anyone owns a 3rd rail PRR S1 or Q2 duplex?

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January 16, 2013 2:25 AM

Just wanting to know if there anyone in this site owns one of these 3rd rail PRR S1 and Q2 Duplex..?.. I feel like im kind alone in this area.

 

 

 
 
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January 16, 2013 8:18 AM

I have one of the S1's. I bought it at an live auction as well as several other 3rd rail locomotives.It's a beautiful locomotive and a decent runner so far.Due to it's length,it likes 081 or larger.I also have MTH's and Lionel's versions.They will run on 072.The 3rd rail model has a superior level of detail.The MTH model of the S1 runs the smoothest and the Lionel model has superior sounds.

 

I have a dozen other 3rd rail steam locomotives.They are great looking models and very fine runners once broken in.Because they are hand crafted brass with tons of added on details,they are delicate and not for everyone.

 

 

 

 

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January 16, 2013 8:36 AM

I have and regularly run 3rd Rail Q2, Q1 and T1 duplexes.  The S1 is just too big for my O72 mainline curves.  I tested one here when they first came out and chose not to buy it.  All of my duplexes have been reworked with Cruise Commanders and RailSounds (Lionel T1 sounds in the T1, Lionel S1 sounds in the Q's).  They run great and are real crowd pleasers.  

 
 
 
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January 16, 2013 8:51 AM

have two of the 3rd RAIL Q2 duplex and the they have not been a problem. 

 Run them in conventional control using the factory QSI DCRU.

Run one without traction tires.

Here is a video.

 

 

 Charlie

South Jersey

 

 

 
 
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January 16, 2013 8:59 AM

I have three 3rd Rail PRR streamers.....The 2-10-0. the E-6, and the Q. I love 'em all.....great detail.....smooth runners. I'd love to get the S-1 someday. Tom

 
 
 
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January 16, 2013 12:28 PM

Had a 2-rail Q2 for several years.  Excellent detail and overall appearance.  Very good runner.  Price vs quality it was one of the best.

 
 
 
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January 16, 2013 1:30 PM

I was fortunate to get the S1 and Q2.  Both have been run on my Atlas track with few problems.  My curves are for the most part O-72 and greater except for an O-63 reverse loop and an inside track on a 2 tracked trestle which is also  O-63.  I have not run these engines on these curves.

I think that larger engines such as these need excellent track work to operate flawlessly.  Initially,I did have a problem with the S1 at a homosote joint that would give due to the weight of the engine.  Once this spot was bolstered and track spacings were optomized the engine ran quite well.

I can say the same of the Q1 and J1a.

 

Norm Rish

 

 

 
 
 
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January 16, 2013 1:41 PM

I have all three.....but because I have since acquired the MTH S-1, I will sell the 3rd rail version ONLY because I like the sounds from the MTH model.  My 3rd Rail version is mint and has never run...been in a display case its entire life so far.

 

Alan

 
 
 
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January 16, 2013 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by leavingtracks:

I have all three.....but because I have since acquired the MTH S-1, I will sell the 3rd rail version ONLY because I like the sounds from the MTH model.  My 3rd Rail version is mint and has never run...been in a display case its entire life so far.

 

Alan

why dont you put the mth sound system in your 3rd S1..And after seeing the diecast proublems there having..ill stick to brass trains..more better detailed and dont crumble like diecast..saw a thread on that subject.. I dont care for the mth S1 sound because for a big engine to have a whimpy whistel .I do have the MTH proto 1 C&NW E4 hudson sound in it now for time being unitl i get the cash to do Errc with lionel S1 sound board.. Lionel S1 sound is the best..has whistel and air horn that MTH doesnt have..have no proublems to get her running 72"curves....Norm whats a homosote joint are you talking about?where at?..I know with this S1 I can change the belt gears to pull more or go faster on the track..

 

 

 
 
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January 16, 2013 3:07 PM

 
Originally Posted by joseywales:
 
"And after seeing the diecast proublems there having..ill stick to brass trains..more better detailed and dont crumble like diecast"
 
While I agree with you that most brass locomotives have very fine detail.The vast majority of diecast locomotives do not "Crumble". Millions and millions of postwar Lionel and American Flyer locomotives prove that as well as 99.99% of modern die cast locomotives.
 

 

 

 

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January 16, 2013 3:30 PM

There was a spot where 2 sections of homosote came together that was 'soft'.  This was also where 2 pieces of Atlas track and road bed came together.  When the leading truck came to this spot the track would dip ever so slightly causing the leading trucks to derail.  My solution was to put a thin sliver of wood under the road bed and change the track so that they were  joined at a different place.

