DERAILS ON ATLAS #5 TOURNOUTS

Alan Hummel posted:

In crossovers between mainlines, is it better to use Atlas #7.5 turnouts?

Yes, use the 7 1/2 version, fageddabout the 5's

Stay away from short "S" curves.

Simon

The Atlas #5 is a hybrid.  Not a traditional straight point numbered turnout.  The diverging point is curved which sets up a mild variation of closure ratio.

Usually a pretty dependable turnout.  Not sure what your issues are.  

I usually trim 1 5/16" off each diverging end neting a 2 5/8" overall reduction of S tangent  w/o problems on 4" ROW centerlines.   

Push the cars  through by hand to check for tread lift or run your cars through the cross over just uncoupled w/ faces almost touching and while holding the couplers at a max swing with stir sticks and see if they would seemingly tolerate the swing.

If only one car derails you found your  problem.

You mentioned "leveling up the track" or some such.  I typically drop1/2" for sidings and yards but it must be very gradually and if not right it will show at the turnouts.

I agree the 7.5s are the way to go but they eat up a lot of real estate.  I have a good amount of space for my layout but with a lot of #7.5 turnouts the cumulative effect would be  too heavy of a linear hit.

You will need to trim  11/16" off the diverging ends of #7.5 to run them at 4".

Check the gauge of the wheels.  On ALL the cars

The odd thing is when I placed the car that was derailing in another area,it performed fine. I checked the wheels and they also seem fine not falling out of side frames or anything like that. I ran my cars through the turnouts by hand 1st before adding the diesel.

Thank you gentlemen for the advice.

Al Hummel

I agree with Jim.  Then, check the gauge of the turnouts.  After that is accomplished, fill in the sloppy frog with JB Weld so the wheels don't drop into the frog.

Ed

Close up level video of problem?

Sorry,Tom,I don't have any of those fancy devices,just trains.

Thanks,Al

You said when you placed the car in a different spot it didn't derail.  What kind of couplers are on the cars?  When derailed, do the connected cars have ridged couplers?  And when it didn't derail, was one of them a swing coupler?

sinclair posted:

You said when you placed the car in a different spot it didn't derail.  What kind of couplers are on the cars?  When derailed, do the connected cars have ridged couplers?  And when it didn't derail, was one of them a swing coupler?

This is a good point Sinclair! I had a car with Kadees coupled to an Atlas car with original couplers still on it, and it would derail on an S-curve through turnouts.  When I looked into it I found that the Kadee would use up all its slack first as the offset increased, but then the leading wheel would start to climb out and derail before the Atlas coupler would start to move sideways. I think the self centering action is much stronger on the Atlas couplers due to the stiffer spring. Kadee to Kadee was fine, Atlas to Atlas fine also. But one to the other, no go at that one spot on the layout. 

I always tell myself "100% Kadees on my railroad" but then I get a new Atlas car and want to run it right away, then forget...   

SINCLAIR,

These are all Atlas stock couplers. They have a TREMENDOUSLY STRONG spring in them that just in my opinion,think could be the problem. If these were Protocraft couplers that have a smaller side to side movement,I'd be more inclined to blame them,but I've coupled cars with Protocraft couplers together on 45" curves with no problems. I DON'T LIKE the Atlas stock couplers!! For 1 thing they won't couple together without "smashing" them together,even a string of 10 cars requires coupling effort.

Now I have a diesel problem. I can run my MTH GP40 through the ladder switches fine. Then I reverse & head back the same direction over the same switches & discover the trains not coming with me. It stops in various spots,different spots different times for no apparent reason. I added a straight piece of track about 9" on the mainline & everytime it hit that stretch,it would either shut itself off completely or the lights and cab would stay lit,but the engine wouldn't power.(?) Today,I ran my MTH GP38-2 on the same stretch of track&NO TROUBLE!! So,I ran the troubled diesel back over the same track and no trouble. None of my track is nailed down yet,'cause I'm still planning,but the mainlines are to the point where they could be nailed,yard tracks are next in line. Sidings in the yard,that's still in planning.

Reading all the posts on Atlas poor schedules,I feel like selling all my O & going to what I know. I'm supposed to be having ENJOYING my trains,not constantly trying to figure out what's wrong,I spent 30 years in HO doing that. Sorry fellas' forgive my "venting" it just overwhelmes at times,which is when I shake my head & walk away. Then spend days thinking about the problem,not actually dismissing the problem. 

Al Hummel

PETE M,

No Kadee to Atlas,we can eliminate that problem,but thank you for that insight. I'm amazed an Atlas/Protocraft combination seem to do fine.

Al Hummel

I have had model trains  since my Marx 10005 in 1949. I can tell you if your are seriously frustrated with diagnosing problems with your trains then your are in the wrong hobby! There is always something that needs to done to fix and/or improve how your trains run. Not an operating session goes by that I don't have clean, adjust or replace something on my layout or trains. It part of the hobby!!!!.

I feel your pain Al, but the reality of 2-rail O scale for me is that there's nothing I can buy and put straight on the track, if I want it to work in a way I consider acceptable. From just a coupler and maybe truck/wheelsets swap on cars, to some or all of upgrading motor, driveline, trucks, wheelsets, chassis, decoder, keep-alive, speaker and lighting on locos, that's just how it is.

And as operating is my favourite part of the hobby, it certainly can be frustrating.  But I would never want to lose the sense of mass and momentum, and more realistic sound that can be achieved in O scale over smaller scales. 

