Buyer...Beware!!!

If I offer You a train Item, I back it up, and that's the way it is....Do I make mistakes, yes, do I correct my errors, Yes.... I belong to the TCA, LCCA, Atlas O Charter Member...........This is a fun hobby, Lets keep it fun.....We all BUY and SELL Trains, in order to buy newer ones.....Buyer Beware is Correct..... Great Post, Merry Christmas.....

You did not mention if the seller accepted returns. If he did not, you would still be covered under ebay's buyer protection. As soon as you noticed it was not "new" as described, you should have contacted both the seller and ebay that you were returning the item for a full refund. However, you may have had to pay return shipping. 

What you should have done was to return the engine to the seller for a full refund. That would have been the end of it.

I had a problem with something I bought on eBay once.  eBay told me to contact seller and see if we could work it out.  I did and we did agree on a refund to my PayPal acct.  He credited my acct the agreed upon amount and that was that.  Soooooo, what's the big deal?  I don't remember any additional fees on my end.

And, wait a minute, I sold an item and credited the buyer some money due to shipping being less than I quoted and there wasn't any fees charged to me.  Unless things have changed  he should have just credited your PayPal acct and that would be that.

I have also bought things listed as NEW and were covered with dust in a sealed box.  LOL  How does that happen?  But, not everyone is honest.  I guess it's just part of life.

Rick

One more thing, someone above mentioned return shipping.  Some buyers know that if return shipping is say $20.00 or more you won't return it.  Knowing that you don't want to be in for $20 or more dollars on top of what you paid already.  If the repairs needed are acceptable to you and you an repair it easily just keep it and ask for a refund.

NEVER send paypal via friends & family.  No recourse and it is fraud, you could lose your ebay account. If you have a nice record but are willing to start over with a different username, then go ahead.

If the seller wants 3% more if you use paypal, then pay that way. If a sense, that is fraud too. Gas stations can offer a discount for cash, but they can't penalize you for using a card by adding on money to cover their expenses.

I have had issues both as a buyer and seller and worked them out without filing a claim. The seller doesn't have much protection.

As far as a forum member, who knows, that's why you want recourse. I think people should just state a price and say there is a 3% discount if you send me a money order. It also depends on the price. If it is a $10 item and the seller wants an extra 3% then......rant

I think he wanted claim cancelled to lift the "Freeze" on his account so he could refund me.  But I wasn't taking that chance beings that I'm on the Atlantic Ocean, seller is on the Pacific Ocean and we will never encounter each other again.

GVDobler posted:

NEVER send paypal via friends & family.  No recourse and it is fraud, you could lose your ebay account. If you have a nice record but are willing to start over with a different username, then go ahead.

If the seller wants 3% more if you use paypal, then pay that way. If a sense, that is fraud too. Gas stations can offer a discount for cash, but they can't penalize you for using a card by adding on money to cover their expenses.

I have had issues both as a buyer and seller and worked them out without filing a claim. The seller doesn't have much protection.

As far as a forum member, who knows, that's why you want recourse. I think people should just state a price and say there is a 3% discount if you send me a money order. It also depends on the price. If it is a $10 item and the seller wants an extra 3% then......rant

Some of the above is not true anymore...here is a quote from a consumer site in regard to credit card surcharges:

"Can a merchant charge more (or add a fee) for using a credit card?

Yes, they can — and that’s a relatively new thing. Since a legal settlement in 2013, merchants have been able to charge their customers additional surcharges for paying with a credit card.

There are conditions, though, and lots of them. Merchants can only charge so high a fee relative to the average annual cost of transactions. There are variable maximums for how high the fee can be. Merchants can only charge so much for one card (MasterCard or Visa) depending on what their agreements with competing products (Visa or MasterCard) say. The fee only applies to credit cards, and not to debit cards.

And on top of all that, the law varies from state to state. Visa has a flowchart (PDF) for their merchants that lists the ten states where surcharges are illegal. In 2013, those states were California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, and Texas."

I would be curious to see what the add looked like, how good the photos were. Additionally 100% feedback is good, but can be a "grey area" if the seller doesn't primarily sell trains. I.E. someone who usually sells doll toys or baseball cards gets ahold of a legacy loco at an estate sale.

Someone not involved in the hobby would think any die cast loco is "new" . Things like photos of the wear on the wheels and pickup rollers, or looking for black marks/oil /oxidation on the drive rod linkage are some evidence of use.

Everyone touts "I'm not payin that for a new one, I'll wait for one to come up on the second hand market at a discount".

Thats great, but theres a risk. I prefer to buy all of my "big ticket items" new from a dealer, using ebay for rolling stock etc.

No guarantees for honesty here on the forum either although there are several folks that have established a good reputation and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from.  At the same time these folks offer outstanding deals.

Anywhoo, if you get your money back from this seller than no issue, I"d take it as a lesson learned.

