ZW conundrum

Aldovar posted:

Hi all,

I have a ZW conundrum that I need some advice with:

I purchased a ZW(R) at stellar price knowing that it was probably going to need a bit of work. I took it to my repair guy and he put new rollers in it for me and said everything looked ok. Meter was showing 20 across the board at full throttle, and whistle showing appropriate increase in voltage. It buzzed a lot more than my V but I figured that was ok.

I put a train on and immediately circuit breaker popped in the ZW. Took everything off the layout and everything looked fine. Put another engine on and Red light.

I unplugged and opened and found that the wire for the breaker was loose (haven't tried soldering it) the common strip had come away from the terminals. 

So, I guess here is my conundrum:

1. Do I hazard the work myself? New breaker, new common strip/terminals, while I'm at it, two whistle solenoids and epoxying the stack for the buzz? I figure about 30 bucks worth of parts + my time and possibly screwing up?

2. Sell it for a project or see if I can do a trade + cash for a refurbed one?

3. Take it to another repair place and have them do it. 30 + ?

Right now with the ZW(R), shipping, and the rollers, I'm in at 95 dollars for the ZW.

Thoughts or suggestions?

Your repair guy should have found the loose wires or loose common copper strip in the ZW. I would take it back and tell him it still don't work right and see what he says or repair it yourself if possible.

Lee Fritz

I think that folks who are very comfortable around household line voltage, and have a good working knowledge of electricity can service their own transformers.
But since household line voltage is present, it would be best for folks who are less familiar to leave the work to the professionals.
Repairing your issue with the common buss bar detaching from the terminals is straightforward. The terminals that are not connected are broken. The fix is to remove the terminals and replace them. There are repair terminals available that have threads on both ends, and are simply bolted in place.

Your other issue(s) are more complex. If you have a loose wire, there is the question of where it goes. It almost certainly would need to be soldered back to the proper location.  So you would need to be able to make a good solder joint. (Many of the home done soldering jobs I've seen are horrible)

I am not familiar with a transformer part called a  "whistle solenoid".  I wonder whether you mean the rectifier disks. Some folks like to change them, even when they are fine. I only replace them if they are bad. But if you are running modern trains, I've read reports that the modern trains work better if you replace them with modern equivalents.

If your breaker opens with minor loads, then it probably needs replacing. Not a difficult job, but soldering is required.  But with that stray (loose) wire, who knows what is going on?

You can read up on servicing Lionel ZW transformers, and then decide whether you have the required skills. If you are uncertain, don't take a chance, have someone else evaluate and repair the transformer.  The last thing you want to do is accidentally introduce house voltage into your layout through a wiring mistake.

Here is a link to the manual pages on the ZW (R).
You should also read the pages on the ZW.

Thanks @cw burfle,  

I've read through those as well as this site:
http://www.tranz4mr.com/Welcome.html

I'm pretty comfortable with wiring and electric, well by comfortable, I have a healthy respect for it, but know how to work around it. I'm also pretty good with soldering. 

A lot of your recommendations are why I feel like I'm not sure what to do.

@phillyreading

Getting up there is the challenge, he's a good guy, I just work M-f 8-5. 

Ohh and @C W Burfle I meant the Whistle Diode. :-) I was thinking of something else.

Hi all here are the two trouble areas.

Loose wire.. I am guessing that is the breaker? Should be able to solder it back on?

Loose common. Order repair lugs?

Sorry for the late reply.

Thanks for the reply, I'll order those parts and keep you updated. I haven't had a moment to really dig into it yet unfortunately.

While we are on the subject of ZWs, can you people direct me to ZW repairs in posts from years ago? Or tell me how to search them on the Forum. I need to replace the carbon rollers also, and not sure how this is done. My repair book doesn't tell you much. Thanks.

I've replaced a lot of the studs, but I just use the old thumb-nuts with the new stud.  To remove them, I just drill them out.  Of course, frequently you can just wiggle the old one and it'll pop out, the crimps were pretty anemic on those. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've replaced a lot of the studs, but I just use the old thumb-nuts with the new stud.  To remove them, I just drill them out.  Of course, frequently you can just wiggle the old one and it'll pop out, the crimps were pretty anemic on those. 

Thanks GRJ, I appreciate the information. Mine look like they shoulddn't take too much persuasion to remove.

Just be patient when you are removing the old binding posts.
Often the body of the binding post inside the hole is distorted during the assembly process, and is somewhat wedged in the hole. This impedes removal.

Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

While we are on the subject of ZWs, can you people direct me to ZW repairs in posts from years ago? Or tell me how to search them on the Forum. I need to replace the carbon rollers also, and not sure how this is done. My repair book doesn't tell you much. Thanks.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...25#39722752645609425

THANKS to all for responding to my post about the ZW rollers etc. I am confident I will be able to do the work myself once I get the parts.

Thanks again.

Here's how I replace the rollers, very quick job with no major disassembly needed.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...17#39722753045125517

The old ZW was great in it's day.  By today's standards it is very under powered.  If you run old trains it is great as it was dependable.  One great thing about the ZW is the fact it can be rebuilt many times and is very easy to work on.

Hi all,

Just wanted to give an update on this thread and the ZW. With the help of some parts from PLCProf, I was able to fix and replace not only the commons but the breaker. All worked, no immediate faults or problems. Correct voltage on all the handles. However, the "Buzz" remained. It sounded worse than a pair of hair trimmers.

I eliminated all of the potential loose things, making sure everything was buttoned up properly and the buzz was still there. I decided to follow the instructions found here http://www.tranz4mr.com/ZW_Type_R_Hum_Fix.html and it worked great.

I just put everything back together and it is as quiet as a mouse. It is even quieter than my V and R transformers. Checked the outputs. 20 Volts on all handles. Looks like I am good to go.

Just wanted to thank you all for the information and help and hope that I can return the favor in the future.

I am guessing you corrected the buzz by re-epoxying the solid core.

Jim