in 2010?

When BTO does not allow for you to see the product you are eventually purchasing, how or why can I assume that these products will be any different than prior runs.....unless specifically told so?

I believe we should expect their Vision Line locomotives live up to what they state on their own website about the standard it's supposed to meet.

As far as losing posting privileges, in my personal opinion the tolerance of the new regime as far I am concerned are defeating the point of the forum. This is supposed to be a place to discuss and make the hobby better including the criticism of manufacturers products to make them better and hold them accountable. But I am seeing where accountability is no longer a standard in todays society.

Peter Araujo posted:

Hot Water posted:

Hard to tell from that video but, is the model of 3985 that of a coal burner, as she was originally, or converted to an oil burner in about 1989?

Just to confirm, this model is an oil burner.

OK, but then I wonder why it doesn't have twin Dynamotors?

You wonder why the manufacturers can't get it right? Perhaps there aren't enough surviving prototypes, reference books, internet resources, or living individuals...oh wait. Never mind.

Hot Water posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

Hot Water posted:

Hard to tell from that video but, is the model of 3985 that of a coal burner, as she was originally, or converted to an oil burner in about 1989?

Just to confirm, this model is an oil burner.

OK, but then I wonder why it doesn't have twin Dynamotors?

That may be. But then also why does the VL Big Boy have NO dynamo?

zhubl posted:

Hot Water posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

Hot Water posted:

Hard to tell from that video but, is the model of 3985 that of a coal burner, as she was originally, or converted to an oil burner in about 1989?

Just to confirm, this model is an oil burner.

OK, but then I wonder why it doesn't have twin Dynamotors?

That may be. But then also why does the VL Big Boy have NO dynamo?

Maybe Lionel modeled the second order of 4000 class locomotive, i.e. 4020 thru 4024 (the last 5), which were delivered with the Dynamo mounted down low, on the Engineer's side, just forward of the ash pan. 

FJI posted:

Has anyone spoken to Lionel about whether or not the sound can be changed to an articulated one? 

I was curious about that myself. My guess is whatever sounds are loaded into the chips and or such are in there even if they don't use them. I don't think a Legacy patch would result in any changes of that(even if the sounds were hiding in there). My guess is that whatever is going to happen would most likely be a call tag, R.A. or something to that effect.

I also saw that TW was having them tomorrow. I posted on TW page under the clown Challenger video and asked if they could ask if the articulation sounds are or aren't supposed to be there. If it gets missed as a question, we'll all still be where we are currently.

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

FJI posted:

Has anyone spoken to Lionel about whether or not the sound can be changed to an articulated one? 

I was curious about that myself. My guess is whatever sounds are loaded into the chips and or such are in there even if they don't use them. I don't think a Legacy patch would result in any changes of that(even if the sounds were hiding in there). My guess is that whatever is going to happen would most likely be a call tag, R.A. or something to that effect.

I also saw that TW was having them tomorrow. I posted on TW page under the clown Challenger video and asked if they could ask if the articulation sounds are or aren't supposed to be there. If it gets missed as a question, we'll all still be where we are currently.

Dave,

I have spoken to Lionel and I received an email but I am not at liberty to share because of all the legal stuff attached in it. Nor do I believe it is my place to share it. Like Dean said in the final post on the other thread closed please contact them if you have issue regarding the sale description of the Challenger. I would contact them to answer your questions that way it is not hear say.

Hot Water posted:

zhubl posted:

Hot Water posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

Hot Water posted:

Hard to tell from that video but, is the model of 3985 that of a coal burner, as she was originally, or converted to an oil burner in about 1989?

Just to confirm, this model is an oil burner.

OK, but then I wonder why it doesn't have twin Dynamotors?

That may be. But then also why does the VL Big Boy have NO dynamo?

Maybe Lionel modeled the second order of 4000 class locomotive, i.e. 4020 thru 4024 (the last 5), which were delivered with the Dynamo mounted down low, on the Engineer's side, just forward of the ash pan. 

