027 not to scale

O-27 Was designed to run on tight (27" diameter) curves and for lower production costs.  'Selective compression' was freely used.

All of that said, if you want scale sized models, in Lionel look for the designation 'Full O scale', in MTH look for Premier or Railking Scale.  The Railking Imperial is generally close to scale size and can mix pretty well.

Most Atlas and Weaver products are generally scale.

There are others out there and you will pay a little more for the scale stuff.

Hope this helps and keep the rails polished.

It is my understanding that the MTH Rail king line is semi-scale.I buy all scale equipment.I am leary of Lionel rolling stock because there are to many versions.It gets confusing.At least to me.Nick

O-27 serves a very important part of our hobby. For most young people, it's is their first introduction to O-Gauge.

The beauty of our hobby is it serves all interests within this scale. So just stick with scale equipment and accessories and you will have what you like.

Not all Railking stuff is semi-scale. A good majority of it is of course but there are quite a number of old Premier Scale items that have been "demoted" to the Railking line. Lots of nice product out there. MTH has put a lot of effort into sprucing up the Railking product line in recent years. 

RailKing is not scale-proportioned unless it says "Scale" on the box. 

There are a few exceptions in their rolling-stock lineup (models of prototypes that were small-ish to begin with like ore cars), but it you're prone to being confused by this stuff, you'll be better off not trying to memorize them till you've gained enough experience to be comfortable comparing prototype dimensional data with similar-looking models.

---PCJ

I think there are some things you need to consider when you are talking scale and what you want. Full scale would mean the model is dead set on a true 1/48 proportion, which means the wheels would scale up to the same dimensions as the prototype (so for example, a 4' diameter wheel, would be 1" on an O gauge engine). One thing to keep in mind is almost all the equipment you buy that we call scale has compromises on it, in 1/48 scale details you could see on the prototype are invisible, and some compromises are made to allow running the engines on even the wider curves in the O gauge world. You may want things to be as close to the perfect scale as possible, and people have given you some good advice on that, if that is your thing.

On the other hand, you may simply want equipment that when you look at it, doesn't show any glaring mismatches, the equipment and such looks reasonable when on the same layout. A lot of the 027 equipment that has been built, for example, is closer to S scale (1/64) than O, and if you put it in a train that is otherwise scale, it would look pretty bad. However, that doesn't mean that anything you buy that is non scale or semi scale will be that glaringly off. Some non scale stuff is darn close in size to scale, it could be that the compromises involve are things like the wheel size or the flanges (for example, semi scale stuff routinely has blind drivers on steam engines). An Engine could be a scale 1' too short to be truly called scale (in other words, if the prototype was 65 feet long, and if you scaled the model up it would be 64), but in O that is a 1/4" too short....even if it is an inch too short (4' scaled up), would you really notice? Compare that to the (wonderful) stuff RMT puts out, which is obviously not scale and if you put it next to scale equipment, would be obvious.

Another thing to watch out for is that with scale engines, they also may say something is not scale if the detail is not up to scale standards. In other words, an engine or a box car might be close to scale dimensions, that you would need a ruler to see how it varies from 'true', but because the details are not as fine, they classify it as semi scale when in reality, it is not as detailed (note, this is not a rule, how things are classified as scale are up to the manufacturers, one may consider it scale if the dimensions are right and the wheels and such are scale, but isn't as detailed, another might classify that same engine as semi scale).

With track, it really comes down to how you see it. Obviously, 027 tinplate and O tinplate is not even really near scale, and the various track types (gargraves, Atlas, MTH) have their own pluses and minuses, it comes down to what you want. MTH scale trax is supposed to be closest to the 'real' thing, though people say it has too few ties, Atlas makes great track but that has flaws, Gargraves rail is great stuff but the ties are a bit big and the rail is not totally accurate, etc.......

In the end, it really comes down to what you are looking for, if you want prototypical accuracy as much as possible, want it to be close to the 'real thing' as possible, then by all means stick with the stuff that says "scale". On the other hand, if you simply want stuff that is pleasing to your eye, then when buying stuff look at the dimensions (if buying online), make a paper template of it (so if an engine and tender are 17" long, and are 3" tall or a boxcar is 7 long by 4.5" high, make templates of those) and see how it would look against stuff you have that you are happy with. If you go to a train show, see how it compares to other equipment in the area, or at a hobby shop and decide if it fits your idea. In general, other than small protypical engines and small prototypical cars, things that will run on o27 track are likely to look out of place when matched against scale equipment. Some o27 runners, like the F3's from the 1950's postwar, are big enough that they might not look bad against scale equipment, but in general things that are 027 compatible are likely to be smaller and compressed. The nice part about this hobby is unless you happen to run across the rivet counters who have this bug up their tail telling everyone else that unless they are true to scale fidelity, if you like the way it looks, that is cool (similar thing with the gearheads obsessed with original parts and numbers matching; while that is a big thing in the collectible market, that doesn't mean the person who loves the car and doesn't mind putting in a modern crate engine or disk brakers or rack and pinion steering on a muscle car is wrong, either).

