Two posts above "I'm not an ED member".. What is ED?
I know they sell pills for it on TV but this ED must be different.
Tom Tee posted:Two posts above "I'm not an ED member".. What is ED?
I know they sell pills for it on TV but this ED must be different.
Eastern Division of the TCA.
Never seen an explanation as to why hours were so weird, unless it was imposition of religion (l haven't found the area under Blue Laws, which my state was too long burdened with) Almost every other trainshow (Wheaton, etc.) is open Sunday for working stiffs. Must be something l don't know.
It's never been on Sunday, to the best of my knowledge, but I've only been going since 1997.
Supposedly the days had something to do with arrangements with the fairgrounds (possibly selling Sunday to other events, etc.), but only those who run the meet have the actual story and how it is right now.
From the vendor's perspective, many use Sunday to travel long distances back home to actually be open for business on Monday, so a lot would not like Sunday, as they would then need to be closed on Monday while traveling.
Obviously the hours/days evolved when Thursday was added.
-Dave
OK, I'm watching this and the other treads on the York meet and here we are reinventing the wheel for the umpteenth time again on how this and that that does or doesn't work and how the ED needs to run the show. If I remember correctly, it was either the big dealers or the manufacturers (or both) that wanted the show expanded to Thursday in the first place. Once that happened, then there was the push to allow the public to attend. So these things happened and certain people still aren't happy. So now, on this and another tread, there are people who have either heard rumors or actually know something but have to keep secrets for whatever reason. If you know something, just say what it is already. This "I know something and you don't" is like being back in grade school.
Like to improve the York meet? How about wider aisles in the member halls? 
I was also not impressed with the way everyone got the "bums rush" out of the Orange hall before the official closing time! I think they need to deal with that. That's the first time I ever remember then wanting EVERYONE out before the closing time, including the dealers!
In my opinion and I have only been going to York for 41 years, Is to keep the MEET on Thursday, but open it earlier, maybe around 10am. As for the meet being once a year, that is stupid. Who wants to wait a full year. OGR wants it that way to save money. If they give up Saturday, the tables holders will close up early on Friday. The retired people and that is most of the people, have more money to spend that the younger people. Please don't go to once a year. I can't wait that long, & I am sure others feel the same, stupid idea. If the meet goes back to Friday & Saturday the bandit shows will get bigger. This thread happens after every York. I like the idea that the fee will go up in April to $15. for everyone . That will help the ED. As for the Yellow hall returning, I have no idea what's up with that. I have more to say, but I will wait.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Like to improve the York meet? How about wider aisles in the member halls?
I was also not impressed with the way everyone got the "bums rush" out of the Orange hall before the official closing time! I think they need to deal with that. That's the first time I ever remember then wanting EVERYONE out before the closing time, including the dealers!
I may be mistaken, but I believe that dynamic (for both member halls and dealer halls - but key being table holders need to be out as well) changed maybe a year or 2 ago.
Rumors at the time suggested it had something to do with being charged overtime for the guards if anyone was still inside even one minute past the closing bell.
That was pretty ridiculous with the lights being shut most of the way off so early. It was especially comical that the announcement of when the halls would close happened around 30 seconds before they shut most of the lights off (around 15 minutes before close, IIRC). They've been dimming many of the lights early to get people out for a while now, but Friday's timing seemed more extreme.
-Dave
Here are a couple of my thoughts:
1. The regular attendees at York are not getting younger. The York show needs to attract a new and younger/family audience. Other train shows are successful at doing this by having operating layouts, other kid-oriented attractions and/or kid operated layouts interspersed with the dealers.
2. The early "clear the building" announcement interrupted a sale that I was making on Thursday and effectively closed business around twenty minutes early on Friday when the late afternoon shopping still seemed dynamic to me. That should never happen again.
3. I would recommend that the show begin and at the same time on at least Thursday and Friday. That way, bus groups get a "full" day on Thursday and there is no confusion about starting times. Any more that 8 hours a day is a hardship on many dealers.
4. A national advertising campaign to let the non-TCA enthusiasts know that they are welcome on Friday and Saturday needs to start NOW for April. Print deadlines for January- March publications are fast approaching. "York" is both a noun and a verb, but it seems to me that the general public is still either unaware of the event or still feels excluded because of decades of previous exclusivity.
