2018 S Gauge Baldwin

After watching the R&D show, an interesting point was that the new Baldwin’s will have a redesigned fuel tank and sound like the new GPs have.  This is not mentioned in the catalog but was confirmed by Ryan and Dave.  

Ben

NASG&CASG
Original Post

The Baldwin switcher is a sentimental favorite of mine because it was the first real product I bought when I was a kid. It never ran well. In the eighth grade I cut off end railings from a Lionel caboose to screw onto the front and rear to make it look more realistic--my first kit bash. When I got back into modeling much later, I replaced the motor with one of Doug Peck's Port Lines Hobby Supplies can motor conversions and added railings I fashioned out of brass wire. It runs better, but not well. It is still a favorite anyway. The new Lionel American Flyer versions will work far, far better than the old Gilbert models.BaldwinBaldwin T&P front

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banjoflyer posted:

Yeah I keep looking at that Patapsco engine and it sure looks neat! However, what with the 30 million SHS switchers I own I really don't need another switch engine! Mark

You know the answer to that. Of course you need one! 

RoyBoy

Wow, two motors in the Baldwin, should be a piece of cake to put two in the GPs now. Lionel keeps me coming back for more

Ray

Rayin"S" posted:

Wow, two motors in the Baldwin, should be a piece of cake to put two in the GPs now. Lionel keeps me coming back for more

Ray

Nope, no two motors for the GP, see below from the GP7 thread:

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Rusty Traque posted:

Which begs the musical question:  Will the new Baldwin switchers have two motors or is it a typo?  Seems odd the smaller Baldwin's could fit two motors but not the GP's.

 

Not a typo. Much wider shell. Plus the out-pour of requests for two motors in the GP made me design the switcher to have two. Just can't do it in the GP.

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

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Guess that shoots my theory for a GP20...

--Rusty

35C4AC74-86B5-475D-829F-B611AC77FD4BHummm....

Flyonel has done some Alaska rolling stock over the years, which I have and have kept (I spent several weeks in AK over the years and have ridden on the Alaska railroad).  This would be a cool way to make a AK train!

picture from the Bowser website  

Also just kinda thinking out loud...there is a Wabash caboose in the catalog, but I can’t remember the last time Lionel made an S Gauge Wabash loco.  According to Wikipedia The Wabash had Baldwin switchers, but I can’t find any pictures of one on google.  Maybe there will be a Wabash Baldwin in V2. 

Ben

 

NASG&CASG

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NotInWI posted:

Also just kinda thinking out loud...there is a Wabash caboose in the catalog, but I can’t remember the last time Lionel made an S Gauge Wabash loco.  According to Wikipedia The Wabash had Baldwin switchers, but I can’t find any pictures of one on google.  Maybe there will be a Wabash Baldwin in V2. 

Ben

 

Well, there was the NS/ Wabash Heritage SD70 in 2014.

From what I could find, these were the Wabash Baldwins:

Wabash switchers were monochromatic very dark blue or black, therefore I would expect there will be a Flyer Wabash GP7/9 coming.  Either that, or a rerun of these:

Rusty

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Horseshoe hits on a point I was wondering earlier, it seems Lionel (post war to MPC) never did one in O Gauge. I know MTH has, but I wonder if Lionel always looked at the Baldwin as “flyer territory”.  

It is kinda Gilbert iconic I guess.  

Ben

NASG&CASG
NotInWI posted:

The Wabash had Baldwin switchers, but I can’t find any pictures of one on google.  Maybe there will be a Wabash Baldwin in V2. 

Ben

 

The Wabash did have S-12 switchers numbered 305-309.

Here's a picture of a Stewart HO model of one in what appears to be very dark blue:

OK, now I'm mad. Looking on the Bowser website I find this image for a Katy S-12:

THAT'S THE ONE I REALLY WANT!!!! Even if the S-12's on the Katy never had that paint scheme their NW-2's did. And the chances of getting an NW-2 out of MTH are ZERO. So if I have to bend the "accuracy" rules I DON'T CARE. Atlas O proposed this scheme last year and I immediately ordered one and then THEY CANCELLED IT!

So Dave Olson...paint this Katy scheme and I'm in for one...no wait...TWO of these Baldwins. I know...if you "pair" them like the AA sets in O scale they can run like prototypical switchers do...

(Sorry Ben for screaming on your post answer but I REALLY want that paint scheme!)

Mark

 

 

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banjoflyer posted:
NotInWI posted:

The Wabash had Baldwin switchers, but I can’t find any pictures of one on google.  Maybe there will be a Wabash Baldwin in V2. 

Ben

 

The Wabash did have S-12 switchers numbered 305-309.

