Couple of us have already contacted @MrMuffin'sTrains. He’s interested but if Lionel agrees he will need at least 50 orders for it to happen. Here’s a video and a few pics. Post below if interested.
you can see the different shades of green. I want that style of lettering Kline used What’s it called? Kind of like the darker green on my MTH Hudson
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Whose model is the one in your top two photos Gary? I like the darker tender and green on that one as well. We have the K-Line model at our club and I find the light green 'odd' more often than not. They have an amazing level of detail however and are beautiful locomotives!
I am offering my similar B&M Legacy Berk in the FS thread if anyone wants one NOW :-)
Tops to photos are a HO engine, you can find in my other thread about where the berk whistle is located
I’d be interested
Just curious, what is the prototype history of the green B&A berk? I recently picked up one of the K-Line ones. I am set on getting one of the Vision Class A engines and I want to pick up a few other things, but I'd add this to the list of serious contenders for things I'd consider.
I spoke with Mr Muffin about this as well. I’m in!
I thought you were referring to a solar or wind powered loco with a title of:
@0-Gauge CJ posted:Just curious, what is the prototype history of the green B&A berk? I recently picked up one of the K-Line ones. I am set on getting one of the Vision Class A engines and I want to pick up a few other things, but I'd add this to the list of serious contenders for things I'd consider.
Most of the history. Has been lost to time. I’ve been told one berk and one Hudson were painted this way for some special event in the late 30’s. Others have stated it was normal practice for several engines to be painted this way. Their are no known color pics of this. Most if not all in the know have left us. So were berks Hudson painted this way on the B&A? To some extent yes.
I think I'd be concerned about the color with Lionel. Can you spec out the paint in advance?
50 pieces is a huge investment. Hope the project comes together.
@MichRR714 posted:I think I'd be concerned about the color with Lionel. Can you spec out the paint in advance?
50 pieces is a huge investment. Hope the project comes together.
I could be wrong, but I believe dealers have a little more say/control when it’s a custom run for them. At least that’s what I’ve been told.
@MichRR714 posted:I think I'd be concerned about the color with Lionel.
Me too. Lionel Great Northern green(s):
( not my photos)
I said I'd be interested Gary and here I am to say that again. I haven't been feeling well this weekend, but nothing serious. I'm on board.
I was able to find some "informal" paint information for an issue of a B&A O gauge Hudson. Evidently, the green color of the boiler and that of the tender differed. I referred the manufacturer to Bob Buck, now deceased, who owned Tucker's Hobbies. Bob saw these engines as a boy and, as a photographer and modeler, was able to view the manufacturer's samples of various greens and made that decision for them. (I originally received this manufacturer request as a Director of the NYCSHS.) This FWIW. I never followed up with Buck to try to determine how many Hudsons and Berkshires were painted this color. My understanding, however, is that it was more common on B&A Hudsons "as delivered". I do not have any information re how many, if any, Berks were painted in these shades of green.
@Hudson5432 posted:I was able to find some "informal" paint information for an issue of a B&A O gauge Hudson. Evidently, the green color of the boiler and that of the tender differed. I referred the manufacturer to Bob Buck, now deceased, who owned Tucker's Hobbies. Bob saw these engines as a boy and, as a photographer and modeler, was able to view the manufacturer's samples of various greens and made that decision for them. (I originally received this manufacturer request as a Director of the NYCSHS.) This FWIW. I never followed up with Buck to try to determine how many Hudsons and Berkshires were painted this color. My understanding, however, is that it was more common on B&A Hudsons "as delivered". I do not have any information re how many, if any, Berks were painted in these shades of green.
Cool story, ….soooo,…which mfr. got it right?..
Pat
MTH
BW photos online of the prototype 1426 Berk look like a lighter shade than the color of the MTH Hudson’s, more like the k-line Berk, but who knows. I’d post the photo here but it’ll get deleted since it’s not mine. Personally, I prefer the k-line green because it stands out.
Before we worry about the color, we’ll have to just get enough orders for the minimum.
One for me.