I figured if I said something that there would be something I didn’t know. That being said though and correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the second order have the (I’m going to call them “air coils”) up front in the pilot rather than under the handrails like the 1st ordered was delivered?

Shawn_Chronister posted:

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

FJI posted:

Has anyone spoken to Lionel about whether or not the sound can be changed to an articulated one? 

I was curious about that myself. My guess is whatever sounds are loaded into the chips and or such are in there even if they don't use them. I don't think a Legacy patch would result in any changes of that(even if the sounds were hiding in there). My guess is that whatever is going to happen would most likely be a call tag, R.A. or something to that effect.

I also saw that TW was having them tomorrow. I posted on TW page under the clown Challenger video and asked if they could ask if the articulation sounds are or aren't supposed to be there. If it gets missed as a question, we'll all still be where we are currently.

Dave,

I have spoken to Lionel and I received an email but I am not at liberty to share because of all the legal stuff attached in it. Nor do I believe it is my place to share it. Like Dean said in the final post on the other thread closed please contact them if you have issue regarding the sale description of the Challenger. I would contact them to answer your questions that way it is not hear say.

I sent them a message on FB, but I didn't ask them technical question, just if it had the articulation sounds or not and could they post a video if possible. My message was read but no response. I figure something will be said at some point and I can always ring them up.

zhubl posted:

Hot Water posted:

zhubl posted:

Hot Water posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

Hot Water posted:

Hard to tell from that video but, is the model of 3985 that of a coal burner, as she was originally, or converted to an oil burner in about 1989?

Just to confirm, this model is an oil burner.

OK, but then I wonder why it doesn't have twin Dynamotors?

That may be. But then also why does the VL Big Boy have NO dynamo?

Maybe Lionel modeled the second order of 4000 class locomotive, i.e. 4020 thru 4024 (the last 5), which were delivered with the Dynamo mounted down low, on the Engineer's side, just forward of the ash pan. 

I figured if I said something that there would be something I didn’t know. That being said though and correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the second order have the (I’m going to call them “air coils”) up front in the pilot rather than under the handrails like the 1st ordered was delivered?

Yes, those "intercooler radiators" were mounted behind the front shields on the second order of 5, 4000 class locomotives. They were so successful, that after WWII, the UP Mechanical Dept. converted all locomotives of the first order of 20, to the same configuration as the last 5. Thus, by about 1948 all 25 of the 4000s looked pretty much the same, as do all those currently on display, not to mention the restored #4014.

What I can’t get a straight answer to is if I send it into Lionel, are they going to just try and refund me, or fix the sounds? That’s been my only question from the beginning and no response here or from Lionel has been willing to answer that...

Surefire posted:

What I can’t get a straight answer to is if I send it into Lionel, are they going to just try and refund me, or fix the sounds? That’s been my only question from the beginning and no response here or from Lionel has been willing to answer that...

Again, just my opinion, and I may be totally wrong but, I really don't thing the Lionel folks are about to "fix the sound issue"! They will refund your money, because you are not satisfied, but will NOT admit that they made an error.

Surefire posted:

What I can’t get a straight answer to is if I send it into Lionel, are they going to just try and refund me, or fix the sounds? That’s been my only question from the beginning and no response here or from Lionel has been willing to answer that...

I tried to send you an email using the one in your profile and it was returned if you like to hear what I have to say email me.

Hot Water posted:

zhubl posted:

Hot Water posted:

zhubl posted:

Hot Water posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

Hot Water posted:

Hard to tell from that video but, is the model of 3985 that of a coal burner, as she was originally, or converted to an oil burner in about 1989?

Just to confirm, this model is an oil burner.

OK, but then I wonder why it doesn't have twin Dynamotors?

That may be. But then also why does the VL Big Boy have NO dynamo?

