WBB Ten-wheeler running characteristics

The answer to your question is found in Dale H's web site re: installing diodes to reduce starting speed. His site is referenced often on this forum - try using the search feature. Or he may have it listed in his profile.

Following Dale's instructions, I put two, three diode strings in my ten-wheeler. It starts at a creep when the track starts getting that 6v starting voltage. I started with four diodes, but found that three worked out better.

Good luck - Dale will get you where you want to go!

 I think you need at least 2 diodes each facing the opposite direction, I think may have blocked  power top the motor. Did it run in reverse only?

Yep Dale's web  site is the  place to go.

Thanks, guys, I found the website.  Owen - since you did this exact engine - did you put the diodes in the engine or tender, and what color wire is the one you installed them in?  Thanks, David.

I think its a really good running, smooth, slow speed runner right out of the box, at least if run on a ZW-L.  You didn't say what you were powering it with.  The three I ran did much better on the ZW-L than when I had the Z4k,

I will be glad to tell you the color of the wires into which I spliced the diodes. Only problem is, I will be out of town until Sunday. I did put the diodes in the tender. If I recall, one set went in each wire to the motor - one set allowed for reverse operation, the other for forward operation.

I am not sure I would trust wire colors - that can be changed on a whim of the manufacturer. I back traced the motor wires from the motor, through the connector and into the tender, using the continuity function on a multimeter. Then the cutting began!

I did make up the three-diode sets on the bench. I originally made them up with four diodes, but it required so much track voltage to get the loco up to a reasonable speed I became concerned about bulb life as well as the effect of higher voltage on the electronics. So I went back in and cut removed one diode on each side. Your engine may react differently. And four diodes was real tight anyway.

I think I got my diodes at Radio Shack, they are the same value that Dave uses.

You will have some bare conductors that will need to be insulated. I used strips of high quality electrical tape; you may have a better idea.

I will get back to you Sunday, maybe with a picture or two.

And in response to Lee's comments, I am running my layout with a post-war ZW without any problems.

No need to open it up - I think I figured out the answer.  I tried using the yellow wire in the tender, and bingo!  Instant improvement.  I have to pick up a few more diodes to get it where I want it, but this is the ticket.  Thanks again for the responses!  I'll try to post a video when done.

Interesting. Never had either of mine act in a way that you describe, even before I upgraded them to DC Commander (not Cruise Commander) boards.

I do run command almost exclusively, but I tested and ran both of mine in conventional with Lionel bricks and -both- an old Powermaster and TPC400. Not sure that I ran either

on my little Z-500-powered conventional test track. Slightly different wave forms?

Their slow-speed behavior led me to skip the $120 Cruise Commander and go with the $60 DC Commander. They both start very smoothly.

If different power sources are giving people different starting speeds, it would be interesting to post videos here.

Glad you got it figured out! Mine starts from dead stop to a creep creep at about 6.5v - no jump at all.

I just got another loco this week.....my 4th WbB 4-6-0.......

Using the train set transformer wired to the 0-16 volts terminals the loco started slow and ran super smooth even though I have not taken it to the workshop and lubed it yet.

Will be repainted.....

I'm currently using the WBB ten-wheeler to pull a five car passenger car train. Three MTH 64' cars, and two LaBelle 60' cars on MTH 2-rail trucks. I'm using a modern Lionel ZW with three 180 bricks, and the train is running on straight and level Atlas track with O-36 curves. It will run as slow as the MTH h-3 2-8-0 with cruise control I run on the upper loop. No modifications have been performed on the Williams engine. It's been a great running engine for me.

Success!  I ended up going with two rows of three diodes, like Owen suggested, and am completely happy with the results.  Here it is running light:

 Before:

After:

Now that’s a better starting speed!  Pretty impressive for no cruise control - just goes to show what a good gear ratio can do.  It'll still go much faster than I need it to.  In these videos it was powered by a Z4000, although I had similar results with a CW-80.  The owner’s manual does say it should be powered with a pure sine wave.  In any case, it’s not a bad improvement for about $1 in parts.  Now that I’m happy with how it runs, it’s going to have all of its cast-in detail ground off and replaced with brass parts.  Different tender, too.  Stay tuned for a thread on that in the coming months!

AMCDave,

IMHO The red/black with the reflective stripe looks good. The green has a short life span in my book. I'd like to see what your final color choice would be.

I have that same engine, the Christmas version, and mine is smooth starting. My only gripe is the smoke unit died within an hour.

Rob

I have the Lakeshore Limited set. Had it for about 6 months now. This may or may not help, but when I first start running it, I put in 7 drops of JT's. I wait for the smoke output to diminish, then add 6 drops. I'll do this as long as I'm running the engine. I wait for the smoke output to diminish before I stop running for the day. The smoke unit output is every bit as good as my MTH H-3, although it doesn't puff. I've never put any other brand of smoke fluid in it.

This is the first Williams engine that I've operated this way. All the other's I've ruined the smoke unit within weeks. My fingers are crossed hoping this is the solution for the Williams smoke unit.

49Lionel, glad the diodes worked out for you. We were both after slow starts - the diodes do the trick.

As you pursue this project, consider shortening the engine draw bar. I was able to get mine so the distance between the cab and tender decks is 11/16". Had to widen the slot for the "umbilical cord" so it will swing through O31 switches.

Keep us posted! I am interested in how you tackle the tender.

That is a very good result.  It was a good performer before and is a great performer now. 

Hi Lee - I have an off-topic question I just emailed you.

I think your best bet is to search the forum for info on this - there have been several posts comparing "pure" vs. "chopped" sine wave power sources.