Roco/Atlas Flex Track vs Atlas Flex Track

Some of the early Roco track was plated brass. A NOT so good thing when the plating wears off. I'd stick with the new Atlas.

Simon

Simon Winter posted:

Some of the early Roco track was plated brass. A NOT so good thing when the plating wears off. I'd stick with the new Atlas.

Simon

 

 

I didn't know this Simon.  

The track being advertised is Nickel Silver.

Any other concerns perhaps with this older Roco/Atlas track? 

I believe it's black ties instead of brown which is kind of nice...

probaly the ties are more eurepean design, and less ties for every foot

Cor

Good advice!! I'm so glad I asked about this track.   

Also putting an order out for bid... good thinking Tom.  

Appreciate the inputs here (as always).   

Chuck

Dawg,

Here's a radical thought (not). Since you will be spending a fair pile of money for this track, buy one section of each and compare them. (I'd forget about the ME weathered unless you're into S&M). (I have a mixed batch and plan to use the stiffer ME for straight sections and the more flexible Atlas for curves) If you compare the cross section of the rail (looking at the end), you will find they are VERY similar. You can paint the ties if you are unhappy with the color.

A little historical footnote: The late Ed Duddy (House of Duddy) had ME produce the original flex. If you look on the bottom of the ties, you will see his name stamped there.

Not sure if that is still done since Ed passed.

Simon

PS: I was able to buy most of my stuff new on the secondary market.

IMO, avoid using the oversized newer Atlas rail joiners on the older Atlas /  Roco.  They provide a sloppy fit even if you crimp them, like tying on too large of a shoe, it is still a sloppy fit

I use Peco code 143 rail joiner SL-710FB on early Atlas track. 

Mount a spare section of early Atlas  rail in a vise and chamfer the corners of the flat base slightly.  Then using the newly shaped end, use it to ever so slightly open the mouth of each end of the Peco joiner.  This step will provide a very snug connection yet still allow seasonal movement unlike soldered connections. 

As a side comment, I use hard card stock in order to leave a .017" gap on all rail joints.  Simply insert a .017" spacer in each joint as you work down the ROW and remove them when completed. 

I have never had a problem forming the microengineering weathered flex track. it is a little more difficult than the non weathered. I form it to a 62 inch radius using a 1/4 thick piece of tempered Masonite used as a mandrel. the Masonite is cut to a curve that I force the side of the inside rail against. using this method give me a smooth uniform radius.

The old 1970's era Atlas flex track ( black ties) was made for Atlas in Austria by Roco ( as was the early Atlas rolling stock) using rail that was around .158" tall and with a relatively narrow base. The 1990's and newer brown tie AtlasO flex track was made with completely different tooling in China and .148" tall rail.   As was pointed out, early production Atlas/Roco flex track had nickel silver plated brass rail.  Due to issues with plating wearing off (some batches flaked off!) later runs were produced with solid nickle silver rail. To spot the difference you may have to file the ends of the rail to see if there is brass underneath. For long term appearance and conductivity reasons I avoid plated Atlas/Roco flex track. 

Here is my take on the available brands of code 148 flex track.

For appearance first place goes to ME due to the finer rail cross section and nice looking ties and spike heads.  AtlasO is a close second.  Just be aware if you decide to hand lay your turnouts using Right-O-Way castings and AtlasO rail you'll have to do a little extra filing as the AtlasO rail cross section is a little on the "fat" side for the points to nestle in.  Lou Cross told me that he sold ME the code 125 and 148 rail used in their flex track.  As expected, R-O-W rail works great with R-O-W castings - minimal filing to get the points and cast guard rails to nestle in to the turnout's stock rail.  A distant last place for appearance goes to Atlas/Roco due to the simulated European rail fasteners on the plastic ties, and a slightly odd rail cross section.

For  ease of track laying my first place goes to AtlasO.  The rail slides nicely in the ties making it very easy to lay the track to any line - straight or curved.  All my curves have transition easements and the natural flex of of the rail makes achieving this desirable visual feature a piece of cake.  For  tips on creating easements read John Armstrong's Creative Track Planning for Realistic Operation.   My practice is to stagger rail joints several inches for kink free curves - easy to do with free sliding rail.  Atlas/Roco flex track also has relatively free sliding rail.   As Tom Tee pointed out ME track's rail does not slide freely in the ties due to their manufacturing process, making it much more difficult to form to a uniform curve.  Weathered ME flex track is mis titled - it should be called straight track!   IMO from the track layin perspective ME is in third and fourth place.