Maybe Lionel modeled the second order of 4000 class locomotive, i.e. 4020 thru 4024 (the last 5), which were delivered with the Dynamo mounted down low, on the Engineer's side, just forward of the ash pan. 

I figured if I said something that there would be something I didn’t know. That being said though and correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the second order have the (I’m going to call them “air coils”) up front in the pilot rather than under the handrails like the 1st ordered was delivered?

Yes, those "intercooler radiators" were mounted behind the front shields on the second order of 5, 4000 class locomotives. They were so successful, that after WWII, the UP Mechanical Dept. converted all locomotives of the first order of 20, to the same configuration as the last 5. Thus, by about 1948 all 25 of the 4000s looked pretty much the same, as do all those currently on display, not to mention the restored #4014.

Why I couldn’t key the term intercooler earlier I may never know but thanks for the information 😁

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Shawn_Chronister posted:

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

FJI posted:

Has anyone spoken to Lionel about whether or not the sound can be changed to an articulated one? 

I was curious about that myself. My guess is whatever sounds are loaded into the chips and or such are in there even if they don't use them. I don't think a Legacy patch would result in any changes of that(even if the sounds were hiding in there). My guess is that whatever is going to happen would most likely be a call tag, R.A. or something to that effect.

I also saw that TW was having them tomorrow. I posted on TW page under the clown Challenger video and asked if they could ask if the articulation sounds are or aren't supposed to be there. If it gets missed as a question, we'll all still be where we are currently.

Dave,

I have spoken to Lionel and I received an email but I am not at liberty to share because of all the legal stuff attached in it. Nor do I believe it is my place to share it. Like Dean said in the final post on the other thread closed please contact them if you have issue regarding the sale description of the Challenger. I would contact them to answer your questions that way it is not hear say.

I sent them a message on FB, but I didn't ask them technical question, just if it had the articulation sounds or not and could they post a video if possible. My message was read but no response. I figure something will be said at some point and I can always ring them up.

Well, I sent them a new message on the Challenger and hope that this does get answered. I am really looking forward to the Challenger I ordered(Coal fired UP one).

Interesting about the twin dynamo's, where would the second one be if the one is up by the cab? Other one midway on the engine?

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Shawn_Chronister posted:

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

FJI posted:

Has anyone spoken to Lionel about whether or not the sound can be changed to an articulated one? 

I was curious about that myself. My guess is whatever sounds are loaded into the chips and or such are in there even if they don't use them. I don't think a Legacy patch would result in any changes of that(even if the sounds were hiding in there). My guess is that whatever is going to happen would most likely be a call tag, R.A. or something to that effect.

I also saw that TW was having them tomorrow. I posted on TW page under the clown Challenger video and asked if they could ask if the articulation sounds are or aren't supposed to be there. If it gets missed as a question, we'll all still be where we are currently.

Dave,

I have spoken to Lionel and I received an email but I am not at liberty to share because of all the legal stuff attached in it. Nor do I believe it is my place to share it. Like Dean said in the final post on the other thread closed please contact them if you have issue regarding the sale description of the Challenger. I would contact them to answer your questions that way it is not hear say.

I sent them a message on FB, but I didn't ask them technical question, just if it had the articulation sounds or not and could they post a video if possible. My message was read but no response. I figure something will be said at some point and I can always ring them up.

Well, I sent them a new message on the Challenger and hope that this does get answered. I am really looking forward to the Challenger I ordered(Coal fired UP one).

Interesting about the twin dynamo's, where would the second one be if the one is up by the cab? Other one midway on the engine?

Only the excursion version of 3985 has the twin dynamos, i.e. the oil burning version. The twin dynamos are mounted together on a larger bracket, forward of the cab, on the Fireman's side (same place the single dynamo is located).

Got mine yesterday. Turned out excellent.

Peter Araujo posted:

Got mine yesterday. Turned out excellent.