-Brian
If Mr Muffin does it, I’m in
@superwarp1 posted:Couple of us have already contacted @MrMuffin'sTrains. He’s interested but if Lionel agrees he will need at least 50 orders for it to happen. Here’s a video and a few pics. Post below if interested.
you can see the different shades of green. I want that style of lettering Kline used What’s it called? Kind of like the darker green on my MTH Hudson
Something to bring to Steve’s (Mr Muffins) attention is that the sand dome, & all the other piping & parts are all supposed to be black on this Berk. Only the boiler & the cylinders are green. K-line & MTH didn’t do this model correctly. The brass loco is correct. And I definitely think the darker green & darker silver for the front is the way to go. Let’s hope it happens! Cheers.
DJ
Seeing no color photos exist of this scheme or if a Berkshire was even painted this way. It’s hard to say What shades are correct. That brass model is a few years old and retailed for around $2500.00. I can’t imagine Lionel going to that level of detail paint wise. I hope you guys can get one made. Harry could probably detail one up like that. That brass version has to be one of the sharpest looking freight steamers ever made.
@Dave_C posted:Seeing no color photos exist of this scheme or if a Berkshire was even painted this way. It’s hard to say What shades are correct. That brass model is a few years old and retailed for around $2500.00. I can’t imagine Lionel going to that level of detail paint wise. I hope you guys can get one made. Harry could probably detail one up like that. That brass version has to be one of the sharpest looking freight steamers ever made.
These were indeed painted this way, and if Kline could get it close, why can’t it be done today?…..any painter worth his salt could accomplish this, …..it’s not an ancient Chinese secret…..😉
Pat
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:Something to bring to Steve’s (Mr Muffins) attention is that the sand dome, & all the other piping & parts are all supposed to be black on this Berk. Only the boiler & the cylinders are green. K-line & MTH didn’t do this model correctly. The brass loco is correct. And I definitely think the darker green & darker silver for the front is the way to go. Let’s hope it happens! Cheers.
DJ
That would be fantastic, but I doubt you’d see that level of detail happen on a 3 rail die cast model…..especially on cast in details……not to say it can’t be done, but more than likely not happening ….so break out your finest pinstriping brush and go to town….😉
Pat
I'm just waiting for Steve to pop up and say "We're green lit" and ready to roll. With the catalog being somewhat of a yawn I guess you could say for me, this would be the best thing to come out from it. Now does that mean I'm sidelining the Class A? Well, sort of. Having a green Berkshire done up by Steve really puts it in a class by itself. I just can't wait.
Any idea of how many our number of interested folks in the green are at? I'm sure Steve would pick up one for himself as he always likes to have something that is his idea or project.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Any idea of how many our number of interested folks in the green are at? I'm sure Steve would pick up one for himself as he always likes to have something that is his idea or project.
No clue, haven't heard anything from @MrMuffin'sTrains since Friday. I think he's also working on a special run for the Class A as well.
@superwarp1 posted:No clue, haven't heard anything from @MrMuffin'sTrains since Friday. I think he's also working on a special run for the Class A as well.
Well, Steve is the miracle man as far as I'm concerned. He just sees the right things to do. I really would have been interesting if he could have gotten Lionel to bite on his Mohawk idea. They said no way right from go. It would have been something.
I’m confident Steve will get to 50 of these. But worst case scenario, I’d think Harry could custom paint sone of the black B&A units. His work is top notch
The only thing I would ad is don't use road number 1426. I more than likely will keep my Kline berks.
A short tender would be awesome!!!!!
@superwarp1 posted:The only thing I would ad is don't use road number 1426. I more than likely will keep my Kline berks.
A short tender would be awesome!!!!!
Make sure Steve knows that unless you already told him Gary.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Make sure Steve knows that unless you already told him Gary.
A new road number is great. Do we know what other road numbers were green? From what I can see, maybe 1425 and 1442?
@EricTrainMan posted:A new road number is great. Do we know what other road numbers were green? From what I can see, maybe 1425 and 1442?
No clue as I haven't talked with Steve. Whatever it would be would definitely be something that is searchable and real. Steve likes to get as real as possible. He cheated just a bit with the Pacific's in the last catalog, but it was somewhat close enough for some.
Well, we got the word from Lionel today and we are in for a green B&A Berkshire.... not added to my website yet - but will be - what road number? I hear the no #1426
We have a few more custom runs they have scheduled for us - more on that soon!