 From a cost perspective ME comes in first, with old Atlas/Roco second.  AtlasO a distant third due to a series of price increases over the last 10 or so years.

 In building a large railroad (2400' of track, 120 turnouts) on a retirement budget, here are the approaches I used.  For hidden trackage I used Atlas/Roco flex track- much of which was bought second hand from friends and at shows like Strasburg.  For visible mainline track I did a bulk buy of AtlasO flex track at a significant discount from a reputable big name dealer.  The cases of track were drop shipped to me from AtlasO.  For totally straight track ( like leads off the turntable) I used ME.  For turnouts (other than some hidden AtlasO ones) I hand layed them using R-O-W castings and rail on Mt. Albert wood ties.  I've experienced little difficulty in mixing and matching the various brands of track. Variations in tie and rail color hasn't been an issue as before ballasting I spray the track with Rustoleum Camouflage Brown paint for a weathered appearance.

Selecting which way to go with trackwork is one of the bigger decisions one makes in building a railroad.  My recommendation is buy a few sections of each brand, test lay  a sample curve and see for yourself which you want to go with.  You can always find a place on the railroad to re-use the flex track you decide against.

I compared Atlas O with ME when I built my layout. I believe that there is a difference in the lengths of each section when comparing ME with Atlas. I believe one is 36" and the other about 40" but you would have to confirm. This makes a BIG difference in the total cost. I selected ME and one reason was my concern re voltage drops at the far end from the power supply location on a large layout. I think that the ME was 17% nickel silver and had better conductivity. I would also check/confirm the cost of rail joiners. This might seem like a "nit" but does add to the cost. My ME track is nickel silver and I would not even consider ME weathered, even though it is less expensive. If you do this right, you will only do track "once".

I did use Atlas turnouts, and am not what you would call a "happy camper". There was a slight difference in the height of the Atlas turnout and the Code 148 ME that was easy to file smooth.

Good point Hudson5432.  AtlasO flex track is approximately 40" long - Micro Engineering 36" long.  Almost everyone agrees best practice is to not trust rail joiners to conduct electricity with solid T rail.   Voltage drop due to resistance in code 148/125 NS rail  should be non- issue if one follows the practice of putting feeders to each section of rail from appropriately sized bus wires under the table.

Keystoned Ed posted:

Almost everyone agrees best practice is to not trust rail joiners to conduct electricity with solid T rail.   Voltage drop due to resistance in code 148/125 NS rail  should be non- issue if one follows the practice of putting feeders to each section of rail from appropriately sized bus wires under the table.

Another reason NOT to totally dismiss RC Battery power. NO track wiring to worry about, no problems with dirty track, no shorts with brass locos and cars.....and the technology is continually improving.

Simon

Keystoned Ed posted:

The old 1970's era Atlas flex track ( black ties) was made for Atlas in Austria by Roco ( as was the early Atlas rolling stock) using rail that was around .158" tall and with a relatively narrow base. The 1990's and newer brown tie AtlasO flex track was made with completely different tooling in China and .148" tall rail.   As was pointed out, early production Atlas/Roco flex track had nickel silver plated brass rail.  Due to issues with plating wearing off (some batches flaked off!) later runs were produced with solid nickle silver rail. To spot the difference you may have to file the ends of the rail to see if there is brass underneath. For long term appearance and conductivity reasons I avoid plated Atlas/Roco flex track. 

Here is my take on the available brands of code 148 flex track.

For appearance first place goes to ME due to the finer rail cross section and nice looking ties and spike heads.  AtlasO is a close second.  Just be aware if you decide to hand lay your turnouts using Right-O-Way castings and AtlasO rail you'll have to do a little extra filing as the AtlasO rail cross section is a little on the "fat" side for the points to nestle in.  Lou Cross told me that he sold ME the code 125 and 148 rail used in their flex track.  As expected, R-O-W rail works great with R-O-W castings - minimal filing to get the points and cast guard rails to nestle in to the turnout's stock rail.  A distant last place for appearance goes to Atlas/Roco due to the simulated European rail fasteners on the plastic ties, and a slightly odd rail cross section.

For  ease of track laying my first place goes to AtlasO.  The rail slides nicely in the ties making it very easy to lay the track to any line - straight or curved.  All my curves have transition easements and the natural flex of of the rail makes achieving this desirable visual feature a piece of cake.  For  tips on creating easements read John Armstrong's Creative Track Planning for Realistic Operation.   My practice is to stagger rail joints several inches for kink free curves - easy to do with free sliding rail.  Atlas/Roco flex track also has relatively free sliding rail.   As Tom Tee pointed out ME track's rail does not slide freely in the ties due to their manufacturing process, making it much more difficult to form to a uniform curve.  Weathered ME flex track is mis titled - it should be called straight track!   IMO from the track layin perspective ME is in third and fourth place.