Looking sharp Peter! Mine should be here tomorrow. Can't wait to finally get it.

Looking good!  Congratulations!

Harold

Mine arrived today but I haven't had a chance to open it yet.

BTW: I can hear something rattle inside the box.  Is that likely just the "spare parts" that included:  traction tires, wrench, pipette, etc?

Rumor is the sound on these is excellent....and much better in person than on YouTube.

Why does it have green class lights?  I thought Lionel went to white class lights on freight locomotives, quite some years ago?

Hot Water posted:

Why does it have green class lights?  I thought Lionel went to white class lights on freight locomotives, quite some years ago?

I never saw them. My Legacy H10 (technically H9) has green class lights. (My apologies for the figures, I got bored)

TrainMan1225 posted:

Hot Water posted:

Why does it have green class lights?  I thought Lionel went to white class lights on freight locomotives, quite some years ago?

I never saw them. My Legacy H10 (technically H9) has green class lights. (My apologies for the figures, I got bored)

I was referring to the Vision Line "scale" steam locomotive models. At least I THOUGHT that Lionel stopped using those silly green class lights on the "high end" freight locomotive models.

Hot Water posted:

TrainMan1225 posted:

Hot Water posted:

Why does it have green class lights?  I thought Lionel went to white class lights on freight locomotives, quite some years ago?

I never saw them. My Legacy H10 (technically H9) has green class lights. (My apologies for the figures, I got bored)

I was referring to the Vision Line "scale" steam locomotive models. At least I THOUGHT that Lionel stopped using those silly green class lights on the "high end" freight locomotive models.

 

If you're talking Vision Line steam locomotives only, then those also never had white class lights since the very first Vision models, the Santa Fe 2-10-10-2 and the PRR CC2. I don't think regular Legacy steam locomotives ever had white class lights either.

TrainMan1225 posted:

Hot Water posted:

TrainMan1225 posted:

Hot Water posted:

Why does it have green class lights?  I thought Lionel went to white class lights on freight locomotives, quite some years ago?

I never saw them. My Legacy H10 (technically H9) has green class lights. (My apologies for the figures, I got bored)

I was referring to the Vision Line "scale" steam locomotive models. At least I THOUGHT that Lionel stopped using those silly green class lights on the "high end" freight locomotive models.

 

If you're talking Vision Line steam locomotives only, then those also never had white class lights since the very first Vision models, the Santa Fe 2-10-10-2 and the PRR CC2. I don't think regular Legacy steam locomotives ever had white class lights either.

Well, that's a darned shame. I thought that Lionel had tried to become more prototypical with their top of the line steam locomotive models. Apparently not. My mistake.

Hot Water posted:

TrainMan1225 posted:

Hot Water posted:

TrainMan1225 posted:

Hot Water posted:

Why does it have green class lights?  I thought Lionel went to white class lights on freight locomotives, quite some years ago?

I never saw them. My Legacy H10 (technically H9) has green class lights. (My apologies for the figures, I got bored)

I was referring to the Vision Line "scale" steam locomotive models. At least I THOUGHT that Lionel stopped using those silly green class lights on the "high end" freight locomotive models.

 

If you're talking Vision Line steam locomotives only, then those also never had white class lights since the very first Vision models, the Santa Fe 2-10-10-2 and the PRR CC2. I don't think regular Legacy steam locomotives ever had white class lights either.

Well, that's a darned shame. I thought that Lionel had tried to become more prototypical with their top of the line steam locomotive models. Apparently not. My mistake.

Hot Water it seems they are having a tough time with the prototypical part from what I have seen with this model. It suppose to match the excursion version which had silver centers on the pilot wheels and painted silver bearing caps on the trailing truck but that was a miss too. Oh and the incorrect sounds. But hey this did not cost that much, the incorrectness should still be considered the gold standard right.