I’m in! Can’t wait.
Thank you, Steve!
-Brian
Hope Lionel uses the MTH molds of the NYC berkshire --the one that looks a bit like a niagara --sometime soon
@20centuryhudson posted:Hope Lionel uses the MTH molds of the NYC berkshire --the one that looks a bit like a niagara --sometime soon
The MTH P&LE Berk is a completely different model,…….
Pat
@MrMuffin'sTrains posted:Well, we got the word from Lionel today and we are in for a green B&A Berkshire.... not added to my website yet - but will be - what road number? I hear the no #1426
We have a few more custom runs they have scheduled for us - more on that soon!
#1425 would be fine or pic it out of a hat. No one knows which engines were painted green anyway. Can we have Roman lettering (font style) also????
Again, thanks for going to all the trouble. Now to decide if I should get it weathered?????
Now we need to bug Lionel for a proper caboose. This is the third run of this engine over the last twenty years. Kline didn't do a proper caboose, Lionel hasn't and it's about time. I'm going to bug Ryan when I see them in 1 1/2 weeks. Need others as well.
yes I know its different--just saying I hope they make it with all the Lionel features--its still classified as a berkshire
I don't know enough about the B&A, so I'll stick with Gary on the number.
Nice work Gary! This is an interesting thread. I hope these turn out great for all those peordering.
Who better than Mr. Muffins to make this happen!
Slightly off topic but this version would get me to open my wallet. SP bought ten of them from the B&M and then converted them to oil using this tender. Homely beasts but I love them. Lionel’s version is also correct as they were used for a short time burning coal.
Pete
@RickO posted:Nice work Gary! This is an interesting thread. I hope these turn out great for all those peordering.
Who better than Mr. Muffins to make this happen!
Steve is the man. I messaged him last night about the no 1426 number, he responded very quickly which I didn't think he would until today. Gotta love Mr. Muffin.
@Norton posted:Slightly off topic but this version would get me to open my wallet. SP bought ten of them from the B&A and then converted them to oil using this tender. Homely beasts but I love them. Lionel’s version is also correct as they were used for a short time burning coal.
Pete
You mean the B&M
I'm getting excited over this engine. Very few engines of color in my fleet, mostly black. It'll be interesting to have a green monster running around the rails. Makes me wonder if the Hudson's come back around if would could get a green B&A like what Gary had talked about once before(I believe).
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I'm getting excited over this engine. Very few engines of color in my fleet, mostly black. It'll be interesting to have a green monster running around the rails. Makes me wonder if the Hudson's come back around if would could get a green B&A like what Gary had talked about once before(I believe).
Yes, my MTH B&A hudson which is green. More than likely I wouldn't be in for another one. I had that engine converted to Legacy and she's a dream to run.
Again a big Thankyou to @MrMuffin'sTrains for doing all these special runs and to Lionel for seeing there's a market for special runs.
Now just have to wait for Steve to pop it up on the website, pictures to start with, then the artwork. Hope this thing is a wonderous beauty just waiting for us. I can't wait. Good thing I'm ordering light again in the catalog. I wouldn't have ordered the as cataloged B&A engine, as it just looks to unexciting.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Now just have to wait for Steve to pop it up on the website, pictures to start with, then the artwork. Hope this thing is a wonderous beauty just waiting for us. I can't wait. Good thing I'm ordering light again in the catalog. I wouldn't have ordered the as cataloged B&A engine, as it just looks to unexciting.
My black Kline berk is in dire need of a weathering job, the one in the catalog would look great weathered.
@superwarp1 posted:My black Kline berk is in dire need of a weathering job, the one in the catalog would look great weathered.
I'm not in to weathering, but I know if you want it, Harry is the weather master.
It appears the, a, or at least one of Lionels factories, actually has the K Line version in its display case.
If the K Line green is accurate, maybe they would use it for reference. Go to 1:04:
Here you go, reservation is up.
Green Berkshire ordering page.
Thanks again @MrMuffin'sTrains When is the drop dead date for orders? Weathering service through Harry?
My pre order is in!
Certainly hope they research the color extensively as for me personally, this 'K-Line Green' is rather unsightly after awhile. Ours sits on the club layout most of the time and looks somewhat odd at times. Hopefully it is closer to the beautiful HO model that Gary posted earlier. Just my personal opinion fellas...