5. Packing early is not an issue if vendors/dealers are making sales. The show promoter must work hard to attract an audience to fill a venue for all days that they collect fees from and expect attendance by their vendors. I am of the opinion that the York vendors in total bring an incredible variety of train products for viewing, discussion and purchase.
Eddie, I been going for only 33 tears, I have to agree with you on opening the meet at 10 on thursday, and keep the other days as is.
Todds Architectural Models posted:
4. A national advertising campaign to let the non-TCA enthusiasts know that they are welcome on Friday and Saturday needs to start NOW for April. Print deadlines for January- March publications are fast approaching. "York" is both a noun and a verb, but it seems to me that the general public is still either unaware of the event or still feels excluded because of decades of previous exclusivity.
I have to agree with this. When in the dealer halls, I didn’t see very many people with the wrist bands on they give out to the public on Friday and Saturday. The people with badges significantly outnumbered those with wrist bands. Don’t get me wrong, I think having York as a members only event is great. However, the amount of members attending the meet continues to dwindle every spring and fall. More advertising at least for the general public side of the meet could help get the word out more resulting in more people attending and an increase in people joining the TCA to see the rest of the meet.
The YELLOW HALL?
The cold, unheated, dank, dark and crowded "basement" of the grandstand? Oh sure...that will help improve this meet/show.
Been there. Done that. No one in their right mind would want to set up a booth in that dump.
Good grief. 
FORMER OGR CEO - RETIRED posted:The YELLOW HALL?
The cold, unheated, dank, dark and crowded "basement" of the grandstand? Oh sure...that will help improve this meet/show.
Been there. Done that. No one in their right mind would want to set up a booth in that dump.
Good grief.
The Fairgrounds is thinking of upgrading the Yellow Hall and asking its regular customers if they would have a use for it. It wasn't Eastern Divisions idea but they are now thinking of ways to use it. Right now the thought is to use it to attract Model Railroaders who currently have little interest in what goes on there now, including HO and N where the majority of model railroaders are.
Folks here have been saying for years that ED has to make the show more like The Big E or the Great American Train show.
Nothing is written in stone at this point so give it a chance.
Pete
eddie g posted:As for the meet being once a year, that is stupid. Who wants to wait a full year. OGR wants it that way to save money. If they give up Saturday, the tables holders will close up early on Friday. The retired people and that is most of the people, have more money to spend that the younger people.
Well, let's see. I have attended a great many once-a-year events hosted by a large number of national train clubs and such (various scales) and I have had no real problem waiting for the next round. Try Trainfest in Milwaukee, for example, or the NMRA National Convention and its related show held in a different city each year. And there are plenty of others.
"OGR wants it that way to save money?" Hmm. . . I doubt we are anywhere near alone in that regard. I can name a good number of manufacturers and suppliers that feels the same way, not to mention independent dealers who are continually faced with economic uncertainty in a changing hobby, economy, and society. Yep, saving money from a business perspective is not really a bad thing.
Good to know that "retired people . . . have more money to spend. . . ." I'm not so sure that is necessariyl true anymore, if it ever was. But aside from that, a good number of retired people who have been in the hobby for a reasonably long time have pretty much already acquired most or all of the trains they have sought or can use or even house. Many have already recognized the finite limits of our time on this planet, and determined that it is to their advantage to enjoy and make use of what they have rather than see relatives give it all away a couple of weeks after the hobbyist is planted. I can't begin to tell you how many folks I talk to who tell me they come to York now almost exclusively for the social experience it provides, and how many tell me they are cutting back to one time a year simply because it is becoming cost prohibitive due to increased real-world expenses such as health care costs and a myriad of other things that are not matched by increases in pensions or Social Security.
The point is, there are a whole lot of things to be considered by ANY hobby organization operating in today's fast-paced and fast-changing society. There are no simple solutions.
Some sudden thoughts and second thoughts.
**Talking about the attendance at train shows in general, the Saturday/Sunday format always seems to draw the large crowds. The vendors who attend those shows don’t seem to have a problem with being there Sunday. Why is the York Meet any different? Maybe because those vendors are more localized? Does it matter if they are making sales?
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Someone asked: “What is the meaning of life?” Some random dude replied: “To give life a meaning.”
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**We must remember that the York Meet is organized and operated by the volunteer members of the TCA Eastern Division. Only they can decide how to run their event. The Eastern Division members interests should be served first. Also remember that the TCA itself was founded by a group of guys who just wanted to share, trade, buy and sell their trains. It wasn’t created to be a vessel for vendors, dealers and manufacturers/importers to make money. They joined up and became part of the landscape. They have enhanced the Meet greatly, but at some point began to think they are the driving force.