Here's a picture of a Stewart HO model of one in what appears to be very dark blue:


 

 

Ooops.  Missed them when I copied the roster from the Wabash RR Historical society:

Rusty

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On some Facebook sites there has been suggestions that these Baldwins will not have space for a speaker because of two motors.  They are right that the 2018 catalog does not mention sound in the description for these engines like it does for others.   Has anybody heard from Lionel that sound will be or not be in these locomotives?

Dave Olson, one more thing. In the Ryan and Dave American Flyer video you mention the addition of sound and a newly tooled fuel tank for the AF Baldwins. Would it be possible to add some railings to these engines? That doesn't look like too pricey of an addition and these engines look far better with the prototypical railings:

This  vs this

 

Also, what is the possibility of making a Baldwin switcher "set".....?

That is a pair of Baldwin S-12's that would be operated as a "pair" of engines similar to the operation of a AA unit pair as in the LionChief + line on the O gauge side? The engines could include a DPDT switch on the bottom which would determine the initial starting direction of the engine. One engine would start in "forward" and the other in "reverse" and both would respond to the remote signal at the same time just like the real switcher pairs do. Here's a picture of one configuration and a "new" paint scheme I really want in the next run of these engines:

That "Katy" paint scheme has a lot going for it with the bright red color similar to the colorful Patapsco and Back Rivers  paint scheme. The real prototype was an EMD NW-2 but that paint scheme will look just as good on a Baldwin S-12 like the one on a Bowser HO engine shown.

Here's the EMD NW-2 in the "safety" paint scheme:

So Dave, would it be possible to offer a pair of FlyerChief engines that operate both singly and as a pair?

Thanks,

Mark

 

banjoflyer posted:

Dave Olson, one more thing. In the Ryan and Dave American Flyer video you mention the addition of sound and a newly tooled fuel tank for the AF Baldwins. Would it be possible to add some railings to these engines? That doesn't look like too pricey of an addition and these engines look far better with the prototypical railings:

Too late now. Would add to the cost of each unit plus stamping tools and modifying the frame.

 Also, what is the possibility of making a Baldwin switcher "set".....?

That is a pair of Baldwin S-12's that would be operated as a "pair" of engines similar to the operation of a AA unit pair as in the LionChief + line on the O gauge side?

So Dave, would it be possible to offer a pair of FlyerChief engines that operate both singly and as a pair?

Possible, yes. But that's Ryan's decision. I don't honestly see that being a huge seller either. Ryan is also the one who selects road names/paint schemes.

 

Rusty Traque posted:

Dave talked about the new fuel tank and speaker about 9 minutes into the video.

Here's a quick shot of the new fuel tank:

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

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banjoflyer posted:

Dave Olson, one more thing. In the Ryan and Dave American Flyer video you mention the addition of sound and a newly tooled fuel tank for the AF Baldwins. Would it be possible to add some railings to these engines? That doesn't look like too pricey of an addition and these engines look far better with the prototypical railings:

This  vs this

 

Also, what is the possibility of making a Baldwin switcher "set".....?

That is a pair of Baldwin S-12's that would be operated as a "pair" of engines similar to the operation of a AA unit pair as in the LionChief + line on the O gauge side? The engines could include a DPDT switch on the bottom which would determine the initial starting direction of the engine. One engine would start in "forward" and the other in "reverse" and both would respond to the remote signal at the same time just like the real switcher pairs do. Here's a picture of one configuration and a "new" paint scheme I really want in the next run of these engines:

That "Katy" paint scheme has a lot going for it with the bright red color similar to the colorful Patapsco and Back Rivers  paint scheme. The real prototype was an EMD NW-2 but that paint scheme will look just as good on a Baldwin S-12 like the one on a Bowser HO engine shown.

Here's the EMD NW-2 in the "safety" paint scheme:

So Dave, would it be possible to offer a pair of FlyerChief engines that operate both singly and as a pair?

Thanks,

Mark

 

Mark, You are a pretty handy guy, seeing what you have done with some of your projects. I can see you adding that switch to one of a pair of these locomotives, it would just reverse the wires to the motors, I would do the same with a pair of Milwaukee Road Baldwins.

Ray

Rayin"S" posted:
I can see you adding that switch to one of a pair of these locomotives, it would just reverse the wires to the motors, I would do the same with a pair of Milwaukee Road Baldwins.

Ray

Hi Ray,

Yes it would be easy to do (except for the whole "void the warranty" thing). You would have to wait for the warranty to run out to protect yourself. The other thing about a pair of engines would be the different numbers on the shells. It would look silly to have two engines with the same number. But with the FlyerChief engines being "One engine-One remote" to operate a pair  of engines with one remote they would have to operate with the same "address" so the remote could "see" them. Right now that only happens with "paired" sets like the O gauge AB sets. Paired engine sets (both powered) have to be designed that way.