@Norton posted:Slightly off topic but this version would get me to open my wallet. SP bought ten of them from the B&M and then converted them to oil using this tender. Homely beasts but I love them. Lionel’s version is also correct as they were used for a short time burning coal.
Pete
I always keep my fingers crossed that a whaleback tender shows up someday. Lucky for us Dave Olson is a SP fan and, I think sometime in the future, we will get one.
-Brian
@Valpac posted:I always keep my fingers crossed that a whaleback tender shows up someday. Lucky for us Dave Olson is a SP fan and, I think sometime in the future, we will get one.
-Brian
3rd Rail has done one but the boat sailed before I was aware of it.
Pete
Mine is in too. Thanks Gary for posting the link, thank you @MrMuffin'sTrains Steve for doing what you always do, the best things in life for model Railroaders, you rock.
@c.sam posted:Certainly hope they research the color extensively as for me personally, this 'K-Line Green' is rather unsightly after awhile. Ours sits on the club layout most of the time and looks somewhat odd at times. Hopefully it is closer to the beautiful HO model that Gary posted earlier. Just my personal opinion fellas...
Same I do like that green.
Once the quota for orders is met, that is when we should be seeing the artwork for this locomotive if I'm not mistaken. That is going to be something else. We'll just have to wait and hold our breath until the color comes to page, then to the model.
Now that this engine is a go pending reservations. If you want to see this engine in action I highly recommend this DVD. Want to see these Berks in action in the hills they are named after, this is it.
I’ve got a few of the A&R DVD’s. The B&A one has some great footage. The Central Vermont ones are a good watch. I believe it was one of the New Haven ones that had some bonus footage at the end. A B&A Berk. struggling up a hill with a Mikado pusher on the rear. The Mike had a switching style tender. It was probably just used in pusher service or on locals. I purchased the parts for the tender Lionel’s 1/2 off sale. This is something I really want to duplicate on my RR. Just need a donor Legacy Mike. Someday it will get done.
I'll have to catch that when I get back Gary. Got some running around this morning. Thanks again for heading this up with other and getting Steve's attention.
@superwarp1 posted:Same I do like that green.
I like this green too, question is will the engine be painted like the K line model where “everything past the smoke box is green, or like the brass model, only the boiler jacket & cylinders are green. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the brass model is much more accurate to the prototype
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:I like this green too, question is will the engine be painted like the K line model where “everything past the smoke box is green, or like the brass model, only the boiler jacket & cylinders are green. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the brass model is much more accurate to the prototype
It will be painted like the Kline version. It's beyond Lionel's capability to paint individual parts like the brass model. MR. Muffin has asked Harry Heike on what he can do so stay tuned.
@superwarp1 posted:It will be painted like the Kline version. It's beyond Lionel's capability to paint individual parts like the brass model. MR. Muffin has asked Harry Heike on what he can do so stay tuned.
Ok great.
It will be painted like the Kline version. It's beyond Lionel's capability to paint individual parts like the brass model. MR. Muffin has asked Harry Heike on what he can do so stay tuned.
So I’m glad Steve is inquiring with Harry to enhance these models but what I don’t understand is why is it beyond lionels capacity to just do a green boiler jacket. They did it with the VL challenger, and they do it all the time with non vision engines. Take a look at this uncataloged legacy Russian iron blue camelback just released not long ago by the NLOE. Not trying to stirr the pot. I’m just trying to understand.
That's something you would have to bring up with Lionel. I can only repeat what I've been told.
I'm not understanding also with that pic. If they can do it with one why not the other. Complexity with all the piping in the way maybe?
@superwarp1 posted:That's something you would have to bring up with Lionel. I can only repeat what I've been told.
I'm not understanding also with that pic. If they can do it with one why not the other. Complexity with all the piping in the way maybe?
I’m going to email Ryan
I'd sign up for one if it will be fully and correctly decorated from Lionel.
Crank
@superwarp1 posted:That's something you would have to bring up with Lionel. I can only repeat what I've been told.
I'm not understanding also with that pic. If they can do it with one why not the other. Complexity with all the piping in the way maybe?