Too many INFINITY mirrors. ZHUBL-that is one He@@ of a Locomotive you got!!! Nick

Shawn_Chronister posted:

Hot Water posted:

TrainMan1225 posted:

Hot Water posted:

TrainMan1225 posted:

Hot Water posted:

Why does it have green class lights?  I thought Lionel went to white class lights on freight locomotives, quite some years ago?

I never saw them. My Legacy H10 (technically H9) has green class lights. (My apologies for the figures, I got bored)

I was referring to the Vision Line "scale" steam locomotive models. At least I THOUGHT that Lionel stopped using those silly green class lights on the "high end" freight locomotive models.

 

If you're talking Vision Line steam locomotives only, then those also never had white class lights since the very first Vision models, the Santa Fe 2-10-10-2 and the PRR CC2. I don't think regular Legacy steam locomotives ever had white class lights either.

Well, that's a darned shame. I thought that Lionel had tried to become more prototypical with their top of the line steam locomotive models. Apparently not. My mistake.

Hot Water it seems they are having a tough time with the prototypical part from what I have seen with this model. It suppose to match the excursion version which had silver centers on the pilot wheels and painted silver bearing caps on the trailing truck but that was a miss too. Oh and the incorrect sounds and class lights. But hey this did not cost that much, the incorrectness should still be considered the gold standard right.

I haven't seen but one locomotive with white markers. That is the s-3 these are the newer 2017? Versions but the 2011 version was also that way

Green class lights are prototypical, means a second section of the scheduled train is following. White lights mean the train is extra, not in the schedule.  What I would like is for Lionel to put multi color LEDs in the class lights, so you could control the color from your remote.

Hot Water posted:

Why does it have green class lights?  I thought Lionel went to white class lights on freight locomotives, quite some years ago?

Wasn't  this locomotive brought out to compliment the passenger set also?  Maybe it was a coin toss.

Received mine last night.  There was a loose screw in the box.  Thankfully it came of the hinge for the apron between the boiler and the tender.  Oiled and smoke fluid added.  Boy what a wonderful engine.  I would not note the synchronized drivers had this not been brought up.

I've seen another topic on the forum.  It appears they can be sent in to be reconfigured.  I will call Lionel this morning to ask.  I'm not sure this bugs me to the point of sending it in.  The loco is flawless as it sits.  I have reservations with the amount of handling the unit will get in transport to and fro.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Received mine last night.  There was a loose screw in the box.  Thankfully it came of the hinge for the apron between the boiler and the tender.  Oiled and smoke fluid added.  Boy what a wonderful engine.  I would not note the synchronized drivers had this not been brought up.

I've seen another topic on the forum.  It appears they can be sent in to be reconfigured.  I will call Lionel this morning to ask.  I'm not sure this bugs me to the point of sending it in.  The loco is flawless as it sits.  I have reservations with the amount of handling the unit will get in transport to and fro.

Its not the drivers that is the issue its the fact the sound does represent the syncopated chuff the simple articulated locomotive is suppose to exhibit,

Shawn_Chronister posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Received mine last night.  There was a loose screw in the box.  Thankfully it came of the hinge for the apron between the boiler and the tender.  Oiled and smoke fluid added.  Boy what a wonderful engine.  I would not note the synchronized drivers had this not been brought up.

I've seen another topic on the forum.  It appears they can be sent in to be reconfigured.  I will call Lionel this morning to ask.  I'm not sure this bugs me to the point of sending it in.  The loco is flawless as it sits.  I have reservations with the amount of handling the unit will get in transport to and fro.

Its not the drivers that is the issue its the fact the sound does represent the syncopated chuff the simple articulated locomotive is suppose to exhibit,

Not sure I understand your comment.  Basically, are you saying they are correct as shipped?  If yes, I will not send it in.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Shawn_Chronister posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Received mine last night.  There was a loose screw in the box.  Thankfully it came of the hinge for the apron between the boiler and the tender.  Oiled and smoke fluid added.  Boy what a wonderful engine.  I would not note the synchronized drivers had this not been brought up.

