Upgrading the Lionel 6-18009 NYC L3-A Mohawk?

Good morning,

There are a few things you can upgrade on this beautiful engine. It has a Pullmor motor

so you can do one of two things, you can leave the Pullmor motor and install ERR AC Commander. The engine will have full command control but will not have cruise control, or you can change the motor to a DC can motor and then install ERR cruise commander. Now the engine will have full command control and also cruise control. You can also add a Lionel 27 ohm fan driven smoke unit which can be powered with 18 volt track power. This engine with ERR is also a great candidate for Hennings/ Johns super chuffer.

 As for the sound you can add ERR large steam sounds to go with you ERR commander. As for the appearance i think she looks great just the way she is

Thanks,

Alex

I like the idea of changing out the motor for a flywheel can type.  Are there motor replacement kits from Lionel or other manufacturer for this type of engine? 

This is where it gets quite involved, there's really not any kits. You would have to retro fit a can motor into this engine, which is quite involved. I've done it a few times and i have posted full detailed threads about it, I tried to search for them but i can't find any of them.

I will try and search some more, and see if i can post it here

Alex

If you want to put a can motor in there, contact Frank Timko:

http://timkorepairdepot.com/Home.html

One other thing to consider. All of the Timko Pulmore replacements I have seen use the Mabuchi RS385, aka small can motor. K-Line used the same motor in all of their scale steam engines. My K-Line Hudson gets very warm just pulling 5 18" passenger cars. I wouldn't try and pull many more for any length of time.

All of the Lionel L2 Mohawks come with a large can motor and cruise as do the MTH and 3rd Rail L3/4 Mohawks. You might want to compare your investment in the Lionel L3 to trading for one of the others.

Pete

While we are close to the same subject, what is needed to put cruise into a 1998, 6-18064, Lionel L3-a Mohawk with RS 2.5 and TMCC?  This engine also has a Pullmor.  Like pro hobby's, it is a beautiful engine, but without cruise is not fun to run.

Thanks,

Stack

Stack, you'd need a DC motor and you'll be replacing the electronics as well.  That one has an older version of the R2LC and I don't believe it'll function with the Cruise Commander M DCDR replacement.  I'm guessing this is not cost effective.

You are right John, a shame, but just not worth the price of the upgrade.  Thanks for your prognosis!

Stack

Sell and pick up the Legacy version.  Probably the same price in the end, but you get a new locomotive with all the latest features.

gunrunnerjohn

Is this new Legacy Mohawk a NYC L3a Mohawk as was the earlier version?  To my knowledge the new Legacy NYC Mohawks are L-2 Mohawks; there is a very big difference between the 2 different versions.

Steve

Can Johns/Hennings super chuffer be synchronized with the sounds/chuffs????????

The whole point of the Super-Chuffer is to enhance the appearance of the smoke, and of course it is synchronized with the sounds.

From the comments it appears that I should put the engine on the shelf for display only and move on to later technology.

Unfortunately your right, upgrading it just does not make sense.

I always wanted an L3a with the smoke deflectors ... problem is the rebuild would really take some time and money...

It really comes down to how much time and effort you want to put into it. I have Commodore Vanderbilt with a similar setup. I knew I wouldn't be satisfied with the small Mabuchi motor and was hoping I could put a big Pittman in there. To do that would require redesigning the whole drivetrain as the gear box would have to moved up one or two axles. Maybe someday when I have nothing to do I may still try that but decided to put that project on the back burner.

Pete

As usual, I'm confused.

How happy would someone who runs in conventional-Bronze Age mode be with this locomotive?

is it a poor runner period, or are we strictly talking about the loco's unsuitability for command control?

Sorry about my naïveté, but I come from the 2-rail world, so I don't speak Lionel well at all...at the very least, my accent is atrocious!

Jeff C

Thumbs up if Lionel should redo the L-3A for Legacy!

But I agree, it all depends on how much time and effort you want to spend on an engine. It was a good idea to ask the guys on the forum, since it is their experiences to tell you what is good and bad of going through with something like this you're after. It shows how much important it is to do your homework.

I happen to have 6-18064 that I don't use or display.

Hi Jeff,

I rarely run mine because of no cruise control and this particular engine really speeds and slows, and my layout is fairly level.  Must be all about the drive train (gearing).  I have a post war set of the NYC ABA F units that run steady like a clock at very slow speed, so go figure!

