WHAT'S UP WITH MTH?

You paid over $500 for an MTH diesel?

The diesel itself was around $439+ then the wheel changeover was about $40,then I had to pick up Indiana sales tax.

Al

Al, this is nothing new. Its been going on for decades. The catalog is only a suggestion. I think you can find the fine print with a disclaimer that the final product may differ from the catalog. FWIW MTH is not the only company that is guilty of this. One of the many reason I no longer pre order.

Pete

This is a special run scale wheel Wheeling & Lake Erie GP40 complete with fixed pilots that was done for Pat's Trains in Wheeling, WV. I added the Kadee 745's to this and the other 3 W&LE GP40's that I bought from Pat.

$370 plus shipping...for a special run that saw only 24 scale wheel models done. The other 3 that I bought were around $415 and that included shipping.

I believe all of my MTH Premier engines have the cab number on the box along with the product number. Checking those numbers against the product and cab number you ordered may give you more information about what went wrong. I am pretty sure everything Premier I have ordrered from MTH had a separate product number for each cab number.

With MTH Premier rolling stock (excluding multi car sets) each item has 2 road numbers which have the same product number. You can end up with the wrong road number on those. My LHS told me they had to order 2 cars for each item, so they let me pick which one I want. However, the last few years I have been ordering 2 of each rolling stock item, so no problems here.

I've pre-ordered everything since I got back in the hobby a few years ago. Not enough product being shipped has also gotten me a time or two and I am 3 rail, many less are made in 2 rail. One time I didn't get my engine until the 3rd run that MTH made. Another time it was the 2nd run. The rest have all been from the first run. I don't know what happens there, but it happens. My LHS is small and I wonder if that had something to do with it. I have no idea how they handle things when they don't get enough product?

Anyway, good luck with your engine numbers, hope you get things straightened out.

My new FTs were advertised and marked on the box as 3/2 conversion compatible but they are NOT. Old truck blocks were used so you can't swap wheels. They do it all the time...Lionel is no better.

Don't they have a return policy?  That should cover these kinds of glitches.

Changing road numbers and the like is far easier in 2-rail - I have no idea why.  All you need is paint and some decals.

They do have a return policy, and they most assuredly cover this type of glitch.  MTH in my experience is quite reasonable and understanding. Great customer service.  They had a similar issue with Orient Express passenger cars that were all advertised as having interior tables with lamps.  Only some sets came with them.  I know they took several returns.  Bottom line, Mr. Muffin or MTH expected you to fulfill your end of the bargain and pay the asking price.  Why shouldn't you expect them to fulfill their end of the bargain and deliver what you ordered?  Return it.  

I don't know what it is about those GP40s.....they get top dollar though.  I've been looking for one to kitbash into a GP40X but can't ever find one under $200

The cheapest I ever found 1 is $424.

Al Hummel

PIB,

Mr. Muffin presented his case which was, "I ordered the number you asked for stating MTH no longer makes multiple numbers",which I think is a line. I see 6412 on ebay now. I'd have bought it,but I needed someone to change the 3rl wheels over to 2 rl. They left the 3rl couplers on,so if MTH won't cover this glitch,I have to send the diesel back again to have the couplers changed over. 

What burned me was I SPECIFICALLY said I needed a diesel with a 6400 series number BEFORE ordering. That was his fault in my book.

Live & learn.

Thanks to all for your kind replys & help.

Al Hummel

AL,

It sounds like you made it clear to the seller exactly what you were looking for and that he must have seen the actual wrongly numbered item when it came in, given he proceeded to have the wheels changed?  And it sounds like he's now washing his hands of this, despite his role in cranking up the bill on something you made clear you did not want?  Sort of consistent with a few posts by reputable hobbyists over the last year or so that show a lack of him taking responsibility when real customer service is needed, after your credit card had cleared.  Yet, others think he's great.  To me, customer service is fundamental - and by this I mean, a guy who goes out of his way to locate something I want that's hard to find is working hard for the sale dollars; a guy who stands behind what he sold me has integrity.  For this reason, I'd never give this person my business. If you paid by credit card, then you may have some rights...