Dave Olson thinks there would be limited interest in offerings like this . Maybe so. But if they develop any passenger AA units for sale in the FlyerChief line (think Texas Special Alco AA sets) with both units powered or even resurrecting the "B" units I think there would be a market for them. The start direction switch would be a cheap and easy addition to pairs of engines so they could be operated individually or paired tail end to tail end like most AA sets.

A lot of operators would like both units powered to pull longer passenger or freight trains. And that all leads back to the sale of paired switcher sets, so.........

Mark

 

In watching the Ryan and Dave show on Lionels Facebook page today I asked if there will be a sample of the Baldwin at York. Dave displayed a unpainted sample for the camera and stated it will be running at the York train show. Maybe we will get some close pictures of the underside of it out of the show.  

It sounds like it isn’t on track.

Ben

NASG&CASG
NotInWI posted:

In watching the Ryan and Dave show on Lionels Facebook page today I asked if there will be a sample of the Baldwin at York. Dave displayed a unpainted sample for the camera and stated it will be running at the York train show. Maybe we will get some close pictures of the underside of it out of the show.  

It sounds like it isn’t on track.

Ben

The Baldwin looks pretty good. I ordered one in the colorful Patapsco and Black River paint scheme:

As you can see there are no railings on the engine front or rear. Dave said that would add too much cost to the engine. I'm thinking of ordering a set of Baldwin railings from American Models and adding them to the FlyerChief Model:

CPR S-12 - Click Image to Close

It won't be a perfect fit as the models differ a bit but with a little elbow grease the railings might be able to dress up the AF engine front and rear. The AF factory installed railing along the engine sides are a feature American Models doesn't offer so combining the two kinds of railings would look neat and then would resemble the actual engine as to the railings:

PBR 347

 

Mark

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I was looking at the Lionel shipping catalog today, and while I’m no detective (patrol officer actually) I think I can confirm there will be a Wabash Baldwin coming up.  

B9273286-B88E-4A1A-9758-8CE1D4595D47

644122.  

I wonder if it will have the white over blue paint scheme? 

Ben

NASG&CASG

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NotInWI posted:

I was looking at the Lionel shipping catalog today, and while I’m no detective (patrol officer actually) I think I can confirm there will be a Wabash Baldwin coming up.  

B9273286-B88E-4A1A-9758-8CE1D4595D47

644122.  

I wonder if it will have the white over blue paint scheme? 

Ben

Don't see why.  Wabash's switchers were painted in a very dynamic paint scheme:

 Lima Wabash 401 EMD 124

Rusty

(Personally, IMHO the GP would've been a better choice...)

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NotInWI posted:

I was looking at the Lionel shipping catalog today, and while I’m no detective (patrol officer actually) I think I can confirm there will be a Wabash Baldwin coming up.  

B9273286-B88E-4A1A-9758-8CE1D4595D47

644122.  

I wonder if it will have the white over blue paint scheme? 

Ben

Being a retired detective from the Scooby Doo gang I did a little more sleuthing...

That 6-44122 stock number was assigned to the PBR Baldwin switcher:

which is the one and only Baldwin I ordered. I sure hope Lionel hasn't pulled a switcheroo on me and substituted a Wabash Baldwin in lieu of the Patapsco engine....those colors are too neat to pass up.

Mark

Addendum....I just sent Dave Olson an email requesting info on the two different references to the same stock #. I'll report back if he replies.

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Mark

Anything is possible I guess, but I would think that Patapsco unit was a hit in preorders and is a go. My guess is there was a typo when the shipping schedule was written up. I think the Wabash unit is likely a given to go with the Wabash caboose that was listed in the 2018 V1 book.  On a few different videos I have seen with Dave and/or Ryan, they have talked specifically about that Patapsco Baldwin.  My guess, both will be happening.

Ben 

NASG&CASG
Rusty Traque posted:
NotInWI posted:

Well, it might not be prototypical, but I think the GP wabash paint scheme would be a better seller than....that....

Ben

No argument there...

vo1000_p2a Wabash

(Just a quicky artist conception...)

Rusty

A less rushed artist conception of "road paint" on a Wabash switcher:

vo1000_p2a Wabash II

Of course, whether Lionel does anything like this is on the Flyer Baldwin switcher is pure conjecture on my part...

Rusty

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OK fellas here's the skinny on a "Wabash" Baldwin switcher. There won't be one. The reference to one in the shipping schedule is a typo. The four that will be produced are those shown in the 2018 catalog. Here's the replies I received from Dave Olson and Ryan Kunkle:

I'm relieved that the PBR engine will be produced as cataloged. If you want a Wabash Baldwin now would be a good time to send suggestions to both Ryan and Dave for a "next" run of these engines. I'd include any artwork you desire. There's a good chance they'd produce a "fantasy" paint scheme as they did just that with the NS Baldwin.

Mark

 

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