 
 
 
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January 16, 2013 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by Norm:

There was a spot where 2 sections of homosote came together that was 'soft'.  This was also where 2 pieces of Atlas track and road bed came together.  When the leading truck came to this spot the track would dip ever so slightly causing the leading trucks to derail.  My solution was to put a thin sliver of wood under the road bed and change the track so that they were  joined at a different place.

I'd put a spring on my front truck..there so called brass rod as a spring is a joke..boomer I was talking about the newer trains that arent US made..=china made..Post war are made in USA quality and inspected..

 

 

 
 
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January 16, 2013 6:46 PM

Hello guys and gals.....

 

I quit buying newer die-cast lomotives for the very same reason ( casting blisters,out gassing, crumbling) and bought my first sunset 3rd brass engine which i am very happy. The postwar,LTI, MPC era lionels dont have this problem with the die-casting.  The chinese make junk die-casting,shame on them.

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

 
 
 
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January 16, 2013 6:55 PM

Amazing! I must have 30 or more MTH or Lionel (only 5 Lionel actually) die-cast steam locomotive models, and have absolutely NO ISSUES what so ever.

 
 
 
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January 16, 2013 8:25 PM

In my case,a stabilization of the base was the obvious correction: I probably should have taken more track out and replaced an entire section of homosote.  I opted for a quick fix that has worked for me.  Since then I have had no problems at that area of track.  The S1 or Q2 were not the problem,they are fine.  I have other large 3rd Rail engines that have navigated that area quite successfully such as the Z-8,Big 6,and others.

In retrospect this repair to my little railroad was just like repairing the Pennsy Mainline that ran not too far from my home as a boy.  Upkeep.

 
 
 
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January 16, 2013 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by Tiffany:

Hello guys and gals.....

 

I quit buying newer die-cast lomotives for the very same reason ( casting blisters,out gassing, crumbling) and bought my first sunset 3rd brass engine which i am very happy. The postwar,LTI, MPC era lionels dont have this problem with the die-casting.  The chinese make junk die-casting,shame on them.

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

Tiffany,this is NOT true of 99.99% of the Chinese and Korean diecast locomotives,we had an extensive thread/discussion on this a few weeks ago.

 

 

 

 

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January 16, 2013 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by Hot Water:

Amazing! I must have 30 or more MTH or Lionel (only 5 Lionel actually) die-cast steam locomotive models, and have absolutely NO ISSUES what so ever.

I have over 300 die cast scale steam locos going back to the early 90's.No problems with ANY of the die castings whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

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January 17, 2013 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Boomer:
Originally Posted by Hot Water:

Amazing! I must have 30 or more MTH or Lionel (only 5 Lionel actually) die-cast steam locomotive models, and have absolutely NO ISSUES what so ever.

I have over 300 die cast scale steam locos going back to the early 90's.No problems with ANY of the die castings whatsoever.

then your one of the luckyones ..After seeing that thread..one guy has the scale lionel s2 turbine that is blistering badly..man im glad I didnt forkout 1200.00 when it first came out...lousy puller too.. My 3rd rail S2 turbine pulls good..The proublem is ,as Id said keeping trains stored in the attic and basements isnt a good idea since both places have moister..=can cause corrtion.. New stuff isnt made with love and care and pride that we build in the US..Thats why the postwar stuff can take a beating and has lasted for a long time too..

 

 

 
 
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January 17, 2013 3:10 AM

Hello Boomer........

 

Then explain why i had big blisters on the boiler casting of my #30-1156-1 railking 2-8-8-2 mallet ?  I bought it new in the box back in 2000 and in 2007,i found big blisters on it (the side piping areas and few on the top) as i thought they were paint defects but it wasn't and is hard so it couldn't be paint.  I don't store my trains in the attic because we live in a apt.  The another down side of die-cast engines are the wheel sets with flanges, they are made of die-cast too which means the flanges are soft and worse for wear and tear.  There has been past posted threads of the die-cast flanges wearing out and becoming sharp edged like knife is after long running hours.  The sunset 3rd locomotives have "coined" brass centers which are harden and the tires with the flanges are one piece carbon steel machined with grooves for traction tires on the rear and none on the front, try it with a magnet.  The steel flanges lasts longer on the sunset engines and that is a hard fact, ask the other sunset 3rd owners........even as yourself have some of the sunset engines too so you would know this.   Don't get me wrong,most of us like die-cast if it is "cast" right then it will last as i will still buy passenger cars with die-cast trucks and couplers and when they go bad, it is easy to replace them but not expensive modern day die-cast locomotive bodies which requires a exchange with paying for replacement and shipping with lionel and mth.  I suggested that you check your die-cast engines CAREFULLY and CLOSE, you might find a few but if not then your'e one lucky guy and your word of "99.99%" stands high and mighty. 