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“When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all”
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**The Eastern Division folks, nor anyone else, will never be able to make everyone happy. Those who dislike how it’s run or the location or the days and times are going to say the Meet is dying. Those who find their coveted treasures will say how great it is. So if it boils down to making money, wouldn’t you think sellers would want to be there when the buyers would be? It’s a vicious cycle. Members wishes vs. the sellers vs. attendees. My suggestion; Friday, Saturday and Sunday 9-5. Friday would be for members only as well as 9am to noon on Saturday. Noon Saturday until close on Sunday for the non member public. I don’t get the argument about dealers worried about getting home before Monday to open their store when they are getting to York on Tuesday or Wednesday for the rest of the week. Aren’t they worried about being open on those days too?
**The Yellow Hall/Grandstand possibly being reopened is puzzling. It is and was a dungeon of a facility. The only reason I tolerated going there was because the newer trains were housed there. But if the building will be refurbished or remodeled or whatever for future use, maybe it could be a viable space. But as far as the York Meet use, for who, for what? May be a good idea to house vendors of the smaller scales to bring in more public and possibly increase membership. But will those interested in the smaller scales venture over to the other Halls to be exposed to O gauge? Or will they stay in the Yellow? Maybe spread out all scales of modern production throughout the Orange, Purple and the Yellow Halls for maximum exposure.
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”No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.”
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**We can accumulate all kinds of ideas, but ultimately it’s the Eastern Division members that will decide. And whatever they decide will be just fine with me. (Except for making the Meet only once a year)
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Me and my friends were waiting for a bus for about an hour and a half — with an old man standing a bit away from us at the same bus stop.
Finally, we can see the bus coming, and my friend says, “Oh finally, the bus is coming,” and the old man just turns to us and says, “The bus was always coming.”
Being a newbie to the hobby and this being only my third time at the show I see valid points of both of moving days and keeping days. I’m lucky I only live 20 minutes from the show and work only 10 minutes away, so I can take a half day of work and still attend on Thursday. I’m also lucky enough to get 7 weeks vacation at 43 years old. The thought of getting more families to attend when the current show days are I don’t see it happenening especially the way current employers are with vacation ( again I’m lucky). I came from the farm toy hobby and a lot of those local shows were 9 to 2 on Saturdays with the National show being a few days long. I like that there is one day for members only so you don’t have a lot of extra people just milling about clogging the aisle ways. I did here a vendor in the purple hall wanted more room and they couldn’t give him more room in that hall so he had a stand in the purple and orange halls. I did see a small add in the local newspaper I believe on Thursday morning.
Traindiesel posted:**We must remember that the York Meet is organized and operated by the volunteer members of the TCA Eastern Division. Only they can decide how to run their event. The Eastern Division members interests should be served first. Also remember that the TCA itself was founded by a group of guys who just wanted to share, trade, buy and sell their trains. It wasn’t created to be a vessel for vendors, dealers and manufacturers/importers to make money. They joined up and became part of the landscape. They have enhanced the Meet greatly, but at some point began to think they are the driving force.
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**The Eastern Division folks, nor anyone else, will never be able to make everyone happy.
**The Yellow Hall/Grandstand possibly being reopened is puzzling.
**We can accumulate all kinds of ideas, but ultimately it’s the Eastern Division members that will decide. And whatever they decide will be just fine
A fine post! Thank you.
The Yellow hall is just being talked about to use for HO. Nothing for sure yet. The member attendance was over 9,000. That does not include the public.
Are numbers for public gonna be released?...l didn't pay attention to times/days public was admitted
"It wasn’t created to be a vessel for vendors, dealers and manufacturers/importers to make money. They joined up and became part of the landscape. They have enhanced the Meet greatly, but at some point began to think they are the driving force."
Yes, in the early years it was a genuine, no-frills train MEET--a place for collectors to gather in order to buy/sell/trade trains and share information. But that was some time ago, and I would assert that today, in part because of the significant revenue they provide to the division, but also because increasing numbers of participants in the hobby are actually doing something with their trains rather than simply placing them on shelves, the manufacturers, after-market suppliers, dealers, and vendors ARE pretty much the driving force. Take them out of the mix and I think you might have a rather significant problem to deal with. I could be wrong about that, but who can say for sure?
