First train Table - Design Help

Doing the base in parts may be your best bet. You need to determine what size you can move in and out doors with ease. if you have more space on your porch then you may want to design for both an indoor and outdoor layout.  If it is for your son then base height is also an issue.  There is a thread about height.  I recommend you sketch out what you want, then decide how many parts and of what size for the base. Got to be a size you can move and identify the track connections that are required and then start to build.

With your goals/objectives you need to build as lightweight as possible and as mentioned to clear your entrance to the deck. 

3X5 would be tight 4x6 would be much better 4X8 probably best for your situation is that possible ?

 

this is 3X 5 you can't even use the curved tracks that came with his set they are usually 036 curves which won't fit in 3 ft so switching them out for 031 curves works.

this was just a 5 minute layout done in scarm.

 

 

Thanks everyone, this forum rocks!  (This is also for me to

I've always loved trains, just never got one, always working & spending $ on the kids and wife.

I'm going to do it in the family room where that "ledge" is, basically the ledge is the wall, because it's a "split level" house, so only 2 floors, so the basement is entirely above grade, but the wall the way it's framed goes up about 44" then there's that ledge, and then the rest of the wall goes to the ceiling - it's plastered walls.  I thought it would be cool to make a run on that ledge, then have it go down multi-levels.  If I did this I wouldn't care about moving it anywhere.  So I have about 6-8feet, and maybe 4feet wide, so how could I leverage that ledge (do I want to?), have the track go along that, then take a turn and down a hill to the next level, and I was thinking if I go up 44", then how many levels are realistic? If using that ledge is going to make it harder then I'll give that up.  It would be cool to bring it out onto the enclosed deck, but moving the layouts around seem like it's going to limit this and make it much harder.  Although I did read about using "Foam board" used for insulation", but that doesn't seem popular on here.

I like the "shelf type" ideas where I could do like 6-8feet, then maybe not as wide, but also does that make it easier for the multiple levels?  

 

yes you can do as many levels as you would like it's just a matter of figuring the supports for the many levels. for tunnels I do the white Styrofoam glued on edge to box in around the track. add my portals to each end then paint the inside black add the track then put a roof on it once that is done I make a cardboard lattice and cover with plaster cloth. photos below . this is my daughters layout she now has in her room. you can see the lattice work and plaster work it also has the grass mat your talking about. I cover my layouts with pink foam so that you can make scenery details like rivers and such.

 

Hey RyDog,

Take some measurements of the area available and make a quick sketch on a piece of paper. The take a photo and post it here. We'll turn that into a baseboard that you can use in SCARM to flop some tracks on.

 

You can also do it the old school way, once you sketch the area. Draw some lines on paper to see what you like for the track.

 

I don't think you use can a grade, but could make two separate tracks at 44" and 38".

 

Here's a 5' x 9' using the 9" shelf. The only 51" needs to stick out into the room. The whole height of the track is shelf height, 44". This layout is from p.25 Lionel 2014 Track and Power catalog. It's also in the 1954 Lionel Operating manual. It's an oldie but goodie.

 

see my videos.. I use Foam Insulation board as my ground.. the trick is to support it properly my layout looks like crap..but its a blast to run trains on...and is a stop gap until I can build my dream layout...

the only advice I can give, and I have seen it to many times.. people build small and think it will "do for a while"...but it will not "do" if you get bored with it.. build to appease your real desire.. you say you always loved trains.. so be sure you build so you will continue to love YOUR trains...

this can become a "JOB" if you fail to meet your true desire...

I would avoid the 4X8  circle..it gets old quick...

go with a shelf layout so yo can run a decent length train.. and add some yards long enough to hold about 5 cars each..

you did not say what system you control your trains with..

but if you have a little fiddle yard and a decent loop..run 2 engines..with remote controllers.. sound smoke...you will never get bored

since you got the shelf.. go for the length..

its better to ask for forgiveness than permission  

I also have video on You tube  search "1jefreys"

Good advice from 1drummer!  More to do than just sit and watch will be more fun, interesting and challenging.

also look on youtube..see what you like.. no need to rush in..

Thank you all!  I'm catching the bug the more I read on here!  I'm going to take some measurement and pics of the area and post it tonight or tomorrow.  I definitely am up for using more space, and ideally I would like to do a multi-level layout.  

 

I am not stuck on using the walL shelf, if it works that is good, if not then I can alway use it for storage/display.  

 

just remember it's not just about trains for me it's about relaxing after work working with my hands and the feeling of getting something done. but it is also about playing with toy trains. Enjoy this was from tonight I didn't work on anything just let tehm run and yes mine is a multi loop layout. this was all conventional no tmcc tonight

 

 If you want to use your porch, you might consider puting a layout near the ceiling.  Here is a comment made in a post on this sight back in April 2012

 

I would use atlas track instead, It is uv rated and nickle silver rails do not rust.

Fastrack can rust and the plastic parts may fade and / or warp.

Realtrax might also fade or warp.