Stack 

Some or all of the 18064s had a defective board as issued by Lionel. Lionel provided a replacement board. I have a 18064 with the replacement board and it is a good runner, as good as any non-cruise pullmor loco that I have. Without the new board, it was a total dog. I also connected the loco and tender pickup rollers with a #22 black wire so no more TMCC signal loss going over switches. My 18064 pulls eight of the Commodore Vandy heavies up a 3% grade with only minor wheel slip. Some shops may still have the replacement board.

Allan

The small can motor replacement bothered me at first, but the drive train has a very forgiving gear ratio. The motor does not get hot at all in my re-motored Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson.

Any idea where one can find a replacement board for the 18064 Mohawk?

A lot of great ideas, here!

Peter

Which board are you looking for

The board would be the one identified as item 37 in Alex's diagram. It comes without the two heat sinks, so you would use the heat sinks that are on the current board.

Allan

That board is listed as no longer available but you can use a ACDR, Lionel talk for TMCC motor driver board for an AC motor. You might have to get a newer R2LC radio board though. Another option would be an AC Commander from Electric Railroad.

Pete

The ACDR is probably a better bet, it'll have the same form-factor as the existing board.

Operational issues aside,  to me the early Mohawk seemed to lack much of the nice detailing that we have come to expect on our steamers. I would heartily recommend selling this one and picking up one of the much better recent versions. They are plentiful out there...

I agree with Sam. I had 18064 and sold it - a very temperamental engine, beautiful, but temperamental. 

The new ones with Legacy are outstanding!

I would follow the advise of some of the others here and sell it and buy the legacy unit. The 6-18009 was a problem from day 1. Not very well thought out.

Having started following this thread mainly out of curiosity, I now have exactly the same questions.

No one on this thread has reported any problems with the 18009. The problems were with the 18064. I have a 18009 and it is a good runner, as good as any Pullmor steam loco that I have. While it has less detail than the Lionel L2, the most obvious being the lack of valve gear, it projects a massiveness that the L2 does not. Also, it is one of the few Lionel steam locos that have a round boiler, others being the 18064 and the 4-8-4 NYC Niagara. The L2 has a very obvious U shaped boiler. I would like to see Lionel re-issue the 18009 and 18064.

Just to clear up, Lionel still shows this board as available.  It is an ACDR.  Additionally the 18064 used an R2LC R2IR.

I have both of these from an original engine if some one need the parts.

This engine used the IR harness.  I asked about the code difference, and I really could not get a straight answer about the R2LC.  This falls into that history thing, from the previous employees of Lionel.  Not much documentation.   G

Will the can motor from JOHN TIMKO work in the 18064?  How much do these motors cost?  Anyone know?  Also if you change the motor to a can motor can you get Cruise from ERR and put in these engines(18064)? Thanks.

Timko uses a common Mabuchi RS385. The motor is not expensive. Most of the cost is for the machine work to modify motor mount to accept the Mabuchi and likely a new coupling fit for the smaller motor shaft. Once the DC motor is installed you have a choice of electronics designed for DC motors including a DC Commander, Cruise Commander or Cruise Lite, not a Mini Cruise though.

As for gearmotors, if you search eBay you will find 1000s of them. Even the short gearboxes will add about 1/2" to the length though.

Pete

I don't think the Cruise Commander Lite is a candidate to be used with a locomotive like this.  I'd stick with the full Cruise Commander.  It would be somewhat pointless to use the DC Commander, why bother to change the motor at all?

Laz, as per gunrunnerjohn's response to my question to upgrading the 18064, it can be upgraded, but really wouldn't be cost effective considering all the components you'd need to purchase.  The irony is it being such a beautiful (IMHO) engine.  There are a ton of 18064's out there, and many folks have no problem running them once they've had the defective board swap (only impacting the 18064). I'm so spoiled with cruise control, I find it hard to enjoy some engines without it due to the speed fluctuations.  In this day and age, it's a shame no one can make a cost effective way to upgrade this type of scenario.

Stack    

Com'on John. You are using the Lite with two of these motors. One of these motors is what it was designed for. That engine could weigh fifty pounds and the motor will still not draw more than 2.5 amps unless it burns up.

Pete

Whatever blows your hair back...