 From a cost perspective ME comes in first, with old Atlas/Roco second.  AtlasO a distant third due to a series of price increases over the last 10 or so years.

 In building a large railroad (2400' of track, 120 turnouts) on a retirement budget, here are the approaches I used.  For hidden trackage I used Atlas/Roco flex track- much of which was bought second hand from friends and at shows like Strasburg.  For visible mainline track I did a bulk buy of AtlasO flex track at a significant discount from a reputable big name dealer.  The cases of track were drop shipped to me from AtlasO.  For totally straight track ( like leads off the turntable) I used ME.  For turnouts (other than some hidden AtlasO ones) I hand layed them using R-O-W castings and rail on Mt. Albert wood ties.  I've experienced little difficulty in mixing and matching the various brands of track. Variations in tie and rail color hasn't been an issue as before ballasting I spray the track with Rustoleum Camouflage Brown paint for a weathered appearance.

Selecting which way to go with trackwork is one of the bigger decisions one makes in building a railroad.  My recommendation is buy a few sections of each brand, test lay  a sample curve and see for yourself which you want to go with.  You can always find a place on the railroad to re-use the flex track you decide against.

 

I really enjoy reading posts like this!

When you mentioned spray painting the track with Rustoleum Camouflage Brown do you hit the entire track with it and then remove the paint from the top of the rail?

Thanks.   Great advice you give.  

The best way to do it is to spray it and then wipe the rails while the paint is wet and spray it outdoors if possible.  Work on a few sections at a time....it actually goes fairly quickly. 

For sectional track spraying it outdoors before laying it makes sense - but if laying flex track and hand built turnouts (like with R-O-W castings) I recommend spraying the track only after it is down for several reasons.

• To keep it clean for soldering feeders and rail joiners
• Rail joiners, soldered feeders, and the pre painted rail will show unpainted spots  once laid due to the sliding of the rail in the ties - you'll have to spray it again once in place to hit those bright spots
• Spraying it once  means you'll only have to clean the rail head only once

Don't forget the three foot rule, as in what does it look like/can you see when you are three feet away.

How much of those ties can you see after ballast is applied? Is an overall spraying necessary? Maybe a random touch with a brush might look better?

Whatever you do, make sure it pleases YOU!

I just finished a friends layout which included five cases of Atlas flex pre painted.  Absolute total nightmare.

Rail was stuck to the spike heads, too stiff to get a clean prebend with my rollers. 

Even after it was curved there were hundreds of blank spots where the spike heads  masked off the paint,  had to be resprayed anyway.  Can't slide a single rail for staggering ends.   All ends needed cleaning for any rail joiners and all rail joiners interiors were half sprayed, I just tossed them, Ugly!   Only good use was for straight track.

Sometimes projects are over thunk.

Boy it sure is nice to watch everyone hash this out before I make a single move!

It's great to learn what to do and what NOT to do.  

Thanks gentlemen.  

I used mostly ME weathered flex. Norm Buckhart suggested spraying rails with Blaster Dry Lube - bent very easily into curves after this application.  Affixed to the cork roadbed with caulk. Then wiped the dry lube powder off with soft cloth and painted. 

Gregg - Thanks or the dry lube tip.  I have a box of Duddy weathered flex that I've been reluctant to use.  Now I'll give it a try.

Gregg Laiben posted:

I used mostly ME weathered flex. Norm Buckhart suggested spraying rails with Blaster Dry Lube - bent very easily into curves after this application.  Affixed to the cork roadbed with caulk. Then wiped the dry lube powder off with soft cloth and painted. 

If you're gong to paint the track after installation anyway, is there any advantage to using weathered track instead of unweathered track?

ecd15 posted:

Gregg Laiben posted:

I used mostly ME weathered flex. Norm Buckhart suggested spraying rails with Blaster Dry Lube - bent very easily into curves after this application.  Affixed to the cork roadbed with caulk. Then wiped the dry lube powder off with soft cloth and painted. 

If you're gong to paint the track after installation anyway, is there any advantage to using weathered track instead of unweathered track?

I brush and weather the ties to lessen the even look of the brown plastic, not the rail itself.  Although, on the next layout, I will probably avoid flex track and hand lay weathered rail onto wooden times and avoid all of the issues. But, then there are the pesky 4 spikes per tie <g>.