Ryan replied basically saying he’s willing to do what customers want and is waiting on artwork. He encouraged me to reach out to Steve. Artwork for custom runs comes from the dealers. I sent Steve another email showing him the pics I posted on here. Hopefully we can get the model to look more accurate.
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:Ryan replied basically saying he’s willing to do what customers want and is waiting on artwork. He encouraged me to reach out to Steve. Artwork for custom runs comes from the dealers. I sent Steve another email showing him the pics I posted on here. Hopefully we can get the model to look more accurate.
Awesome thanks.
I have just seen the Lionel's artist rendition of the green berk from Mr Muffins. I can say you all are going to be very very happy with the final product.
@superwarp1 posted:I have just seen the Lionel's artist rendition of the green berk from Mr Muffins. I can say you all are going to be very very happy with the final product.
Steve sent this to me as well. If Lionel delivers on the artwork it’ll be an incredible engine!
I hope he gets enough interest for you guys. An email I got recently made it sound that he was still short on getting some of the custom runs done.
@superwarp1 posted:I have just seen the Lionel's artist rendition of the green berk from Mr Muffins. I can say you all are going to be very very happy with the final product.
Yeah, I just looked at it as well and am pretty happy. I guess by next week we'll have the number on orders as I asked and we all know Steve will respond where things stand sometime then.
I think he might have sent the full artwork to all preorders (I got it as well). The artwork is also up on the pre order listing on his site.
@MartyE posted:I hope he gets enough interest for you guys. An email I got recently made it sound that he was still short on getting some of the custom runs done.
I ask and it’s getting made
@Wingrunr21 posted:I think he might have sent the full artwork to all preorders (I got it as well). The artwork is also up on the pre order listing on his site.
I didn’t want to step on anyones toes so I didn’t post Figure mr muffins would sooner or later
@superwarp1 posted:I didn’t want to step on anyones toes so I didn’t post Figure mr muffins would sooner or later
Totally. Hopefully folks going to Mr Muffin's site is ok there.
@superwarp1 posted:I ask and it’s getting made
Glad to read that this one is getting made, waiting to hear if the custom run I preordered made the cut.
@EricTrainMan posted:Steve sent this to me as well. If Lionel delivers on the artwork it’ll be an incredible engine!
Yes it will. Unfortunately there is always the possibility of differences like in the case of the J3A from a couple years ago.
I'm happy to see this rendition and I'll likely sign up for one. That said, the designated Pantone green shade, 7491c, seems a little dull in comparison to this
Just my opinion, but I'd like to see Lionel reconsider and make a real show stopper.
Crank
Super excited about this... I am near 40 orders now, so if you want one, please preorder it so I know how many I will need to have Lionel make.
When I first read your title I thought you were posting about a lithium ion battery powered engine charged with renewable Green energy !
I love green engines and trains like the Southern Pacific steamer trains too.
Charlie
@MrMuffin'sTrains posted:
Super excited about this... I am near 40 orders now, so if you want one, please preorder it so I know how many I will need to have Lionel make.
Steve, you are the bomb. So far, this will make my 4th custom run purchase that you offered. Nothing makes me happier than something that is unique and a great project. You see what should be and make it happen. As long as you keep doing what you're doing, I will always be interested in purchasing a custom run(as long as I have money, lol).
The really two great things about Mr. Muffin are his ability to think outside the box and his ability to convince others to his cause (passion for trains).
Atlas, Lionel and MTH should have him on their payroll.
Spectacular!!! Thank you Steve & all the muffins! This is my 2nd custom muffin.
@MrMuffin'sTrains posted:Super excited about this... I am near 40 orders now, so if you want one, please preorder it so I know how many I will need to have Lionel make.
Nice work Steve. Glad everyone is stepping up that wants one!
@MartyE posted:Nice work Steve. Glad everyone is stepping up that wants one!
I'm wondering how the catalog version is going to fair sales wise? I kind of need a second one for lashups
@Norton posted:Slightly off topic but this version would get me to open my wallet. SP bought ten of them from the B&M and then converted them to oil using this tender. Homely beasts but I love them. Lionel’s version is also correct as they were used for a short time burning coal.