I tried to order a specific number on a CSX CW44AC it was #1 it was the Spirit of West Virginia. MTH had just put these out. I was not interested in the other two numbers they offered. When my dealer tried to order #1 MTH said they could not guarantee that number and whatever they sent was what you received so I passed. You never see that locomotive for sale. 

Mark Mcclung posted:

I tried to order a specific number on a CSX CW44AC it was #1 it was the Spirit of West Virginia. MTH had just put these out. I was not interested in the other two numbers they offered. When my dealer tried to order #1 MTH said they could not guarantee that number and whatever they sent was what you received so I passed. You never see that locomotive for sale. 

This is why MTH went to a single product number for each cab number. Hopefully, they will make Spirit of West Virginia again. This was 20-20011-1 from 2010. 

Here is a quick video I took of 2 of my GP40's pulling a grain piker...

CATNAP,

Thank you for the video!! NICE!!

I have 24 of the CSX 5204 cvd grain hoppers,4 of which I changed some numers on,2 I completely changed the entire number on. Also added conspicuity striping on. Have 12 of the CSX 4750s,most of which I either changed 1 digit of the car number on,or since the numbering I have is smaller than the Atlas number,I changed all the numbers eventually. I have 6 of the LN/Family Lines System 4750s,so I changed the letters to SCL as Family Lines had SCL&LN cars. I also restencilled 1 of these cars to SBD lettering as many were restencilled to SBD then later CSXT.

As a beginner,my numbering ISN'T professional,but I've seen lettering on Prototype cars that are worse than mine,so for now,I let some pass,thinking later on,I'll probably come back & redo some. Not bragging here.

Thanks again,

Al Hummel

Should have returned everything as step one and not wasted all the time and energy. 

I have to agree with that. There is no way, as a 2-railer now, that I would accept a 3-rail locomotive as a substitute. You paid extra for the scale-wheel wheelsets and were still left with swinging pilots and claw couplers.

CATNIP,

I ordered the 3 rail model after searching MANY LONG months to find a 2 rail scale version 1st to no avail. So 3 rail versions that can be converted to 2 rail was the only option. I forgot to tell Steve to remove the claw couplers to which he appologized guess that one was both our faults maybe just mine.

Thanks,

Al Hummel

Alan Hummel posted:

CATNIP,

I ordered the 3 rail model after searching MANY LONG months to find a 2 rail scale version 1st to no avail. So 3 rail versions that can be converted to 2 rail was the only option. I forgot to tell Steve to remove the claw couplers to which he appologized guess that one was both our faults maybe just mine.

Thanks,

Al Hummel

But,,,,,besides the claw electro-couplers, what are you going to do about the swinging pilots, the huge gap in the pilots for the claw, and the handrails that are too short at each step?

HOTWATER:

That's my problem. A GOOD O Scaler will modify the pilots to scale,but at this time I just will let them be, adding scale couplers & adjusting them to the correct height.

Al

Alan, all those things mentioned, the swinging pilots and short handrails, seriously take away from the look of a 2-rail model.  It's still 3-rail with all those issues present. I would convert those items if it was mine. 

still, all this anguish about a road number?  I bet mR. MUffin, had he known how important this was to you, would have advised a return, or fixed you up with someone with the minimal talent required to change the number?

it is time to go back to HO - there you can get almost anything you want without modifying wheelsets, couplers, etc.  Who knows - they may even have shelf couplers in HO.

MTH and Lionel speak with forked tongue. My bad experiences have taught me to SEE THE ACTUAL PRODUCT before I purchase it.  

Actually, the 4 axle units are the easiest to convert to fixed pilots as you don't need to worry about the inside turning radius of the side frames hitting the inner part of the pilot. The 2-and3-rail pilots are completely different on the inside. I would definitely give this some thought.  

Alan Hummel posted:

HOTWATER:

That's my problem. A GOOD O Scaler will modify the pilots to scale,but at this time I just will let them be, adding scale couplers & adjusting them to the correct height.

