Need Layout help: 18x19 L shape, SCARM file included

You have quite a bit of space to work with. From the look of the floor plan, it looks like you could execute two loops with O-72 as a minimum curve. A few questions:

1. Have you decided on the track you want to use? If not, I'd suggest Gargraves or Atlas with Ross turnouts.
2. Do you want trains to basically run continuously, or do you want industries to service as well?
3. Operationally, could you live with a longer single mainline with passing sidings? My thought here is that eliminating a couple of concentric curves gives a better use of space and eliminates the risk of an articulated steam engine sideswiping a passenger car on the outer track.

Matt, thank you for the reply.  To answer your questions:

1) Gargraves.  I spent a little while buying up all the Gargraves i could get my hands on from ebay.  I don't recall how much i have but i believe it is almost 200' including some operating tracks, with bonus bags of pins, clip-ons, track screws and extra ties.

2) I was leaning towards continuous running.  I like the look of the display layouts with several trains passing each other. I don't think I'd have enough room for a yard.

3) I would like a double mainline.  However, I'm open to suggestions.  My concept is an outer loop of 072 for the big stuff, then 054 for semi-scale, then inside can be scrunched 031 classics.  There is enough room to leave space for overhang between the runs.

Dom,

I use objects to rectangles to make the room outline after using the baseboard to make the outline.

Then I use absolute coordinates to create the actual baseboard.

later I will set the properties of the rectangles to a height of 96" to create walls in 3D.

So, here's the palette. I'll see what design ideas pop up later. I didn't think you'd have a block after what you did on that other layout. happens to the best of us.

What do you have for switches? Do you want crossovers? A passing siding or two?

Moonman, thanks for the work.  I'm not up to speed on creating objects in SCARM, and I realized pretty quickly that using the baseboard function to map the room was pretty limiting, thanks for solving that for me!!  When I get home I'll bring up your file and see what you did.

My creative juices flowed a lil bit after working on that last layout but I get myself bogged down with overly complicated switches and criss crosses, etc.

I'll answer your questions:

For switches all I have right now are two Gargraves regular (100) switches, a right and left.  Switches are no problem though, I can acquire more, maybe not all at once, but I expect to get more. 

Crossovers are fine.  I don't mind crossovers, as long as they're not on the mainlines.  I want to keep the continuous runs uninterrupted as much as possible because I have not yet gained experience with relays and automatic route control, and I don't have a digital command system. 

Passing sidings I like.  I would definitely like at least one if not more.

I'll upload what I've started working out when I get a chance, it is very rudimentary but maybe gives insight into my mindset. 

Thank you for the help!!!

Dom,

That helps. If you'll be running conventionally, the crossovers can be tricky. It's easy enough to add them in later.

I have the grandson today. He had a fever and couldn't go to daycare. I'll try some ideas later. The L shape can get frustrating.

The old designers could get a lot out an oval. Matt has some nice ideas using oval with wings. They fit in the same area and do what want and more. It would give as much running track footage in a walk-around.

I'll try some concepts both ways, just to show you a different approach.

Moonman, here is what I was banging around with.  I changed the elevated portion to an independent loop with only one graded track for in-out traffic, the elevated loop has a reverse in it to get trains back out.

At ground level you see there is a nasty cut across for reversing there.  This is where I don't mind crossovers, because it's not normal traffic so on the occasions that trains will be crossing i will be able to adjust through traffic. 

It's ugly, but this is what my problem is, over engineering.  at one point i had a double slip worked in but decided that its expensive and i don't want it on the mainline. 

The color code is Green = 072 min mainline, Yellow = 054 min mainline, Orange = graded track at @2%, Purple = elevated loop, and Light Blue = ground level reversing track.

There is still plenty of room, and lots of tweaking and changes that can be made.  I'm figuring at ground level i can definitely work in an 031 loop and maybe a point-to-point trolley line as well.

Dom,

Here's a concept. The two mailines are 072\054 on 9" track centers. They switch radius in the center on the mountain. There are cut curves to get 22.5º & 30º sections. I just tossed in the 032 in the center. There's room for a trolley run and buildings and such.

Gargraves plastic. So, that's four trains running simultaneously. 3.3 and 3.4 grades.

Take a look.

Moonman, thank you for the response.  I think the grade is a bit steeper than I’d like, I’m kind of partial to keeping it down around 2%. 

In my redesign I’ve saved some space by having only one graded track for access to the upper loop.  It runs the length of almost both walls, giving about 29 feet of run to get up 7”, that’s right at 2%, and if I move in the left side of the top loop I can add about another 4 feet to the grade, that’ll drop it down to maybe 1.7%.  Nice and gentle, easy to get up, and hopefully not so much of a runaway train on the way down.  I want to experiment with resistors triggered by a relay to drop the power when the train is on the down slope.  It may be simpler just to wire them through a toggle switch so I can route the power through the resistors manually when needed.

I want trackwork that is a little complicated and interesting, hence some switches and crossovers, as opposed to symmetrical rings.  I’m afraid I may get bored of just rings, I know my temperament and I want the variety of changing routes and taking short cuts across the layout with sidings and spurs, etc.

I’m looking at my design and I can definitely simplify the blue reversing track, that way I can squeeze some crossovers on it for any interior loops.

Dom,

Just a concept. The higher grade is needed to open up the interior of the layout for a third train and trolley to pass under. If you elevate the rear mainlines and up & down from end to end using both legs of the L you can lower the grade.

I get the mainlines designed first. Then you can work in the operational elements. I didn't do that before getting some feedback from you.

v.2 is attached with 2% grades on the wall runs.

Your last design causes both ends to be mountains & tunnels. You'll have support issues if you try to leave as an exposed elevation with piers or bents for supports. It also has a high track to scenery ration. That doesn't leave much space for buildings or accessories and roads.