I've seen another topic on the forum.  It appears they can be sent in to be reconfigured.  I will call Lionel this morning to ask.  I'm not sure this bugs me to the point of sending it in.  The loco is flawless as it sits.  I have reservations with the amount of handling the unit will get in transport to and fro.

Its not the drivers that is the issue its the fact the sound does represent the syncopated chuff the simple articulated locomotive is suppose to exhibit,

Not sure I understand your comment.  Basically, are you saying they are correct as shipped?  If yes, I will not send it in.

No they are not correct the insync drivers have nothing to do with the fact the syncopated chuff is not there. There are videos on here in another thread that clearly show the sound is not correct. 

Shawn_Chronister posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Shawn_Chronister posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Received mine last night.  There was a loose screw in the box.  Thankfully it came of the hinge for the apron between the boiler and the tender.  Oiled and smoke fluid added.  Boy what a wonderful engine.  I would not note the synchronized drivers had this not been brought up.

I've seen another topic on the forum.  It appears they can be sent in to be reconfigured.  I will call Lionel this morning to ask.  I'm not sure this bugs me to the point of sending it in.  The loco is flawless as it sits.  I have reservations with the amount of handling the unit will get in transport to and fro.

Its not the drivers that is the issue its the fact the sound does represent the syncopated chuff the simple articulated locomotive is suppose to exhibit,

Not sure I understand your comment.  Basically, are you saying they are correct as shipped?  If yes, I will not send it in.

No they are not correct the insync drivers have nothing to do with the fact the syncopated chuff is not there. There are videos on here in another thread that clearly show the sound is not correct. 

It's academics then, they go in.

FWIW, when emails were new and exciting, everybody jumped on them.  No so much today.  I have found a new use for my smartphone.  Use it as a telephone.  Lionel is answering their calls as I type and will handle an RMA issue.  Number is 586-949-4100.  Say hi to Katie or Kristen.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Shawn_Chronister posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Shawn_Chronister posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Received mine last night.  There was a loose screw in the box.  Thankfully it came of the hinge for the apron between the boiler and the tender.  Oiled and smoke fluid added.  Boy what a wonderful engine.  I would not note the synchronized drivers had this not been brought up.

I've seen another topic on the forum.  It appears they can be sent in to be reconfigured.  I will call Lionel this morning to ask.  I'm not sure this bugs me to the point of sending it in.  The loco is flawless as it sits.  I have reservations with the amount of handling the unit will get in transport to and fro.

Its not the drivers that is the issue its the fact the sound does represent the syncopated chuff the simple articulated locomotive is suppose to exhibit,

Not sure I understand your comment.  Basically, are you saying they are correct as shipped?  If yes, I will not send it in.

No they are not correct the insync drivers have nothing to do with the fact the syncopated chuff is not there. There are videos on here in another thread that clearly show the sound is not correct. 

It's academics then, they go in.

FWIW, when emails were new and exciting, everybody jumped on them.  No so much today.  I have found a new use for my smartphone.  Use it as a telephone.  Lionel is answering their calls as I type and will handle an RMA issue.  Number is 586-949-4100.  Say hi to Katie or Kristen.

Emails are now the new Hold (ignore) button. They put you on hold still and hang up on you but you can at least get a name usually.

I also noticed that tender on my 3985 doesn't work. No sounds, no function, no nothing out of it. The engine works fine by the way. What shall I do to fix this?

Peter Araujo posted:

I also noticed that tender on my 3985 doesn't work. No sounds, no function, no nothing out of it. The engine works fine by the way. What shall I do to fix this?

Did it ever work?  Mine worked for a day and then went completely dead.  No lights or sounds.   I ran it anyway for a few hours and then, all of a sudden, while it was running it came back to life.  I had performed several engine resets, but nothing had worked until it decided all by itself to work again.  The engine section had no problems, just the tender.