In terms of scenery, that is pretty easy, if scratchbuilding do it to 1/48 (1/4" to the foot) and when buying building kits or fully built structures, see the dimensions and see if it appears to fit into a typical O scale scene (so if you buy a 4 story office building, that in real life would be roughly 50 feet tall, and it is let's say 8" tall in O, it is't scale). Most of the building kits out there made for O , whether aimed at the scale market or at O gauge three rail are going to be roughly to scale at worst, there are obviously compromises but there aren't the limits caused by having to run on tight radii. There are exceptions, many of the accessories Lionel and others produced were oversized (the gateman that is 15' tall!), or undersized, but in terms of structures most these days if they say O are going to work just fine IME.Again, nice part about this is we decide which is right, and which is an illusion.

O27 is dying, if not already dead.  Most trains newly designed in the last 10 years (including those meant for train sets) are engineered for a minimum of O31 or O36.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned "selective compression."  This means that sometimes the height and width are scale (or even greater than 1:48), while the length was reduced to facilitate operation on sharp curves.  Selective compression also has to do with WHERE the changes were applied-- for example the boiler may be shorter, but the locomotive cab and smokebox could be scale-sized.  That's why certain semi-scale locos might look odd sitting on the track side-by-side.

To my eyes, none of the recent "semi-scale" engines are as tastefully compressed as Lionel's were in the postwar era.  It seems like MTH, K-Line, and even some of the newer Lionels like the Mikado Jr. are just S-scale models riding an O-gauge chassis.  Meanwhile the Postwar Lionels manage to give a charming impression of what the prototype looks like compressed through an artist's brush or a long telephoto lens.  Opinion of course, but I love real trains and spend a fair amount of time looking at photos.  Or maybe it's because these are the trains I grew up with.  Too bad they generally don't run as well as the more recent offerings.

One more thought... there are a few full-scale locos (switchers mostly) that by virtue of their size, can negotiate O27 track.  (There's a thread about the Pennsy PRR A-5 0-4-0 active on the forum right now.)  Variety might be limited, but if you're concerned about fidelity to scale, that's another way to go.  My $.02, good topic!  -Ted

Swank,

   As many are advising 027 engines & rolling stock were never meant to be scale O Gauge items, 027 was meant to be an introductory type train for the family.

If you really want great Scale O Gauge, take a good look at the Atlas O, Steam Era Master Series rolling stock, some seriously cool stuff and very detailed.  Lots of Atlas's special run Scale rolling stock is extremely nice.  You will however pay for it, not much of it around for under $45.00 even used.  The (WAG) Wellsville, Addison & Galeton RR Box Cars, I just picked up during the Christmas season, are a good example of the Atlas Steam Era Quality.

PCRR/Dave 

Remember this Atlas rolling stock comes in both 3 rail & 2 rail trucks and couplers, you will need to order specifically what type you want, for your individual layout.

As others have said, RailKing does have scale items, RailKing Scale. RK scale may be engines only, I don't think there is such a thing as RK Scale rolling stock, at least I have never seen any???

I totally agree about the Lionel rolling stock, I can't tell either so I don't buy a lot of it, usually only operating cars for my grandson. They also have very little in my chosen road name. It would be nice if Lionel would at least mark their boxes with 'Traditional' or something like MTH has done with RailKing and Premier.

This will keep you scale with locos and rolling stock.

With regard to accessories and buildings, Plasticville and some traditonal Lionel and Marx stuff are generally smaller than scale, and you need to check every case.  Ameritown kits, Woodland Scenics buildings, and many others are scale.  

Most vehicles available are 1:43 (cars and light trucks) and 1:50 (big trucks, construction equipment).  These work out well (the 1:43 cars and light trucks work out better than 1:48 - small cars and trucks need to be just a tad bigger to look good, in my opinion).  1:50 big trucks look okay.  

O-27 issuper cool stuff.  I know from experience (age seven) that with O-27 you can build a layout on a board that will slide completely under a single bed, for a kid whose room isn't much larger than the bed.  Whatever limitations and unrealistic looks it may have, that alone guarantees that I will always love O-27.  May it be with us always.

On the other hand, I don't have anything tighter than 0-36 on my layout, and only a little bit of that . . . 

Lee,

    If a person knows how to plan correctly a lot of engineering can be done on a 4x8 with 027.

PCRR/Dave

Notice both the old Lionel 027 & the old K-Line 027 switches on this Complex Christmas layout

O-27 is fun. Not every one has room for full O scale. The cool thing is, most people that visit your house and see your trains will never know it's not true O scale unless you tell them!