My grandson's off schedule and causing me sleep deprivation. And I thought I was finished with sick toddlers. You never know.

I don't know why I haven't posted any 3d renderings of my plans, why have I been so lazy? 

It's funny that you mention your sleep schedule, I was going to complain about what working midnights does to mine!  I'm up all night but don't have access to SCARM, and when I get home I have to go to bed and then spend precious little family time and don't get to play with my toys!!

I hear what you're saying about mountains and tunnels.  its funny how a "big" space quickly becomes small! I'm trying to shoe-horn in as much stuff as I can, I definitely want an 072 elevated looper.  I can make it work.  As far as little room left for scenery, that's just fine.  Means less area that I have to spend time trying to make look good just to end up taking the whole thing down in a couple years probably!!

I hear you on the scenery.

here's something to check out. It's an old school method of looping the main back over itself. it gives the appearance of a double main. the middle just wasn't coming together.

I am think a third loop all elevated coming off the mountain. I had to use Ross crossovers 22.5º

Here's just another idea for the use of the space. Black circuit is 081 minimum on the bottom level. Above that in red is an over-and-under double main with one line that is 072 min and one that is 063 (though the 063 line has a lot of 081 in it). It could use a lot of work to make it more interesting, but it's a start. Are you set on the idea of an L-shaped pike along those two walls?

Todd

Todd, that's pretty good looking, I like the complex look yet simplicity of it!

My only issue is that the doors along the bottom wall are for utility and storage, plus I have my desk against the diagonal wall on the bottom left, so having the track come out that for down into the room isn't possible.  The door into the room is on the far left.  That's the only reason I was going with an L shape, to keep the center of the room open so I could get stuff in and out of the closets, plus get to the furnace and sump pump, etc.

Is that in RR Tracks or SCARM?  If it's SCARM would you mind attaching the file?  It's a really great design that I'd love to see if I could tweak a little bit.

Thanks!

I'm using RR-Track v5.1. Here's just some more playing around with a double main line up-and-over. Outside main is min 081, inside 072. Does this plan remain within the allowable space? If you have time, could you indicate the allowable space on your floor plan?

Todd

Now with three main lines -- 081, 072 and 063 minimums, respectively. The 081 line doesn't need to rise and fall, but could.

Todd

If the outer main line is elevated in the upper right corner, a trolley line (or even a fourth main line with 045 reversing loops) could be added underneath. The whole thing could be flipped and rotated without much adjustment.

Todd

Dom,

Atlas O does have an 081 curve. It is a 40.5 radius and a 22.5° section. To make one from Gargraves flex, Select Tools, Toolbox, click on the pointer for the flex modeling tool.

Then enter the radius and arc angle next to the curve button. 40.5 would be the radius, I used 45° for the arc angle.

Then select a Gargraves flex track to an active point. Then hit the curve button. You'll see that it uses most of the piece of flex track. When you select the fix button, it's like cutting off the unused portion. You now have a piece of 081 which take 8 to make a circle or most of one piece of GG flex track.

You can select it and copy and paste, then move for more pieces.

You can choose any portion of the circle that you like to get a section that fits.

Enjoy the holiday!

Aah, so nice!  There is a lot that SCARM can do that I just don't know anything about!  I'll have to give that a try once the holidays are over and I can get some me time, thanks!

I would also recommend that whichever radii curves that you use that you keep at least a 5.5" center rail-to-center rail spacing or 6" to allow the passing of larger engines or scale passenger cars in opposite directions. That's an 11" or 12" difference in diameter.

DomMiele......  from some of the plans others have created as suggestions here are my thoughts.

first the spaghetti track and towns are never a good mix! also a railroad needs a purpose they haul goods to and from factories and to town businesses.

a lower level and an upper level not connected in smaller areas are better. this will allow for those sidings where cars can be spotted and also collected for mainline hauling.

I know most like the scarm software I personally have never used it so am not sure it has all track from all manufactures included?

I would highly recommend the RR Track software  as it comes with up to date tracks switches by all the current manufactures.

if you have track and curves that you wish to use here is a suggestion use wood or masking tape and outline bench work area on floor now assemble a basic loop of track filling that area step back and look it over and decide what should be changed and change it sometimes reality far out weighs a paper drawing.

also keep in mind keep your tracks at least 4 inches away from the edge of bench work as derailments to the floor are not a good thing for engines or rolling stock.

now most of us have loop railroads not many of us have what is called point to point this can be where you assemble a train and go to the other end point with industries along the way so basically you assemble trains and disassemble trains and have switch engines pickup and drop off freight cars to industries.

now the point to point can have a loop that connects both end points for times you wish to just run a train continuously its the best of both worlds.

I hope I have stirred your mind to look at other possibilities as to the type railroad that tweaks your interest.

St Paul, I appreciate the pointers but I'm a bit past the beginner stuff.  I am familiar with point-to-point railroads, they hold no interest for me.  I like a continuous run.  I'm familiar with the use of stencils to late out the track plan on the floor, that's how I did my current layout and built the bench work for it.  I personally really like SCARM, it's free and it has everything I need in it.  The library of tracks are quite complete as far as my needs go.  I can't justify spending money on RR Track because I wouldn't use it enough.  Also I get the concept that a railroad should have a purpose, except in this case where I'm going more for a display layout style and less focus on operational concerns.  I would like a small yard if possible and a couple sidings, I want access between the loops for transferring cars and locos but I want the loops independent to limit the amount of relay switching that would be necessary.

I appreciate your interest but I'm set on what I want, stirring my mind to look at other possibilities is just going to muddy the waters I'm afraid.  Plus, it's not what will make me happy. 

Thanks for the help though!

i see all these great ideas, but no place to park....