No rear coupler either? Then check the drawbar IR alignment. If the coupler works, check the volume pot adjustment.

JFC454 posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

I also noticed that tender on my 3985 doesn't work. No sounds, no function, no nothing out of it. The engine works fine by the way. What shall I do to fix this?

Did it ever work?  Mine worked for a day and then went completely dead.  No lights or sounds.   I ran it anyway for a few hours and then, all of a sudden, while it was running it came back to life.  I had performed several engine resets, but nothing had worked until it decided all by itself to work again.  The engine section had no problems, just the tender.

The tender never worked.

The more I read, the more I say "I got to buy some of these."

They don't call it a "Challenger" for nothing.  Truth in labeling.

John

Send it in to be fixed! Call Lionel

Laidoffsick posted:

Send it in to be fixed! Call Lionel

I'll call them up on Monday, and maybe consider changing the sounds with articulated sounds as well.

I am sad they didn't use the sound files from the Original Challenger. That whistle has to much Reverb and the chuff sound seem weak for a large loco.

Here are two quick photos of the LCCA version a club member got. Note blacked side rods. And I am disappointed to report unlike my 3985 the screws had came out of the pilot deck and it was lose and a pice for the coupler cut bar had came off. Was easy to get put back on. Also one screw came out of the deck. While this should not be the case as we all know for a VL locomotive it is good that it was probably just a rough shipping on the screws. Oh and also the top die cast pice was popped out. Was surprised of this. Again all easy fixes and nothing to get high strung about. Beautiful engine. 

Bruk posted:

I am sad they didn't use the sound files from the Original Challenger. That whistle has to much Reverb and the chuff sound seem weak for a large loco.

Maybe that's the articulated sound set they're putting into the returns.  One wonders who was making the decisions on the sound files...

I had loose screws on the front pilot of the Challenger that caused it to droop, drop, etc.  I had to tighten two screws under the front before running.  The engine also had a front rail out of its deck post.  I will need to re-glue it.

The Engineer's side rear driver Ground Movement LED light does not light.  The LED needs to be re-connected or replaced.  This is disappointing to need to send an engine that Lionel inspected, back to Lionel.  I have had to send some engines back three times for service, and have had engines sustain damaged from multiple shipping.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Rowlen posted:

I had loose screws on the front pilot of the Challenger that caused it to droop, drop, etc.  I had to tighten two screws under the front before running.  The engine also had a front rail out of its deck post.  I will need to re-glue it.

The Engineer's side rear driver Ground Movement LED light does not light.  The LED needs to be re-connected or replaced.  This is disappointing to need to send an engine that Lionel inspected, back to Lionel.  I have had to send some engines back three times for service, and have had engines sustain damaged from multiple shipping.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Quality everyone is fine with!!!!! What I want to know is how there all these problem but the is a big Quality Checked sticker on all these boxes?????

I found that the power plug came out of the socket on the tender sound board.  This meant no coupler, no lights, and no sound from the tender.

The bundle of wires inside the tender is pulled tightly, and pulled the power plug out of its socket during shipping.  I had to pull a little more power cable out of the wire bundle and re-plug it into the sound board.

I also added one of Gunrunner Johns YLB Batteries #10510 to the tender,  It eliminated the sound drop-out of the tender when going over my Atlas O switches. See photos of installation. Note that the power plug has not yet been plugged back into the sound board.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

zhubl posted:

Here are two quick photos of the LCCA version a club member got. Note blacked side rods. And I am disappointed to report unlike my 3985 the screws had came out of the pilot deck and it was lose and a pice for the coupler cut bar had came off. Was easy to get put back on. Also one screw came out of the deck. While this should not be the case as we all know for a VL locomotive it is good that it was probably just a rough shipping on the screws. Oh and also the top die cast pice was popped out. Was surprised of this. Again all easy fixes and nothing to get high strung about. Beautiful engine. 