I asked about the couplers because if they are too still or ridged, they will pull cars off the track.  I have a problem with my Lionel 0-6-0 dockside doing that all the time.  I even replaced the coupler and spring, but still keeps pulling cars off of the track.  Makes it a rather useless switcher.

But now that I think about it, it doesn't pull my heavier cars off of the track, so you may be able to solve it by adding weight to your cars.

For the locomotive issue, that's generally pickup roller spacing.  I have several locomotives that died in the "yard" of my 1st O layout, before I knew any better.  Sometimes you can solve that by rotating one of the rollers 180 degrees.

Dumping 0 to go back to HO will give you the exact same thing in 1/8 the mass.  Unpowered isolated dead frogs, rail joiners which get loose and fail to conduct juice when assembled/disassembled a lot,  increased track alignment issues, etc. etc.

Snap a chalk line or use a straight edge to assure tangent is tangent and parallel ROWs are in fact parallel.  Make sure your test area is absolutely flat and even.  Feed your frog with an Atlas #200 relay when using the finikie Atlas switch machines.  Best to use a  Tortise or micro switch with a hand throw.

It may well be safe to say it is just something overlooked.  Nothing major, just a whoops!

IMO, you may be greatly helped with a local 2 rail 0 scaler.   Even an HO person using the Atlas track products.

Sometimes it helps to walk away from a  problem, regroup and hit it another day.  Any honest person will tell you that a nagging whatever frequently was of their own making.  At least that is how it is in my world.

Nothing is perfect.

sinclair posted:

 

For the locomotive issue, that's generally pickup roller spacing.  I have several locomotives that died in the "yard" of my 1st O layout, before I knew any better.  Sometimes you can solve that by rotating one of the rollers 180 degrees.

"Pick up rollers"??!!?? Sorry I thought we're talking in the 2-Rail section here?

If one car is derailing, & in one direction more than the other, the first check is of the back-to-back measurement of each wheelset. I have found they do vary on Atlas cars, & even a small discrepency can cause problems.

The loco issue sounds like pickup problems, albeit not of the center roller type!!!

SundayShunter posted:

sinclair posted:

 

For the locomotive issue, that's generally pickup roller spacing.  I have several locomotives that died in the "yard" of my 1st O layout, before I knew any better.  Sometimes you can solve that by rotating one of the rollers 180 degrees.

"Pick up rollers"??!!?? Sorry I thought we're talking in the 2-Rail section here?

 

This is the direct results of folks not paying close enough attention to which forum the "RECENT POSTS" (listed in the right hand side of every page) is REALLY pertaining to.

Hot Water posted:

This is the direct results of folks not paying close enough attention to which forum the "RECENT POSTS" (listed in the right hand side of every page) is REALLY pertaining to.

Happens all the time. People just ***-sume what forum they are in. Would be nice if the forum name would be present in posts or on the recent posts column. Probably requires a major software change.

Simon

Alan,

Don't make your life any tougher than need be....get rid of the two back to back switches that create the short "S" curve. It's lousy track planning.

Simon

Sorry the loco is a 2 rail fixed pilot not a 3 rail loco. Sorry,I should've been more specific.

Al Hummel

Do you have any 89' flat cars? They generally do not like "S" curves, at least not short ones. 

I think my shortest "S" curve is about 46", long enough to take 2 flat cars.

Tom Platten posted:

I have had model trains  since my Marx 10005 in 1949. I can tell you if your are seriously frustrated with diagnosing problems with your trains then your are in the wrong hobby! There is always something that needs to done to fix and/or improve how your trains run. Not an operating session goes by that I don't have clean, adjust or replace something on my layout or trains. It part of the hobby!!!!.

I agree completely. Figuring things out should be enjoyable, and if it is not then your better off finding a hobby less involved. I always feel well satisfied once I get things done properly on my railroad...doesn't matter how long it takes or what's involved...the hours/days spent on my trains are so rewarding. Go back to HO and you'll find issues there as well...such as being unable to see those small pieces of Jxxk.

With no disrespect or nastiness meant in any way,you fellas read me wrong. Scale has nothing to do with grief. I enjoy my trains & that includes solving the mysteries. There's times you just got to walk away when you keep hitting dead ends & new problems instead of running trains which for me means mostly switching. Only the Good Lord knows I've had to walk away from the wife MANY times... Things usually look better after the l..o..n...g.. walks. Same with the trains. You can clear your mind,take a new approach,get new ideas. 

I'm TOTALLY committed to my railroads regardless of scale.

ROO,thank you for the pictures,gives me a breath of fresh air reminding me what the pot at the end of the rainbow looks like,even though I'm a long way from it.

Al Hummel

Hot Water posted:

SundayShunter posted:

sinclair posted:

 

For the locomotive issue, that's generally pickup roller spacing.  I have several locomotives that died in the "yard" of my 1st O layout, before I knew any better.  Sometimes you can solve that by rotating one of the rollers 180 degrees.

"Pick up rollers"??!!?? Sorry I thought we're talking in the 2-Rail section here?

 

This is the direct results of folks not paying close enough attention to which forum the "RECENT POSTS" (listed in the right hand side of every page) is REALLY pertaining to.

But I thought I was sure I had checked if this was 2R or not before I posted.  Perhaps I had too many tabs open.  That or it really is time for me to get my eyes checked.  Sigh...

Anywho, I have had power pickup issues with HO and N in the past as well due to wheel spacing, dirty wheels, and poor wire connections internally.  So check there.