 

You can make it a double track for future expansion of the roster.  You could then build a switching layout that could be built in two or three sections that you can take in if necessary.  This way your son gets to watch trains run continuously as well as learn operation with the switching yard.

 

The concept of around the ceiling eliminates the need for gates or liftout sections around doors and windows and you can design the switching yard to fit into a future larger trackplan.  I think this concept would allow the layout to be indoors such as his bedroom and could be used year round.  You can design low relief buildings for the ceiling layout, full size for the switching layout, learn ballasting, wiring and all other facets of model railroading.  My dad started me with trains when I was 4 years old.  Your son will love it and working together is great for father and son.  Good luck.

Hi,
Thanks again, I took measurements and I can do about 7' long and 4' wide, I'll skip using the shelf.  I've been working 24x7 for a couple days but will post pics first thing in the morning.  I want to do something to see if my son stays interested to before i go to crazy, because I like the trains, but if it were just for me I think I would do something different. 
I definitely want to do multilevel. 
In one post on here I saw a corner shelf type unit, I'm looking for that post, but it was basically like a book case without ends on the shelves.  That seemed like a good idea.  I might be able to squeeze in 8 '.  My idea originally was to use that wall shelf, then have the track go onto the board, and then down a level, or something.
I like the tunnels that JHainer did as well, how do you actually do that?  It's a big savings from buying them!

I'm wondering if I start out with getting a basic platform built and add on if that's worth it?  I've read about wood, and know at least 1/2" is needed.  I like the idea of the pink foam board on top as well, and thought at one point using that alone might be ok, but I like it won't be.  What is good for legs and is OSB the best wood to get for the top?  If it's going to be multilevel, do I just do that now and not try to get a regular layout going?
As for grass mat, is the brand/type I bought ok?  I've read people use outdoor carpet, etc.  I want to have areas that are like hills, a stream, and I love the rock "look" on the sides of the track, how is that done?
Thanks a lot for all the help, forums are hard to find for help, but this is great.
As for the set we got, it's a Lionel Ready To Run set, it has the 80watt transformer, it's got the piece to do a figure 8, and I think it's the Pensylvania set, but I'll check.  I wound up upgrading it right after Xmas because the 1st one I got was defective.  My son does like Passenger trains, but I was talked into the Freight, which he also likes.

Once I get the track layout, is there a good guide on what to cut out, for wiring, the levels, etc?

JHAINERS' Quote about relaxing and enjoying the trains and working on the layout is spot on !

RyDog,

Just dive in, but in the small pond. Build a 4 x 8 table a squeeze it in your space. But the grass on it. Then use the track you have, a figure 8, and get it up a running. That will let your have some fun.

 

here's a plan that starts with what you and you can add elements as time and money allow. I would get a switch (manual or remote) and build the siding first. Then find a log dumper for your son to back into the siding and dump the logs. Then you could get the log loader accessory. The kids like those accessories. Then you can add the other switches later. Then table will be easy enough to move to the porch when the weather gets nicer.

 

Just my 2¢. keep it simple and have some and learn the different techniques on a small scale.

 

The add -on pieces are in blue. There's play value with this simple looking layout.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I'm going to do this as a start.  What's best to build the table with?  The OSB wood, and then is it just legs?  I'm not sure how/what I would need for the loader but that sounds good as well!

I make my table out of 1x4 with 2x2 legs then cover with ply atleast 1/2 inch then 1/2 foam.

Hey All,
Thanks, after painting the room (per the wife AKA:the boss), we are ready to move on with the train table.  I definitely am making room.  I can do 5x9 at the biggest.  Here's what I started with which was 1/2 plywood just sitting on a foldout table before the painting.  But these pics show the space.  I'm not going to try to use the shelf on the wall anymore as I think that will be just a pain.  I want to do 2 levels, we'll my son wants to and it is cool! 
Please let me know what everyone suggests!  And I'm really interested in how to make tunnels like JHainers, and others I've seen, as well as where to get decorations, and where to buy extra cars and track.  I live near a Lionel Dealer, but is it better to buy online?  I'm decent building things, so I just need ideas on how to build the table, like what type of wood, how to make the legs, etc.  I'd like to make it look decent as well. 
What's the best grass mat?  I posted the one I bought, is that decent?  I like the pink foam insulation idea, so the grass mat goes over that?  Then what's next on making streams, rivers, whatever?  I'm not artist

No pics showed up i use 1x4 to frame the table then the legs are 2x2 or 2x4 this time i used 5/4 board decking material for legs then i screw down 1/2 ply i like mdf. My father said why mdf just buy osb so i did this time . Can you say splinters in hands while cutting from now on i will stick with mdf. I make legs for second level out of 1x4 and then put cut to shape mdf on the legs for my second level.

Thanks, the pic didn't upload the first time 

 

So what should I try to do to start if I want to do 2 levels?

 

if i do 5x9 then will I get a big advantage over 4x8? 

 

Do you put the pink foam over the entire mdf?  I'm sure I can build the table, the 2nd level is what I'm confused about a bit, he wants to have the tunnel be part of the 2nd level, but I'm not sure if that's going to mess up how it looks? 