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

 
 
 
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January 17, 2013 6:21 AM

Originally Posted by Tiffany:

Hello Boomer........

 

Then explain why i had big blisters on the boiler casting of my #30-1156-1 railking 2-8-8-2 mallet ?  I bought it new in the box back in 2000 and in 2007,i found big blisters on it (the side piping areas and few on the top) as i thought they were paint defects but it wasn't and is hard so it couldn't be paint.  I don't store my trains in the attic because we live in a apt.  The another down side of die-cast engines are the wheel sets with flanges, they are made of die-cast too which means the flanges are soft and worse for wear and tear.  There has been past posted threads of the die-cast flanges wearing out and becoming sharp edged like knife is after long running hours.  The sunset 3rd locomotives have "coined" brass centers which are harden and the tires with the flanges are one piece carbon steel machined with grooves for traction tires on the rear and none on the front, try it with a magnet.  The steel flanges lasts longer on the sunset engines and that is a hard fact, ask the other sunset 3rd owners........even as yourself have some of the sunset engines too so you would know this.   Don't get me wrong,most of us like die-cast if it is "cast" right then it will last as i will still buy passenger cars with die-cast trucks and couplers and when they go bad, it is easy to replace them but not expensive modern day die-cast locomotive bodies which requires a exchange with paying for replacement and shipping with lionel and mth.  I suggested that you check your die-cast engines CAREFULLY and CLOSE, you might find a few but if not then your'e one lucky guy and your word of "99.99%" stands high and mighty. 

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

I didn't say there were NO problems with die-cast,there have been ISOLATED problems.

I personally have had no problems with any of my die cast locomotives,I have had isolated cases with some cast ladders,truck and couplers on a few pieces of brand new rolling stock. I have inspected all my locomotives,steam,diesel and electric-so far,so good.I have hundreds of pieces of rolling stock packed away that I have never opened.Chances are good that I will find some problems.

 

Take a look at my posts when we discussed this a few weeks ago. I stand by my numbers. Read what I wrote and you'll understand.

 

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/d...9987964467247/page/1

 

I am glad you are enjoying your 3rd rail locomotive,there are lots of pros to owning brass locomotives. I've been purchasing examples of 3rd rail's older back production because of this.I always enjoy your posts and insight into our wonderful hobby.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Proud member of the Mid America 3 Railers and the TCA.

Last edited by Boomer January 17, 2013 7:53 AM
 
 
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January 17, 2013 12:25 PM

Hello Boomer......

 

I went back and read your thread (the thread few weeks ago) again and understand now.  

Thank you 

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

 
 
 
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January 17, 2013 2:43 PM

but im still skeptical about buying new trains that are made in china..Brass engines are on my list for now..unless I find a super deal..or we start seeing train made in the US again.

 

 

Last edited by joseywales January 17, 2013 2:50 PM
 
 
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January 17, 2013 4:05 PM

Hello guys and gals,joseywales....

 

I am too but stopped buying modern die-cast locomotives after finding that the sunset brass engines are far better made.  I understand Boomer's thread but its not enough for me to go back to buying them again because of the risks.  I say that chinese still makes die-cast junk.  Postwar,MPC,LTI and america flyer die-cast locomotives are less risky.

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

 
 
 
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January 20, 2013 1:18 PM

 I have a Q2 that I bought on ebay years ago. It had a busted drawbar, which I made a new one out of brass stock. It works great and as mentioned before runs beautifully. I will say like a well oiled sewing machine, very smooth. It only has the QSI sound, which for me is enough.

  Looking to get a T1 (probably Lionel) as I really like that version and had one before.

Al

 
 
 
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January 20, 2013 7:24 PM

Hello Trainman2001.....

 

That is a very nice brass locomotive collection you have 

 

the woman who loves theS.F.5011

Tiffany 

 
 
 
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January 20, 2013 7:30 PM

Originally Posted by albertstrains:

  Looking to get a T1 (probably Lionel) as I really like that version and had one before.

Al

The Sunset/3rd Rail PRR T1 is the best on the market, no mater which version you get. However, those models are old enough that they are congenital/QSI only. I had mine up-graded to TMCC, and it operates VERY nicely and will pull a VERY long train.

 
 
 
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January 20, 2013 11:07 PM

Thanks Tiffany!

 

Like I said, I'm still missing a couple of Pennsy's crazy, big engines, the Q1 and the S2 Turbine. Needless to say they only had one each of them and they weren't very successful so I won't bother chasing them. The S-1 was a one-off engine two, but led to the T-1.