I've only ever had 3 products bought on the auction site that were not exactly what I expected them to be.  One was a photo printer that was in the wrong box and sold as the product on the box.  The seller refunded fully and paid return shipping with no hassle.  The second was an MTH Railking allegheny where it turned out the gears were stripped on one truck and the tether was bad.  Seller and I worked out an arrangement over a couple messages and they refunded me an agreed upon amount with no hassle.  Lastly I bought a DVD set of a season of a TV show once, and received a counterfeit item.  Not a bad copy, but it was obvious that it was not genuine.   Seller claimed it was legit and refused to refund.  Probably could have made a claim, but didn't really care enough over $15, considering all 6 disks did work fine.  

When it comes to credit cards, merchants have a bit more leeway than with pay-pal, but according to the statement my card services provider sent me, I can not charge different amounts for  different forms of payment, but I CAN tell my customers what way I prefer for them to pay and what it costs me to accept various forms of payment.

The last thing to note is to agree that the friends and family option should be used strictly for that purpose.  using it is the same as handing over cash and leaves you with no form of protection.  In addition it is just blatantly dishonest, and any seller that asks you to pay in a dishonest way is not worth doing business with.  In addition, it is a violation of Pay-Pal's terms of service to ask a buyer to pay the 3% pay-pal charges the seller.  

I would be VERY, VERY cautious of ANY seller that starts out a deal by asking you to assist in committing FRAUD and STEALING,  from another business.  This would be bad enough in private email, but is just disgusting when asked in a public listing.  

For folks that don't care about the buyer/seller protection a service like Pay-Pal provides, there are other, often free, services out there that allow the transfer of money from one person.  these behave as cash transfers and the companies will never get involved in a dispute, but a service like "CASH" from Square will let you honestly transfer funds from one person to another without fees.  

In this story it sounds like 3% well spent by both parties as it provided a fairly straight forward way to resolve the problem.  The seller may or may not have been trying to cheat the buyer, or cheat the fees, but having recourse seems worth it to me.  

JGL

^{"The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles."  -  A.R. 1966}

I agree on the 3% charge or asking for the friends and family deal. there has been at least a dozen items on this forum that I was very interested in and the price was right but I passed because they wanted the friends and family transfer. On a big ticket item of 1000 it's 30.00 which is a lot. If you can't handle it add the 30 to the price. JMHO

Ron

Who is the seller on E Bay we are talking about??????Wait,let me guess,you don't have the Chutzpah to implicate the seller.Why do people want to rant and rave about somebody that they feel did them wrong but at the same time wish to protect the person?PS I agree with you RAILFANRON.

I would like to share a story with you, it may help. I went through the PayPal / ebay process for a refund and won the process. I purchased a King Silver Sonic Cornet, that cost over $1000.00, this took place about seven years ago. I think the process is still about the same. You have to show proof for your claim.

I faxed in to PayPal, 3 letters on company letter head. (1) From a H.S. Band Director. (2) Music Store Manager. (3) Professional Musician / Instructor.  I ask the seller if the horn had the original lacquered finish and he said yes.

The horn was re-lacquered and it changed the tone quality of the horn. Had photos to show the issues.

If you can get some type of proof from experts like a local hobby shop or member of a model railroad club, & photos, this can bring you a win

Good Luck, hope this helps.

rockstars1989 posted:

Who is the seller on E Bay we are talking about??????Wait,let me guess,you don't have the Chutzpah to implicate the seller.Why do people want to rant and rave about somebody that they feel did them wrong but at the same time wish to protect the person?PS I agree with you RAILFANRON.

Most likely because it is a violation of OGR's terms of service to out someone by name.  

I agree on the 3% charge or asking for the friends and family deal. there has been at least a dozen items on this forum that I was very interested in and the price was right but I passed because they wanted the friends and family transfer. On a big ticket item of 1000 it's 30.00 which is a lot. If you can't handle it add the 30 to the price. JMHO

People ask for the 3 percent because they want to list their items at the lowest price possible. If you want the item, and feel that using friends and family is inappropriate, then pay the extra 3 percent. If not, then don't buy it.

As soon as you noticed it was not "new" as described, you should have contacted both the seller and ebay that you were returning the item for a full refund. However, you may have had to pay return shipping.

Had this happen to me with a non-train item.
When I contacted the seller, he offered a price adjustment, which was not of interest to me.
The seller had to pay return shipping, and refund my entire purchase price, including the original shipping.

I am another one who does not patronize sellers who want the "Family and Friends" discount.  I figure if they are dishonest enough to require that, what else is wrong with the sale?  Like RAILFANRON pointed out, if a seller can't absorb the 3%, he can  advertise the price 3% higher.  I've always absorbed it when selling; 3% strikes me as a reasonable charge for the all-around protections.

When buying on ebay I always expect the worst and price purchases with that in mind. Thus, I'm never disappointed.