Al

Just check with MTH to see if they have any scale-wheel pilots for this model or any other GP40 or GP38-2 for that matter since the pilots for both models are the same. Then you would only need to get wire to run from the handrails to the pilot.

Jeff78RR

I confess I'm lost here. I was lead to believe that this wasn't a problem when I asked if converting a 3rail model over to 2 rail wheels would be an issue. I was told "no,I don't think this will be a problem since you're not using sharp radius curves."

I have,now,3 three rail models converted to 2 rail wheels. As far as operation,I thought coupler height was the only thing to be concerned about,now I'm concerned,no down right worried.

Al

Alan Hummel posted:

Jeff78RR

I confess I'm lost here. I was lead to believe that this wasn't a problem when I asked if converting a 3rail model over to 2 rail wheels would be an issue. I was told "no,I don't think this will be a problem since you're not using sharp radius curves."

Sorry to be blunt but, in my opinion you did NOT research this project fully. When changing a model of a 3-Rail locomotive to 2-Rail operation, it is generally much more involved then just changing the wheel sets, in order to have a prototypically correct model.

I have,now,3 three rail models converted to 2 rail wheels. As far as operation,I thought coupler height was the only thing to be concerned about,now I'm concerned,no down right worried.

Al

Jeff78rr:

I got this advice as a beginner years back upon entering O Scale & accepted this as fact,trusting noone would advise me wrong.

Al

Jeff78:

So sorry didn't notice this was from HOT WATER. REALLY AM SORRY. 

Al

Personally, I do NOT believe anybody "advised you wrong". The combination of you not asking enough, nor the right, questions, got you incomplete answers. 

HOT WATER:

Sorry,got this advise upon entering O Scale as a beginner,a learner trusting what I was advised, as I was grasping at all knowledge,kind of like a dying man grasping for water in the desert.

As far as being "prototypically correct," well many things don't hit that nail on the head. As I advance,I hopefully will get more time & money to make these improvements,now I'm trying to get the basics up & running. One day it's benchwork,next day trackwork,another changing car numbers,sometimes a combination of all the above.

Al Hummel

HOT WATER,

Well that's your opinion you're entitled to that. 

Al Hummel

Alan Hummel posted:

........ I'm trying to get the basics up & running. One day it's benchwork,next day trackwork,another changing car numbers,sometimes a combination of all the above.

 

Seems like a good plan to me - do what works for you and make yourself happy.  A good bit is learn by doing and getting experience, and just trying stuff. 

I suspect that a measurable bit of advise from here comes incomplete naturally. 

"I've seen lettering on Prototype cars that are worse than mine"

I'm sure you have! NS had at least one entire train of grain hoppers that looked like they were lettered and numbered by a sloppy drunk!

PAUL ROMANO posted:

MTH and Lionel speak with forked tongue. My bad experiences have taught me to SEE THE ACTUAL PRODUCT before I purchase it.  

Read the above again, and take heed. Don't buy it unless you see it. There are tons of stuff on the secondary market, a lot of it new in the box. Everything I own, I acquired that way. Have a little patience, and above all don't accept something you don't want.

Simon

catnap posted:

This is a special run scale wheel Wheeling & Lake Erie GP40 complete with fixed pilots that was done for Pat's Trains in Wheeling, WV. I added the Kadee 745's to this and the other 3 W&LE GP40's that I bought from Pat.

$370 plus shipping...for a special run that saw only 24 scale wheel models done. The other 3 that I bought were around $415 and that included shipping.

Hi is the 745 Kadee you've used a more scale coupler?

I would say it is.

I have only been back in the hobby a few years now but it is interesting to me how the LHS washes their hands after the sale with some exceptions.  I had purchased my first Premier Diesel a few years ago but the center rail pick ups did not always make contact on my fastrack but worked fine on the MTH track at the dealer.  After measuring the center rail and upsetting my wife due to my frustration and $'s spent I figured it out but the Hobby store was no help.  I think part of this is my fault as shopping on line resulted in so many hobby stores with trained technicians going out of business.  I now make it a point to visit the train store in Oberlin Ohio.  If they go out of business I will be forced to buy on line almost exclusively.