 

These big engines, even though they say O-72, barely look good on O-96. I wish I was working with O-120 or higher, but it takes great amounts of real estate. I can get a lot of length with my new design, but I'm restricted in width to 15 feet. Oh well... we all have our limitations.

 
 
 
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January 20, 2013 11:44 PM

 Hot Water,

 I would like to see which versions they put out. I like the Lionel version with most of the streamlining removed. I will have to remind myself what the 3rd Rail versions look like.

  I have hardly seen any 3rd Rail T1's for sale now or in the past.

 I am very pleased with the Q2 I have. They seem to go for a resonable price used.

 Al

 
 
 
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January 21, 2013 12:03 AM

Hello Trainman2001......

 

Youre very welcome Smile.    My sunset 3rd S.F.5011 will go on 0-72 but looks silly doing it and the space we have room is 0-80 or little tiny bit more oh well.  Is there much differences between 0-72 and 0-80,0-82 as we are planing to buy 0-80 or 0-82 but not sure how much more it will help in reducing the overhang ?  I think the sunset 3rd PRR J-1 2-10-4 is the same leigth as the S.F. 5011?  

 

The woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

 

 
Last edited by Tiffany January 21, 2013 12:09 AM
 
 
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January 21, 2013 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by Tiffany:

Hello Trainman2001......

 

Youre very welcome Smile.    My sunset 3rd S.F.5011 will go on 0-72 but looks silly doing it and the space we have room is 0-80 or little tiny bit more oh well.  Is there much differences between 0-72 and 0-80,0-82 as we are planing to buy 0-80 or 0-82 but not sure how much more it will help in reducing the overhang ?  I think the sunset 3rd PRR J-1 2-10-4 is the same leigth as the S.F. 5011?  

 

The woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

 

tiffany im running mine on o72 11x18 in the living room  on the floor..its better then nothing..its in a small 2 bedroom apartment.

 

 

 
 
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January 21, 2013 2:54 PM

Hello Trainman2001,joseywales

 

We don't have a layout so we run the trains on the carpet in the living room as we live in a apt.  Space is a problem and use 0-72 realtrax and wondering if we should invest in the 0-82 curves as we already have straights.  Is there much differences between 0-72 and 0-82 as far as overhang is concern.  We are running a Sunset 3rd S.F.5011 2-10-4. We agree its better than nothing.

 

The woman who loves the S.F.5011

Tiffany 

 
Last edited by Tiffany January 21, 2013 2:59 PM
 
 
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January 21, 2013 4:27 PM

Every size bigger helps reduce overhang. There will always be overhang even with a wider curve than that. When you realize how wide prototype curves really are, there is literally no way with O'gauge for us to even approach it. We do our best. That's why our hi-rail engines have those small pilot truck wheels. They have to swing all the way under the cylinders. In real life, they barely move.

 
 
 
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January 23, 2013 1:26 PM

want to ask you guys on this..wanted to put a PRR wing decal on my S1 like the ones I've seen on paintings Of the S1..wanted to get your input on it..

 

 

 
 
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January 23, 2013 1:33 PM

It's not prototypical.Google "Pennsylvania S-1" and you won't see the wings on any of the actual photographs of the S-1.The streamlined PRR K4 had them and it does look pretty cool however.Whatever floats your boat.It's your locomotive.

 

 

 

 

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January 23, 2013 2:49 PM

I have the Sunset S1 and T1. Both run fine and are very striking and beautiful to look at, but the S1 is so very long and heavy that any defect in your trackwork like a dip in the rail can cause the pilot to drop onto the rails and subsequently short out the engine from touching both ground and hot rails at the same time. And I agree that O-72 is marginal at best for these monsters despite the nominal manufacturer rating. They meant it when they designated "minimum radius O-72"!

 
 
 
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January 23, 2013 3:32 PM

That's a pretty steep compound curve over the nose. You may have to use decal softening solution to help it conform to the curve without wrinkling.

 
 
 
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January 23, 2013 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Trainman2001:

That's a pretty steep compound curve over the nose. You may have to use decal softening solution to help it conform to the curve without wrinkling.

Maybe that's why the real one never had it!

 
 
 
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January 23, 2013 4:20 PM

The decal looks like it would not be much of a problem to apply

 

 

prr3768

 

 Charlie

South Jersey

 

 

 
 
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January 23, 2013 7:17 PM

That K4 nose is considerably flatter than the S1's. It's a shame you can't find or make a metal one that can be formed around the bend like the K's.

 
 
 
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January 23, 2013 7:50 PM

The Weaver brass models have metal nose emblems.

 

 

k4ray 006

 

 Charlie

South Jersey

 

 

 
 
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