Pete
Seems to me that the latest Lionel version of the SP/ATSF ex-B&M Berk cheats by using the B&A boiler casting with the Coffin hung on the front rather than the Elesco, unlike the original K-Line versions that used the correct, different boiler castings. Or, maybe I'm just having "catalogue blindness".
(No, I just looked - the catalogue shows the B&A boiler on the B&M/ATSF/SP locos, which is incorrect, Coffin or not.)
Sure would like a whaleback tender, though.
SP did receive the Coffin feedwater versions. There is an HO Balboa model on the auction site that shall not be named now. I also have pics but of course can’t post here. It kept its coal tender until the 50s, then the whaleback when converted to oil and finally the coffin heater was removed at the end.
Pete
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Steve, you are the bomb. So far, this will make my 4th custom run purchase that you offered. Nothing makes me happier than something that is unique and a great project. You see what should be and make it happen. As long as you keep doing what you're doing, I will always be interested in purchasing a custom run(as long as I have money, lol).
Think Gary (superwarp1) is the one to thank for idea to produce this one.
@Arthur posted:Think Gary (superwarp1) is the one to thank for idea to produce this one.
It was a group effort. I can’t say I was the first to email Steve but I was one of many.
@Norton posted:SP did receive the Coffin feedwater versions. There is an HO Balboa model on the auction site that shall not be named now. I also have pics but of course can’t post here. It kept its coal tender until the 50s, then the whaleback when converted to oil and finally the coffin heater was removed at the end.
Pete
Whaleback tender would be nice and a correct early short tender for the B&A would be nice also but you figure with the prices we are paying these days it wouldn’t be to much to ask for a not mass produced tender done to save a few bucks.
@Arthur posted:Think Gary (superwarp1) is the one to thank for idea to produce this one.
Yeah, Gary was one of the select few to put the words to Steve's ears. I would never take away what someone put forth to get things rolling. The great thing is that Steve is going forward to get it made with Lionel. I know Steve has tried a few ideas that were his own, some have obviously made it, others have not. I do also know that there has been a great number of suggestions on engines(and other things) to any number of dealers to try and get things made. Sometimes it's a hit, other times it doesn't get made. I really would have liked to have seen a Mr. Muffin's custom Mohawk, but Lionel told him a flat out no.
@superwarp1 posted:Whaleback tender would be nice and a correct early short tender for the B&A would be nice also but you figure with the prices we are paying these days it wouldn’t be to much to ask for a not mass produced tender done to save a few bucks.
I don’t see Lionel doing one unless it was a hybrid. No other applications for it except a few other SP engines like a Mogul.
I am hoping a 3rd Rail one comes along anyway.
Pete
Well the wife gave the ok and I just put the order in.
@Trainwreck nate posted:Well the wife gave the ok and I just put the order in.
She's a keeper. Glad you are on board.
Really excited about this project - we are over 40 now..... how many extras should I make?.... BTW, if you want to order the black one, and have already ordered the green one, use discount code "SecondBerk" for an additional discount on the black version (2231340). I can't post the discount here - violates Lionel's rules - but once it's in your cart, you can see it.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Yeah, Gary was one of the select few to put the words to Steve's ears. I would never take away what someone put forth to get things rolling. The great thing is that Steve is going forward to get it made with Lionel. I know Steve has tried a few ideas that were his own, some have obviously made it, others have not. I do also know that there has been a great number of suggestions on engines(and other things) to any number of dealers to try and get things made. Sometimes it's a hit, other times it doesn't get made. I really would have liked to have seen a Mr. Muffin's custom Mohawk, but Lionel told him a flat out no.
Just to be clear, and fair, sometimes when Lionel says "no" to something I propose it's because they have plans to run it themselves in a future catalog. I don't think it's fair to them to disclose that model by model - theirs's to tell - but it's all pretty exciting. I just want to see the thing get made, whether it's cataloged in the future or a special run.
Diesels outsell steam, and we know that, so I don't get how all of the SD40-2's I have proposed from this catalog, and previous catalogs, don't get much interest.
@MrMuffin'sTrains posted:Diesels outsell steam, and we know that, so I don't get how all of the SD40-2's I have proposed from this catalog, and previous catalogs, don't get much interest.
Just a guess, but with the 3RD Rail SD40-2 engines possibly making it into production in 2022 that might have something to do with it.
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