Thanks for the pictures.  That Greyhound paint scheme looks amazing on the Challenger.  Looking forward to receiving my #3977 this week!

JFC454 posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

I also noticed that tender on my 3985 doesn't work. No sounds, no function, no nothing out of it. The engine works fine by the way. What shall I do to fix this?

Did it ever work?  Mine worked for a day and then went completely dead.  No lights or sounds.   I ran it anyway for a few hours and then, all of a sudden, while it was running it came back to life.  I had performed several engine resets, but nothing had worked until it decided all by itself to work again.  The engine section had no problems, just the tender.

A little update: I just fixed mine yesterday. I gave the tender itself a little kickstart with my Z4000 transformer, and that did the trick. Now the tender works properly as it should.

Peter Araujo posted:

JFC454 posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

I also noticed that tender on my 3985 doesn't work. No sounds, no function, no nothing out of it. The engine works fine by the way. What shall I do to fix this?

Did it ever work?  Mine worked for a day and then went completely dead.  No lights or sounds.   I ran it anyway for a few hours and then, all of a sudden, while it was running it came back to life.  I had performed several engine resets, but nothing had worked until it decided all by itself to work again.  The engine section had no problems, just the tender.

A little update: I just fixed mine yesterday. I gave the tender itself a little kickstart with my Z4000 transformer, and that did the trick. Now the tender works properly as it should.

What, exactly, do you mean by gave the tender a kick start?

If mine has problems I will ask dealer for a replacement.  Hopefully won't have to  - will know tomorrow.

😎

Harold

BRUK,  

My 1931250 Greyhound Challenger #3977 had a soft chuff when I first put it on the layout.

You can turn up the chuff volume by holding "aux 1" and pressing the "Volume Up" key on the Legacy remote. It takes repeat "Volume Up" presses to raise the chuff while holding aux 1.  Raise it a little at a time.  I had to raise my chuff sound a little, even after turning the engine volume control under the Challenger Dome to 90%.  I try not to set volumes at 100% to avoid speaker distortion.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Berkshire President posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

JFC454 posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

I also noticed that tender on my 3985 doesn't work. No sounds, no function, no nothing out of it. The engine works fine by the way. What shall I do to fix this?

Did it ever work?  Mine worked for a day and then went completely dead.  No lights or sounds.   I ran it anyway for a few hours and then, all of a sudden, while it was running it came back to life.  I had performed several engine resets, but nothing had worked until it decided all by itself to work again.  The engine section had no problems, just the tender.

A little update: I just fixed mine yesterday. I gave the tender itself a little kickstart with my Z4000 transformer, and that did the trick. Now the tender works properly as it should.

What, exactly, do you mean by gave the tender a kick start?

I placed the tender on the tracks, and applied 18-20 volts of power to the track.

Peter Araujo posted:

I placed the tender on the tracks, and applied 22 volts of power to the track.

YIKES!   This is a VERY bad idea!  Max voltage specification for Legacy is 19V.  I can't imagine how over voltage "fixed" anything, clearly there was actually nothing wrong.

I think I heard him say “Ok you dog...take this!!” when he hit it with the 22 volts.

And it'll be better when the Auxiliary tenders come in October.

Peter Araujo posted:

And it'll be better when the Auxiliary tenders come in October.

Except that the current UP auxiliary water tenders have been completely rebuilt, more than 10 years ago, and thus the models no longer represent the prototype.

Peter,  I would be curious if the power plug to the tender sound board is making/not making contact because the wires have a lot of tension from the bundled wrap inside the tender and pull on the contacts.  You might want to check the plug the next time the tender acts up.  I had to pull a little extra gray power wire from the bundle and re-plug it into the sound board.  It is fine now.

I would not go over 18 volts on Legacy equipment.  I run my ZWL at 17 volts with the 990 Remote.

I like my eggs fried, but not my engine boards.

Sincerely, John Rowlen