 

I would like to cut the wood to fit into that corner of the wall so I can move it closer to that end, I have a double door there, but the end where the table will be doesn't open, it's just a panel really.

 

These tunnels look great, so could I build these and then have a 2nd level?



       

Using a 5' x 9' allows you to use 048 curves for the outer loop and 036 for the second loop, elevated or same grade. That way the second loop doesn't have to go over top of the entire loop or have to be in 031. Using the largest curves that you can allows the trains to run better.

http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=CSlJlr0cNZg
While running trains on flat level track is reliable..its sort of boring to me....Real trains
Wiggle wobble and sway...they go over small grade changes....
Granted my layout is ugly..its a temporary set up...but thats going to change. In may we decide if we are moving..my next layout will be more attractive, but will still allow for wobble sway and humps...

My point is this...I have seen to many times enthusiastic people invest a lot of time to build a lay out that gets boring to operate really fast...
I make up  challenges...

How long of a ain can I pull up that grade, around that curve..its entertaining to watch 28  cars go around the curve and see the wheels start to rise up off the track...

Can I get that string of cars off the main line onto a siding before the passenger train comes through..

Setting up train orders that involve turning cars so that spotting them is accomplished in the fewest train moves

Watching an engine srruggle to get a string up a grade...http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=fOghpOjgpmo

So my advice is still the same. REMEMBER  the goal is to have fun

yes you could have a second level with the tunnels. I would attach risers probably pieces of 1x4 cut to 7.25 the put a layer of 1/2 MDF on top of the legs in the area of the mountain then build the tunnels under the MDF and add the second level track on top of the MDF and build either another tunnel on the second level or build up around the track to give the image of the train running on top of a mountain but not just a flat top mountain . kinda like this

All, thanks again!

So I've decided to dedicate the space and I want to make it challenging, have fun, and learn how to make the decorations, as well as use the better curves which I think is all of the advice combined.

Now being a newbie   where do I start?  I can get the basic table built where I use MDF 1/2, and then the pink foam, I have to find that, I'm assuming it's the 4x8 sheets, and that's about 1/2" if I remember right?  So once I get the bottom table built, where do I go next?  I like the idea of the bridge being part of the 2nd level.  I do like the last pic, but I think my son wants to see more of the train. He wants to get like a barrel kicker station and car.  So I think maybe a big tunnel at 1 end, like the one JHainer has on his table he posted previously, then it's how do I go from there, making the tunnel strong enough to hold the train, and also a 2nd level, where decorations, stations, whatever can be on both levels or do I really just worry about the 2nd level?  I also like the picture of the arch table that someone posted for JHainer.  My point is to do something he (and I ) won't outgrow or lose interest in quickly.  Moving it I'll give up on.  Now it's just how to make what will work well. 
I have to setup SCARM, my wife infested my laptop with spyware, so that won't happen for a couple days until I get the laptop redone.  But I'll take whatever suggestions. I'd love 3 levels, but is that to much to start with?

Thanks all!  I've got the wood to build at least the 1st level.  What I'm not sure of now is how high to make the main level, and I want to do at least 2, maybe 3 if I can.  I can do a 5x9 layout for the base.  

 

if anyone can help me figure out what's next, I would guess it's the track layout, followed by building for it?

 

i definitely want to use a lot of suggestions, making it a "fun" interesting layout, a challenge, building 1 or 2 of those tunnels, although I'm fairly confused on how to do it to be honest.  And the tunnel would have to be part of the 1st level I guess?

 

I am doing the MDF as suggested, should I paint or seal it?  And then the legs and frame I'll do what's been suggested.

 

thanks!

 

I make my legs 32 inches but the height is a personal preference since your son will be viewing it also.very crud drawing in scarm but it gives an idea of the wood I left the table top up so you can see the wood structure under.I make my second level at 7.75 so on top of the base table top I put 1x4 legs cut to 7.25  then on top of the legs I put 1/2 MDF for the base for the second level .

 

Awesome, thanks!  I'm building the framework today, and putting the 1st layer on.  Should I put the pink foam under the grass mat?  And do I glue the foam to the MDF or does it just hold ok without doing that?
The 2nd layer I have a good idea now thanks to all the help.  I'm not sure how to get to that step though, build the tunnel first?

Hey RyDog,

Glad to hear you are progressing. Some glue around the edge of the foam and few spots in the center will do. It's not structural, you just need to hold it place. Find some buckets with water, gallon paint cans, any thing with weight to hold it down on top of a few 2 x 4's to distribute the weight for about a hour so.

 

I think some spray adhesive would work for the grass mat. Hit the starting edge and spray as you unroll it onto the layout. Use the weight system from the foam to hold it down for a little while.

 

Then stand back and admire your handy work.

 

Focus on the first level for now. Keep the tasks limited. You can add what you need for a 2nd level or any other changes when the time comes.

 

Will the legs be removable, so that you can move the layout out to the outside space?